Hi I'm totally new here and I don't know any of you. I live in west Oakland but I belong to Noisebridge! Absurd. I agree with an earlier poster that it is valuable to make members/ people work for what they get. Not giving ppl 24 h access is as justifiable for that reason as it is for the safety reasons. I suggest you adopt the age-old policy of having to get a current member to recommend you in order to be a full member (24-h access). Someone like me could become a partial member immediately, with limited access, and then I would have to meet some people and get one (or two, if that's the rule) to sign off on me being a full member. It sounds exclusive, but it's actually already how communities work. On Apr 4, 2013 11:57 AM, "rusty lindgren" <rustylindgren(a)gmail.com> wrote: _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss

Same, Welcome Sonja! Thanks for your thoughts. It's really important to the group that all humans feel like there is a good level of safety in the space. :D On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 12:25 PM, Marina Kukso <marina.kukso(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote: -- Cheers, Rusty Lindgren ** _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss

Good points, There are some other threat models to work through, but this would be a great place to start from. -Rusty On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 2:11 PM, Julio Rios &lt;julio.rios(a)gmail.com <mailto:julio.rios@gmail.com>> wrote: I was listening to the Noisebridge tour sent by Vicky and it seems like their membership process <http://youtu.be/2wGMjRJpLCA?t=10m02s> is a little more formalized <http://youtu.be/2wGMjRJpLCA?t=8m58s>. I would support doing something similar, though perhaps not exactly the same.... as Sonja suggested. I would think full members (per some criteria) would get access 24/7, and everyone else can access the space if a member is already there (as is usually the case now, though the definition of "member" is currently somewhat vague). On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 1:52 PM, rusty lindgren &lt;rustylindgren(a)gmail.com <mailto:rustylindgren@gmail.com>> wrote: Same, Welcome Sonja! Thanks for your thoughts. It's really important to the group that all humans feel like there is a good level of safety in the space. :D On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 12:25 PM, Marina Kukso &lt;marina.kukso(a)gmail.com <mailto:marina.kukso@gmail.com>> wrote: welcome sonja! +a million to jordan's email. - marina On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 12:24 PM, Sonja Trauss &lt;sonja.trauss(a)gmail.com <mailto:sonja.trauss@gmail.com>> wrote: Hi I'm totally new here and I don't know any of you. I live in west Oakland but I belong to Noisebridge! Absurd. I agree with an earlier poster that it is valuable to make members/ people work for what they get. Not giving ppl 24 h access is as justifiable for that reason as it is for the safety reasons. I suggest you adopt the age-old policy of having to get a current member to recommend you in order to be a full member (24-h access). Someone like me could become a partial member immediately, with limited access, and then I would have to meet some people and get one (or two, if that's the rule) to sign off on me being a full member. It sounds exclusive, but it's actually already how communities work. On Apr 4, 2013 11:57 AM, "rusty lindgren" &lt;rustylindgren(a)gmail.com <mailto:rustylindgren@gmail.com>> wrote: Hey Everyone, Just thought I would point this out, since it came up earlier in the dues thread. But, Marc's point(a very good marketing point about 24/7 access), has as a big security exception, we didn't really talk about, probably mostly because of time. Basically, it's easy for us to think "hey, we should let this person have access, because they seem cool, and we want to remain open," but even I get sketched out at night sometimes, and there are real safety issues at work here, and we should discuss them in relation to cost/benefits for the space. It's also entirely possible that we trust someone, and they just do something bad anyway. We don't really spend a lot of time thinking about this, but this is something we haven't had to really deal with yet, because we've had really shitty access up until now. I don't know if my survey asked this question properly, but I was trying to see if 24/7 access was worth more to people as a value, but I think for some people it could be a safety draw-back, and at least in 1 case this is true. I also am not sure it's really something we should be promoting, if we do decide on it being okay for members to do. If anyone wants to post about how they feel about this(I think it really is about feelings in this case, because it's about promoting membership and establishing wants/needs), then please feel free to reply here. Thanks, Rusty ** _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org <mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org <mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss -- Cheers, Rusty Lindgren ** _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org <mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss -- Cheers, Rusty Lindgren ** _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss

hi everyone, the definition of membership, requirements to become a member, and the benefits of membership are discussed in our articles of association<https://sudoroom.org/wiki/page/Articles_of_Association#Secti… : Section 2.0 Definition *sudo room* is a deliberative collective, meaning there is horizontal democratic control and participatory management of the organization, which is composed of all individual members. However, the group actively strives to substantially incorporate interested community participants and beneficiaries who are non-members. Members agree to decisions made by *sudo room* as well the terms of these Articles of Association and all future amendments. By using spaces or services operated by *sudo room*, community participants and beneficiaries are obligated to respect all decisions by *sudo room* as well as the terms of these Articles of Association and all future amendments. [edit<https://sudoroom.org/mediawiki/index.php?title=Articles_of_Associat… ]Section 2.1 Qualifications for Membership - Membership is defined by fulfilling the following requirements: 1. Contributing monthly dues (sliding-scale with respect to operating costs) or equivalent. - It is an express purpose of the group to keep membership rates low, and therefore accessible, as well as offer, when possible, alternatives to monetary contribution to suffice for monthly dues. 2. A status of good standing with the organization. - Unresolved debts and/or substantial lapses in respecting the values of the organization and its members may result in suspension of membership, to be determined by fair process respecting individual rights and freedoms and the integrity of community norms. [edit<https://sudoroom.org/mediawiki/index.php?title=Articles_of_Associat… ]Section 2.2 Sudo Functionaries [snipped<https://sudoroom.org/wiki/page/Articles_of_Association#Section_2… ] [edit<https://sudoroom.org/mediawiki/index.php?title=Articles_of_Associat… ]Section 2.3 Benefits The following are benefits available to all members: - Usable assets and resources available within reasonable constraints of time and under the condition of sharing. - *sudo room* strives to make assets and resources available to as many non-member participants and beneficiaries as possible. - Note: no personal property should be stored in *sudo room* unless a system for personal storage can be provided by *sudo room*. - Note: the use of *sudo room* environments for habitation and/or domestic use is strongly discouraged. - Approved discounts and services negotiated through the collective purchasing power of *sudo room*. - Items are up to the discretion of *sudo room* to determine through its budgeting and decision-making processes. - A *safe space,* which is defined as: - "A place where anyone can relax and be fully self-expressed, without fear of being made to feel uncomfortable, unwelcome, or unsafe on account of biological sex, race/ethnicity, sexual orientation, gender identity or expression, cultural background, age, or physical or mental ability; a place where the rules guard each person's self-respect and dignity and strongly encourage everyone to respect others." — Advocates for Youth via Wikipedia<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safe-space> . - marina On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 2:33 PM, aestetix &lt;aestetix(a)aestetix.com&gt; wrote: _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss

Hi All, I will continue to grant access to anyone who asks within reason, especially if they ask in person. Our real problem right now is getting more people in to the space and not keeping people out. In accordance with the value of "solving real problems over hypotheticals, while respecting visions of the future", we should be focusing on giving access to as many people as possible (who want it) using basic common sense when distributing access. I understand that there is a real problem of people feeling uncomfortable at night at the space. Filling the space with more people and figuring out how to make our access system work to the point that we never have to prop open the door are real solutions for this. Those solutions are what I am personally focused on. Thanks, Andrew (Sudo Keymaster #1)

+a million to jordan's email. - marina On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 12:24 PM, Sonja Trauss sonja.trauss(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:

Hi I'm totally new here and I don't know any of you. I live in west Oakland but I belong to Noisebridge! Absurd.

Basically, it's easy for us to think "hey, we should let this person have access, because they seem cool, and we want to remain open," but even I get sketched out at night sometimes, and there are real safety issues at work here, and we should discuss them in relation to cost/benefits for the space.  It's also entirely possible that we trust someone, and they just do something bad anyway.  We don't really spend a lot of time thinking about this, but this is something we haven't had to really deal with yet, because we've had really shitty access up until now. 

I don't know if my survey asked this question properly, but I was trying to see if 24/7 access was worth more to people as a value, but I think for some people it could be a safety draw-back, and at least in 1 case this is true.  I also am not sure it's really something we should be promoting, if we do decide on it being okay for members to do.  

If anyone wants to post about how they feel about this(I think it really is about feelings in this case, because it's about promoting membership and establishing wants/needs), then please feel free to reply here.