12 Dec
2014
12 Dec
'14
2:01 p.m.
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 1:34 PM, David Keenan <dkeenan44(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Great strides have been made visavis debris and
garbage ending up outside,
and that is great. However, the newly-longer line of chairs chained up
outside the building, while useful of course, frankly is starting to look
too janky and an eyesore at this point.
In order to improve somewhat the outside appearance of our building and the
perception of neighbors, I would like to cut down on the number of outside
chairs. Basically, I think we should remove all but the bench and the
bare-metal chairs. IE, I think all the new white chairs should be removed.
It's just too much.
In addition, by the way, technically we do not have permission from the city
to put any seating outside. I've looked at our property line and its not
clear actually that it extends a few feet from the building. Even if it did,
there is an easement with the city's sidewalk that means they have control
over it.
I appreciate the doocratic effort to provide more outside seating, but can
we please remove these extra white chairs? Its overkill imo.
Ok so where are people supposed to sit then? Would they prefer we
sit/lie on the sidewalk instead?
12 Dec
12 Dec
2:32 p.m.
New subject: cut down on the # of outside chairs?
Maybe install a large folding bench onto the side of the building, like some
restaurants have.
On Friday, December 12, 2014 02:01:24 PM yar wrote:
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 1:34 PM, David Keenan
<dkeenan44(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Great strides have been made visavis debris and
garbage ending up outside,
and that is great. However, the newly-longer line of chairs chained up
outside the building, while useful of course, frankly is starting to look
too janky and an eyesore at this point.
In order to improve somewhat the outside appearance of our building and
the
perception of neighbors, I would like to cut down on the number of outside
chairs. Basically, I think we should remove all but the bench and the
bare-metal chairs. IE, I think all the new white chairs should be removed.
It's just too much.
In addition, by the way, technically we do not have permission from the
city to put any seating outside. I've looked at our property line and its
not clear actually that it extends a few feet from the building. Even if
it did, there is an easement with the city's sidewalk that means they
have control over it.
I appreciate the doocratic effort to provide more outside seating, but can
we please remove these extra white chairs? Its overkill imo.
Ok so where are people supposed to sit then? Would they prefer we
sit/lie on the sidewalk instead?
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss 
2:42 p.m.
New subject: cut down on the # of outside chairs?
Yea, yar - I'm not saying we have to do it, but honestly I've never seen
even the bench and metal chairs full (seating about six).. do you think we
need seating for 12?
I'm thinking, maybe why don't we see if we're ever running out of seating,
then return to the idea of adding more chairs, ie if that is needed.
I think the more chairs we add, the more likely we are to get a complaint
is all. And If we don't need em, I figure why put that risk out there.
On Friday, December 12, 2014, Torrie Fischer <tdfischer(a)hackerbots.net>
wrote:
Maybe install a large folding bench onto the side of
the building, like
some
restaurants have.
On Friday, December 12, 2014 02:01:24 PM yar wrote:
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 1:34 PM, David Keenan
<dkeenan44(a)gmail.com
<javascript:;>> wrote:
> Great strides have been made visavis debris
and garbage ending up
outside,
> and that is great. However, the newly-longer
line of chairs chained up
> outside the building, while useful of course, frankly is starting to
look
> too janky and an eyesore at this point.
>
> In order to improve somewhat the outside appearance of our building and
> the
> perception of neighbors, I would like to cut down on the number of
outside
> chairs. Basically, I think we should remove
all but the bench and the
> bare-metal chairs. IE, I think all the new white chairs should be
removed.
> It's just too much.
>
> In addition, by the way, technically we do not have permission from the
> city to put any seating outside. I've looked at our property line and
its
> not clear actually that it extends a few
feet from the building. Even
if
> it did, there is an easement with the
city's sidewalk that means they
> have control over it.
>
> I appreciate the doocratic effort to provide more outside seating, but
can
we please
remove these extra white chairs? Its overkill imo.
Ok so where are people supposed to sit then? Would they prefer we
sit/lie on the sidewalk instead?
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org <javascript:;>
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss 
3:01 p.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] cut down on the # of outside chairs?
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 2:42 PM, David Keenan <dkeenan44(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Yea, yar - I'm not saying we have to do it, but honestly I've never seen
even the bench and metal chairs full (seating about six).. do you think we
need seating for 12?
I'm thinking, maybe why don't we see if we're ever running out of seating,
then return to the idea of adding more chairs, ie if that is needed.
I think the more chairs we add, the more likely we are to get a complaint
is all. And If we don't need em, I figure why put that risk out there.
I propose doubling the number of chairs every day until we get a complaint,
then backing back down to the previous number.
On Friday, December 12, 2014, Torrie Fischer <tdfischer(a)hackerbots.net>
wrote:
Maybe install a large folding bench onto the side
of the building, like
some
restaurants have.
On Friday, December 12, 2014 02:01:24 PM yar wrote:
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 1:34 PM, David Keenan
<dkeenan44(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> Great strides have been made visavis debris
and garbage ending up
outside,
> and that is great. However, the newly-longer
line of chairs chained up
> outside the building, while useful of course, frankly is starting to
look
> too janky and an eyesore at this point.
>
> In order to improve somewhat the outside appearance of our building
and
> the
> perception of neighbors, I would like to cut down on the number of
outside
> chairs. Basically, I think we should remove
all but the bench and the
> bare-metal chairs. IE, I think all the new white chairs should be
removed.
> It's just too much.
>
> In addition, by the way, technically we do not have permission from
the
> city to put any seating outside. I've
looked at our property line and
its
> not clear actually that it extends a few
feet from the building. Even
if
> it did, there is an easement with the
city's sidewalk that means they
> have control over it.
>
> I appreciate the doocratic effort to provide more outside seating,
but can
we please
remove these extra white chairs? Its overkill imo.
Ok so where are people supposed to sit then? Would they prefer we
sit/lie on the sidewalk instead?
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss 
3:13 p.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] cut down on the # of outside chairs?
Just speaking personally, from the perspective of some one newly educated
on how easy it is for the "Neighborhood" (developers, business development
folks, city of oakland) to make life hard for us to continue (see 350% tax
increase just served us by the "Business Improvement District"), I suggest
we take the feelings of our neighbors (the people that live next to us)
very seriously.
I'd like our neighbors to be on our side and love that we are there. If
that means fewer chairs, or just being anal about straightening the chairs
all the time, that seems fair. I think erring on the side of being too
considerate to our neighbors is a good idea...
I do like the folding bench idea!!
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 3:01 PM, Marc Juul <juul(a)labitat.dk> wrote:
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 2:42 PM, David Keenan <dkeenan44(a)gmail.com> wrote:
--
•amgo•
Yea, yar - I'm not saying we have to do it, but honestly I've never seen
even the bench and metal chairs full (seating about six).. do you think we
need seating for 12?
I'm thinking, maybe why don't we see if we're ever running out of
seating, then return to the idea of adding more chairs, ie if that is
needed.
I think the more chairs we add, the more likely we are to get a complaint
is all. And If we don't need em, I figure why put that risk out there.
I propose doubling the number of chairs every day until we get a
complaint, then backing back down to the previous number.
On Friday, December 12, 2014, Torrie Fischer <tdfischer(a)hackerbots.net>
wrote:
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
Maybe install a large folding bench onto the side
of the building, like
some
restaurants have.
On Friday, December 12, 2014 02:01:24 PM yar wrote:
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 1:34 PM, David Keenan
<dkeenan44(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> Great strides have been made visavis debris
and garbage ending up
outside,
> and that is great. However, the newly-longer
line of chairs chained
up
> outside the building, while useful of
course, frankly is starting to
look
> too janky and an eyesore at this point.
>
> In order to improve somewhat the outside appearance of our building
and
> the
> perception of neighbors, I would like to cut down on the number of
outside
> chairs. Basically, I think we should remove
all but the bench and the
> bare-metal chairs. IE, I think all the new white chairs should be
removed.
> It's just too much.
>
> In addition, by the way, technically we do not have permission from
the
> city to put any seating outside. I've
looked at our property line
and its
> not clear actually that it extends a few
feet from the building.
Even if
> it did, there is an easement with the
city's sidewalk that means they
> have control over it.
>
> I appreciate the doocratic effort to provide more outside seating,
but can
> we please remove these extra white chairs?
Its overkill imo.
Ok so where are people supposed to sit then? Would they prefer we
sit/lie on the sidewalk instead?
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
3:22 p.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] cut down on the # of outside chairs?
Why not keep extra chairs stacked neatly somewhere just inside the door in
the event that we actually need extra seating?
I agree that all of those chairs are a bit overkill. Also, the cafe would,
at some point, like to apply for a permit for outdoor seating.
xo
N
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Amgo Go <littlebitagive(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Just speaking personally, from the perspective of some
one newly educated
on how easy it is for the "Neighborhood" (developers, business development
folks, city of oakland) to make life hard for us to continue (see 350% tax
increase just served us by the "Business Improvement District"), I suggest
we take the feelings of our neighbors (the people that live next to us)
very seriously.
I'd like our neighbors to be on our side and love that we are there. If
that means fewer chairs, or just being anal about straightening the chairs
all the time, that seems fair. I think erring on the side of being too
considerate to our neighbors is a good idea...
I do like the folding bench idea!!
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 3:01 PM, Marc Juul <juul(a)labitat.dk> wrote:
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 2:42 PM, David Keenan <dkeenan44(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
--
•amgo•
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
Yea, yar - I'm not saying we have to do it, but honestly I've never seen
even the bench and metal chairs full (seating about six).. do you think we
need seating for 12?
I'm thinking, maybe why don't we see if we're ever running out of
seating, then return to the idea of adding more chairs, ie if that is
needed.
I think the more chairs we add, the more likely we are to get a
complaint is all. And If we don't need em, I figure why put that
risk out there.
I propose doubling the number of chairs every day until we get a
complaint, then backing back down to the previous number.
On Friday, December 12, 2014, Torrie Fischer <tdfischer(a)hackerbots.net>
wrote:
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
Maybe install a large folding bench onto the side
of the building, like
some
restaurants have.
On Friday, December 12, 2014 02:01:24 PM yar wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 1:34 PM, David Keenan <dkeenan44(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> > Great strides have been made visavis debris and garbage ending up
outside,
> > and that is great. However, the newly-longer line of chairs chained
up
> > outside the building, while useful of course, frankly is starting
to look
> > too janky and an eyesore at this point.
> >
> > In order to improve somewhat the outside appearance of our building
and
> > the
> > perception of neighbors, I would like to cut down on the number of
outside
> > chairs. Basically, I think we should remove all but the bench and
the
> > bare-metal chairs. IE, I think all the new white chairs should be
removed.
> > It's just too much.
> >
> > In addition, by the way, technically we do not have permission from
the
> > city to put any seating outside. I've looked at our property line
and its
> > not clear actually that it extends a few feet from the building.
Even if
> > it did, there is an easement with the city's sidewalk that means
they
> > have control over it.
> >
> > I appreciate the doocratic effort to provide more outside seating,
but can
> > we please remove these extra white chairs? Its overkill imo.
>
> Ok so where are people supposed to sit then? Would they prefer we
> sit/lie on the sidewalk instead?
> _______________________________________________
> sudo-discuss mailing list
> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
3:48 p.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] cut down on the # of outside chairs?
This also raises again for me the issue of moving furniture into the
building with the assumption that everyone is going to be fine with it and
not having anyone be accountable for it.
I think, out of respect for all of us who share this space, decisions about
how shared space is used should be made collectively - that's not to say
that we have to have a collective meeting any time someone brings something
into the space but that there should be a contact person for large items
brought into the space and if people have objections and it's collectively
agreed that the item should go, the contact person can be responsible for
removing the item(s) in question.
I personally feel frustrated by the suggestion that we should all just be
happy with whatever junk people want to drop off here. (Probably because I
have made lots of dump runs throwing away a not insignificant amount of
said junk.)
Love,
Niki
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 3:22 PM, niki <niki.shelley(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Why not keep extra chairs stacked neatly somewhere
just inside the door in
the event that we actually need extra seating?
I agree that all of those chairs are a bit overkill. Also, the cafe would,
at some point, like to apply for a permit for outdoor seating.
xo
N
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Amgo Go <littlebitagive(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Just speaking personally, from the perspective of
some one newly educated
on how easy it is for the "Neighborhood" (developers, business development
folks, city of oakland) to make life hard for us to continue (see 350% tax
increase just served us by the "Business Improvement District"), I suggest
we take the feelings of our neighbors (the people that live next to us)
very seriously.
I'd like our neighbors to be on our side and love that we are there. If
that means fewer chairs, or just being anal about straightening the chairs
all the time, that seems fair. I think erring on the side of being too
considerate to our neighbors is a good idea...
I do like the folding bench idea!!
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 3:01 PM, Marc Juul <juul(a)labitat.dk> wrote:
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 2:42 PM, David Keenan <dkeenan44(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
--
•amgo•
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
Yea, yar - I'm not saying we have to do it, but honestly I've never
seen even the bench and metal chairs full (seating about six).. do you
think we need seating for 12?
I'm thinking, maybe why don't we see if we're ever running out of
seating, then return to the idea of adding more chairs, ie if that is
needed.
I think the more chairs we add, the more likely we are to get a
complaint is all. And If we don't need em, I figure why put that
risk out there.
I propose doubling the number of chairs every day until we get a
complaint, then backing back down to the previous number.
On Friday, December 12, 2014, Torrie Fischer <tdfischer(a)hackerbots.net>
wrote:
> Maybe install a large folding bench onto the side of the building,
> like some
> restaurants have.
>
> On Friday, December 12, 2014 02:01:24 PM yar wrote:
> > On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 1:34 PM, David Keenan <dkeenan44(a)gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > Great strides have been made visavis debris and garbage ending up
> outside,
> > > and that is great. However, the newly-longer line of chairs
> chained up
> > > outside the building, while useful of course, frankly is starting
> to look
> > > too janky and an eyesore at this point.
> > >
> > > In order to improve somewhat the outside appearance of our
> building and
> > > the
> > > perception of neighbors, I would like to cut down on the number of
> outside
> > > chairs. Basically, I think we should remove all but the bench and
> the
> > > bare-metal chairs. IE, I think all the new white chairs should be
> removed.
> > > It's just too much.
> > >
> > > In addition, by the way, technically we do not have permission
> from the
> > > city to put any seating outside. I've looked at our property line
> and its
> > > not clear actually that it extends a few feet from the building.
> Even if
> > > it did, there is an easement with the city's sidewalk that means
> they
> > > have control over it.
> > >
> > > I appreciate the doocratic effort to provide more outside seating,
> but can
> > > we please remove these extra white chairs? Its overkill imo.
> >
> > Ok so where are people supposed to sit then? Would they prefer we
> > sit/lie on the sidewalk instead?
> > _______________________________________________
> > sudo-discuss mailing list
> > sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
> > https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>
>
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
15 Dec
15 Dec
11:18 a.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] cut down on the # of outside chairs?
I've noticed that at sudo there is a tendency to increase inventory of
whatever it may be, because as Niki pointed out, it's actually easier to
bring something to sudo, then remove it from sudo (that is, if you are
disposing it). I won't judge whether that's good or bad for sudo room.
Certainly it's easy to see how this tendency, when spilling beyond sudo
room proper, could be viewed as cruft.
Make a great day,
Max Klein ‽ http://notconfusing.com/
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 3:48 PM, niki <niki.shelley(a)gmail.com> wrote:
This also raises again for me the issue of moving furniture into the
building with the assumption that everyone is going to be fine with it and
not having anyone be accountable for it.
I think, out of respect for all of us who share this space, decisions
about how shared space is used should be made collectively - that's not to
say that we have to have a collective meeting any time someone brings
something into the space but that there should be a contact person for
large items brought into the space and if people have objections and it's
collectively agreed that the item should go, the contact person can be
responsible for removing the item(s) in question.
I personally feel frustrated by the suggestion that we should all just be
happy with whatever junk people want to drop off here. (Probably because I
have made lots of dump runs throwing away a not insignificant amount of
said junk.)
Love,
Niki
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 3:22 PM, niki <niki.shelley(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Why not keep extra chairs stacked neatly
somewhere just inside the door
in the event that we actually need extra seating?
I agree that all of those chairs are a bit overkill. Also, the cafe
would, at some point, like to apply for a permit for outdoor seating.
xo
N
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Amgo Go <littlebitagive(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
Just speaking personally, from the perspective of
some one newly
educated on how easy it is for the "Neighborhood" (developers, business
development folks, city of oakland) to make life hard for us to continue
(see 350% tax increase just served us by the "Business Improvement
District"), I suggest we take the feelings of our neighbors (the people
that live next to us) very seriously.
I'd like our neighbors to be on our side and love that we are there. If
that means fewer chairs, or just being anal about straightening the chairs
all the time, that seems fair. I think erring on the side of being too
considerate to our neighbors is a good idea...
I do like the folding bench idea!!
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 3:01 PM, Marc Juul <juul(a)labitat.dk> wrote:
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 2:42 PM, David Keenan <dkeenan44(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> Yea, yar - I'm not saying we have to do it, but honestly I've never
> seen even the bench and metal chairs full (seating about six).. do you
> think we need seating for 12?
>
> I'm thinking, maybe why don't we see if we're ever running out of
> seating, then return to the idea of adding more chairs, ie if that is
> needed.
>
> I think the more chairs we add, the more likely we are to get a
> complaint is all. And If we don't need em, I figure why put that
> risk out there.
>
I propose doubling the number of chairs every day until we get a
complaint, then backing back down to the previous number.
>
>
> On Friday, December 12, 2014, Torrie Fischer <tdfischer(a)hackerbots.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Maybe install a large folding bench onto the side of the building,
>> like some
>> restaurants have.
>>
>> On Friday, December 12, 2014 02:01:24 PM yar wrote:
>> > On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 1:34 PM, David Keenan <dkeenan44(a)gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > > Great strides have been made visavis debris and garbage ending up
>> outside,
>> > > and that is great. However, the newly-longer line of chairs
>> chained up
>> > > outside the building, while useful of course, frankly is starting
>> to look
>> > > too janky and an eyesore at this point.
>> > >
>> > > In order to improve somewhat the outside appearance of our
>> building and
>> > > the
>> > > perception of neighbors, I would like to cut down on the number
>> of outside
>> > > chairs. Basically, I think we should remove all but the bench and
>> the
>> > > bare-metal chairs. IE, I think all the new white chairs should be
>> removed.
>> > > It's just too much.
>> > >
>> > > In addition, by the way, technically we do not have permission
>> from the
>> > > city to put any seating outside. I've looked at our property line
>> and its
>> > > not clear actually that it extends a few feet from the building.
>> Even if
>> > > it did, there is an easement with the city's sidewalk that means
>> they
>> > > have control over it.
>> > >
>> > > I appreciate the doocratic effort to provide more outside
>> seating, but can
>> > > we please remove these extra white chairs? Its overkill imo.
>> >
>> > Ok so where are people supposed to sit then? Would they prefer we
>> > sit/lie on the sidewalk instead?
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > sudo-discuss mailing list
>> > sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
>> > https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> discuss mailing list
> discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
>
>
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
--
•amgo•
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
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3660
days inactive
3663
days old
7 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
Amgo Go -
David Keenan -
Marc Juul -
Maximilian Klein -
niki -
Torrie Fischer -
yar