My positions are pro-coexistence, anti-war, and
critical of Israel,
but stop short of cheering the people who want us dead.
In Israel they would get me branded a traitor. Here you call me a
genocide supporter when I explicitly condemn it.
You don’t ask Chinese people if they disavow the CCP, which put 1M
Muslims in cages. You certainly don’t ask them to condemn all
Chinese citizens who are members.
I have very clearly stated that I oppose Israel’s actions and want
Palestinians to live, yet you put words in my mouth because I fall
short of demonizing half my people and rooting for them to die!
On Fri, Jun 6, 2025 at 3:16 PM Geffen Avraham
<arora.tintin(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Jake, at what point have I defended genocide,
when I have EXPLICITLY
STATED I don’t.
I will not respond to your intimidation and attempt and blocking
people who feel unsafe by your tacit support of murdering innocent
people for their nationality.
Do you think half the worlds Jews are evil?
YES or NO
On Fri, Jun 6, 2025 at 2:22 PM Geffen Avraham
<arora.tintin(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Seriously, that's where we're we've gotten to? Raising concerns
about antisemitism means you're a racist?
Jake has tried to ban me for daring to raise concerns about
anti-jewish racism.
i have funded and kept sudo alive during times when it was at risk
of foreclosure. at no point have i made any apologia for any israeli
crimes, only criticism of arab nationalism and islamic theocracy.
the amount of people america bombed in one night in dresden is more
than all the people killed in gaza in 2 years. but i don't support
bombing gaza, so stop spreading this lie about me.
but you clearly don't want to stop the genocide, you want to swap
the genocide.
if you support abducting an infant from his mother's arms and
keeping him in a tunnel - not an accidental death from a bombing,
but an 8 month old ripped knowingly and intentionally by human hands
from his family - say it so we can hear you.
is your official position that half the world's jews are
ontologically evil and not welcome at sudo, and that antisemtism is
not real and it's racist to raise concerns about it?
if so, please say it out loud so we can all hear you.
If i get banned after this, let me serve as a canary in the coal
mine - that without making any apologia for israeli war crimes, only
pointing out the deep feeling of danger and lack of safety jews feel
and daring to have empathy for 6 million of the world's jews, will
ban you from this space.
On Thu, Jun 5, 2025 at 9:51 PM Geffen Avraham
<arora.tintin(a)gmail.com> wrote:
disappointed at the lack of uncritical support of arab nationalism
and islamic extremism?
trying to pretend religion has nothing to do with this conflict is
like trying to pretend the civil war wasn't about slavery.
neoconfederates who make this claim have to squint and wave away
statements like Alexander H Stephens' Cornerstone Speech: "_slavery
subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal
condition" _or the Mississippi Declaration of Secession:
_"Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of
slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world."_
I couldn't understand how people could do this until I saw them deny
and wave away religious extremism and antisemitism, whether from the
Secretary-General of the Arab League:
“I personally wish that the Jews do not drive us to this war, as
this will be a war of extermination and momentous massacre which
will be spoken of like the Tartar massacre or the Crusader wars.
This war will be distinguished by three serious matters.
First—faith: as each fighter deems his death on behalf of
Palestine as the shortest road to paradise;"
It is plainly stated in the genocidal charter of Hamas, and in their
naming of the Oct 7 massacre after Al-Aqsa Mosque:
'Peace initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and
international conferences are in contradiction to the principles
of the Islamic Resistance Movement... Those conferences are no more
than a means to appoint the infidels as arbitrators in the
lands of Islam... There is no solution for the Palestinian problem
except by Jihad.'
Or even from the PNA government of today, which published an
official government statement referring readers to the infamous
Hadith that the day of judgement will not come until you kill the
Jews.
Yet people continue to squint and pretend that it's not about
religious conflict. I recently watched the documentary "No Other
Land", and, knowing a bit of Arabic, noticed that whenever the
subtitles said "Israeli", the people were saying the word "Yahud" -
Jew. Same when a protest passed by my house recently - the leaders
were chanting in Arabic for the followers to repeat: "from water to
water, Palestine is Arab"
At no point above have I made any apologia for any Israeli actions -
only pointed out the Palestine movement is not aligned with treating
Jews as human beings - very openly not so in Arabic. And in Arabic,
they make no distinction between "Jew" and "Israeli", and say
"Arab", not "free".
But nevertheless I must request a source for your claim that Israel
created a fake feeding site and shot people who went there.
On Thu, Jun 5, 2025 at 9:30 PM Jake Watters via sudo-discuss
<sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org> wrote:
presently Israel is starving 2.2 million people to death inside a
concentration camp, and they set up a fake "food distribution site"
and shoot to kill anyone who approaches it.
I was really hoping this "anti apartheid" proposal would be able to
go through more easily and I'm extremely disappointed in what's
happening here.
-jake
On Thu, Jun 5, 2025 at 7:37 PM Paige P via sudo-discuss
<sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org> wrote:
I support us doing the Apartheid-Free Communities pledge.
Aside: This thread brings up a good question of how do we
decision-make?
I looked at the wiki to see if there was any old protocol. There's
this page that looks just like a brainstorming page:
https://sudoroom.org/wiki/Sudo_room/decisions
Also there's our bylaws, which have been newly made:
https://sudoroom.org/wiki/Bylaws. We can have our internal way of
doing things, but I would feel more comfortable if we had our bylaws
match what we do as closely as possible so that we can confidently
make decisions. And I think our bylaws as is are a good starting
point: My understanding is our bylaws allow for a vote on things via
ballot by members. Quorum for the vote is 7 people, and the decision
is made by majority vote.
SECTION 12. ACTION BY WRITTEN BALLOT WITHOUT A MEETING
* (a) Any action which may be taken at any regular or special
meeting of members may be taken without a meeting if the corporation
distributes a written ballot to every member entitled to vote on the
matter. The ballot and any related material may be sent by
electronic transmission and responses may be returned to the
corporation by electronic transmission. The ballot shall set forth
the proposed action, provide an opportunity to specify approval or
disapproval of any proposal, and provide a reasonable time within
which to return the ballot to the corporation.
* (b) Approval by written ballot pursuant to this section shall be
valid only when the number of votes cast by ballot within the time
period specified equals or exceeds the quorum required to be present
at a meeting authorizing the action, and the number of approvals
equals or exceeds the number of votes that would be required to
approve at a meeting at which the total number of votes cast was the
same as the number of votes cast by ballot.
* (c) Ballots shall indicate the number of responses needed to meet
the quorum requirement and, with respect to ballots other than for
the election of directors, shall state the percentage of approvals
necessary to pass the measure submitted. Ballots must specify the
time by which the ballot must be received in order to be counted.
* (d) A written ballot may not be revoked.
SECTION 5. QUORUM FOR MEETINGS
A quorum of the Members shall consist of at least seven (7) Members
of the Corporation in good standing as of the date of the vote. The
members present at a duly called and held meeting at which a quorum
is initially present may continue to do business notwithstanding the
loss of a quorum at the meeting due to a withdrawal of members from
the meeting provided that any action taken after the loss of a
quorum must be approved by at least a majority of the members
required to constitute a quorum.
On Thu, Jun 5, 2025 at 4:10 PM imogen via sudo-discuss
<sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org> wrote:
As an anarchist pacifist, I am not in support of signing because I
think
that both "sides" are in the wrong. The land issue is a religious
issue
and both Islam and Judaism are problematic institutions.
On 2025-06-05 15:56, Jake Watters via sudo-discuss wrote:
if there are no objections can we go ahead and
sign it?
On Wed, Jun 4, 2025 at 11:13 PM Aaron Fenyes via sudo-discuss
<sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org> wrote:
> Jake, Lo, and I (Aaron) talked about the Apartheid-Free
Communities
> pledge at tonight's meeting! Here are
some combined thoughts.
>
> === We should sign as soon as possible ===
>
> Signing the pledge will counteract ongoing harm in a small but
real
> way, so we should sign it as soon as
possible.
>
> === Our obligations ===
>
> Here's an idea of what we think we're promising to do, as an
> organization, by signing the pledge.
>
> --- Items 1-3 ---
>
>> WE AFFIRM our commitment to freedom, justice, and
>> equality for the Palestinian people and all people
>>
>> WE OPPOSE all forms of racism, bigotry,
>> discrimination, and oppression
>>
>> WE DECLARE ourselves an Apartheid-free community
>
> These are things we have or should have affirmed already, so
> (re)affirming them presumably won't change anything about how we
> operate.
>
> --- Item 4 ---
>
>> WE PLEDGE to join others in working to end all support to
Israel's
>> Apartheid regime, settler colonialism,
and military occupation.
>
> Here are some ways we can uphold this promise.
>
> - Sign the pledge. As Lo pointed out in the quoted e-mails below,
> just putting our name on the list of signatories already helps
> uphold our obligations: "It reflects public support to our
elected
> officials when we press them to divest from
Israeli violence. It
> reduces harm to Palestinian and Arab members of our community. It
> challenges the official narratives and expands the public
> consciousness around Palestine."
>
> - Confirm on our wiki that we've signed the pledge, and add the
> Apartheid-Free Communities logo.
>
> - Facilitate (and, if possible, promote) the use of our space by
> organizations "working to end all support to Israel's Apartheid
> regime, settler colonialism, and military occupation."
>
> - Provide information resources (like flyers, zines, articles,
book
> chapters, and a listening / watching /
reading list) in the
space.
>
> === Background on the campaign ===
>
> This Apartheid-Free Communities campaign is financed by the
American
> Friends Service Committee, a Quaker
organization. You can find
some
> steering committee members on the campaign
site's "About" page
> (
https://apartheid-free.org/about/).
>
> All the listed steering committee members are Christian or
Unitarian
> organizations, which for one of us (Aaron) is
kind of a red flag.
>
> On the other hand, the list of pledge signatories seems to
include
> more diverse religious organizations. In
particular, it has a
good
> number of Jewish organizations, including the
national and Bay
Area
> chapters of Jewish Voice for Peace.
>
>> On Mon, 2 Jun 2025, Jake Watters via sudo-discuss wrote:
>>
>>> Let's have a meeting this coming Wednesday, in two days! Last
> week just
>>> three or four of us got together and discussed things as can be
> seen in the
>>> meeting notes:
>>>
https://sudoroom.org/wiki/Meetings
>>>
>>> Here's a proposed agenda:
>>> * catch up on new membership applications
>>> * continue talking about the process of sudoroom becoming its
> own 501(c)3
>>> * the volunteer effort of updating our membership list
>>> * fundraising including reaching out to members who may have
> forgotten to
>>> pay dues
>>> * sudoroom signing the "Apartheid-Free Communities" pledge! See
> below for
>>> more info
>>>
>>> Lets say this Wednesday, 7:30PM?
>>> -jake
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>>> From: Lo via sudo-discuss sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org
>>> Date: Tue, May 27, 2025 at 7:37 PM
>>> Subject: [sudo-discuss] Proposal: SUDO room joins the Apartheid
> Free
>>> Communities Campaign
>>> To: sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org
>>>
>>> Dear Sudoroom members and leaders,
>>>
>>> For the past 2.5 years I’ve been a Sudoroom “member” (I
> say this in
>>> quotations because I’ve been paying dues and attending but
> have never been
>>> endorsed as a full fledged member), but I’d like to make a
> proposal that
>>> Sudoroom become an Apartheid Free Community!
>>>
>>> I am writing as a member of SURJ Bay Area’s Palestine
> Solidarity Campaign.
>>> As a racial justice organization, SURJ believes it is our moral
> obligation
>>> to demand an end to Israel’s system of apartheid, its
genocide
> in Gaza, and
>>> its increasing violent seizure of land in the West Bank. All
> this is paid
>>> for by our tax dollars, with the U.S. directly funding the
> Israeli
>>> government to the tune of $35 billion a year.
>>>
>>> We invite Sudoroom to join us to support the Palestinian
> people’s human
>>> rights, lives, and lands by taking the pledge to become an
> Apartheid-Free
>>> Community.
>>>
>>> Apartheid is a crime against humanity. As defined by the United
> Nations
>>>
https://legal.un.org/avl/ha/cspca/cspca.html, apartheid
> includes:
>>>
>>> • Acts such as murder, torture, inhuman treatment, and
> arbitrary arrest of
>>> members of a racial group
>>>
>>> • Deliberate imposition upon the subjugated racial group of
> living
>>> conditions calculated to cause its physical destruction
>>>
>>> • Legislative measures that discriminate in the political,
> social,
>>> economic, and cultural fields
>>>
>>> We could fill pages with examples of how Israel’s treatment
of
> Palestinians
>>> meets this criteria—from arrests and imprisonment without
> charges to the
>>> destruction of Gaza by bombing homes, hospitals, and schools
and
> cutting
>>> off food, water, electricity and medical supplies. Palestinians
> are
>>> subjected to entirely different laws and judicial systems,
> without freedom
>>> of movement and economic opportunities.
>>>
>>> Inspired by the anti-apartheid movement that helped topple the
> white
>>> supremacist regime in South Africa, the Apartheid-Free
> Communities Campaign
>>> is bringing communities together to end apartheid in
> Israel/Palestine. We
>>> encourage Sudoroom to join the over 500 organizations across
the
> globe,
>>> including cities, schools, faith-based communities, labor
> unions,
>>> businesses, and organizations, in taking the pledge to become
an
>>> Apartheid-Free Community.
>>>
>>> Signing the Pledge makes a difference! It reflects public
> support to our
>>> elected officials when we press them to divest from Israeli
> violence. It
>>> reduces harm to Palestinian and Arab members of our community.
> It
>>> challenges the official narratives and expands the public
> consciousness
>>> around Palestine. We ask that you sign this pledge, and take
> actions, in
>>> whatever way makes sense to Sudoroom, to be part of this
effort.
>>>
>>> Be sure to let me know if you have any questions and how I can
> support your
>>> Sudoroom in signing the Pledge and joining this campaign.
>>>
>>> In Solidarity,
>>>
>>> Lo
>>>
>>> P.S. We have materials including buttons, posters, and
pamphlets
> you can
>>> use to increase awareness and build support. Plus the
> Apartheid-Free
>>> Communities website
https://apartheid-free.org/about/ is full
of
> great
>>> resources and educational materials.
>>>
>>> --
>>> *Lo *
>>> Pronouns: She/They
https://www.mypronouns.org/
>>>
>>> There is no neutral body from which our bodies deviate. Society
> has
>>> written deep into each strand of tissue of every living person
> on earth.
>>> What it writes into the heart muscles of five star generals is
> distinct
>>> from what it writes in the pancreatic tissue and intestinal
> tracts of Black
>>> single mothers in Detroit, of Mexicana migrants in Fresno, but
> no body
>>> stands outside the consequences of injustice and inequality
>>>
>>> *― *Aurora Levins Morales
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> To unsubscribe send an email to sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org
>>> More options at
>>>
>
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imogen
Jake Watters
Justin Morrison
Steve Berl