16 Oct
2022
16 Oct
'22
10:39 p.m.
We've gotten many complaints recently about omni's wifi being totally open
and not password protected. Many folks are afraid of their devices being
attacked if they join our network. And tbh I don't blame them.
I think we should offer a wpa-protected network for those who want one. But
I don't have the capacity to work on that. Does it sound fun to anybody
else?
We used to have a private subnet which would have made this easier, but it
got unceremoniously merged with the public one a few years ago. One useful
side task would be to identify and label all the ethernet cables running
out of our one remaining switch. Some of them could provide the backbone of
a new network.
16 Oct
16 Oct
11:04 p.m.
I think we'd be doing people a disservice by pretending that we're providing a
"secure" internet connection. The Omni doesn't have a closed network
infrastructure and you know as well as I do that anyone can connect anything to
the network and monitor any connections. If people want the illusion of
security, they should get it from AT&T or whoever they pay for cellular
service.
Giving people a password-protected wifi network for the purpose of "security"
would be taking advantage of peoples lack of knowledge about computer and
network security, purely for the purpose of making our own lives easier so that
we don't have to have the conversation. You konw as well as I do that the
"hackers" are just as likely to be somewhere else on the internet (domestic or
international) as they are to be inside the building, and a user's
countermeasures are no different for one or the other.
I think we provide a valuable service to people by not lying to them about the
internet.
-jake
On Sun, 16 Oct 2022, Yardena Cohen via sudo-discuss wrote:
We've gotten many complaints recently about
omni's wifi being totally open
and not password protected. Many folks are afraid of their devices being
attacked if they join our network. And tbh I don't blame them.
I think we should offer a wpa-protected network for those who want one. But
I don't have the capacity to work on that. Does it sound fun to anybody
else?
We used to have a private subnet which would have made this easier, but it
got unceremoniously merged with the public one a few years ago. One useful
side task would be to identify and label all the ethernet cables running
out of our one remaining switch. Some of them could provide the backbone of
a new network.
17 Oct
17 Oct
2:18 a.m.
Jake, I think you're discounting the local vector to devices which may
not have firewalls or upgradeable kernels. WPA does add a layer of
protection for these devices.
I'm still gonna tell people to use VPNs and stan linux, but it's
frankly elitist and delusional to expect everybody to switch, and I
cannot in good conscience tell them that an open network is just as
good for them. It is not. It's a greater attack surface.
I'm not saying we should turn off the open network, but we should
offer a private one too.
The security of AT&T and cell data networks is not totally illusory.
They have teams of people regularly auditing and maintaining their
networks, but omni does not.
On Sun, Oct 16, 2022 at 11:04 PM Jake <jake(a)spaz.org> wrote:
I think we'd be doing people a disservice by pretending that we're providing a
"secure" internet connection. The Omni doesn't have a closed network
infrastructure and you know as well as I do that anyone can connect anything to
the network and monitor any connections. If people want the illusion of
security, they should get it from AT&T or whoever they pay for cellular
service.
Giving people a password-protected wifi network for the purpose of "security"
would be taking advantage of peoples lack of knowledge about computer and
network security, purely for the purpose of making our own lives easier so that
we don't have to have the conversation. You konw as well as I do that the
"hackers" are just as likely to be somewhere else on the internet (domestic or
international) as they are to be inside the building, and a user's
countermeasures are no different for one or the other.
I think we provide a valuable service to people by not lying to them about the
internet.
-jake
On Sun, 16 Oct 2022, Yardena Cohen via sudo-discuss wrote:
> We've gotten many complaints recently about omni's wifi being totally open
> and not password protected. Many folks are afraid of their devices being
> attacked if they join our network. And tbh I don't blame them.
>
> I think we should offer a wpa-protected network for those who want one. But
> I don't have the capacity to work on that. Does it sound fun to anybody
> else?
>
> We used to have a private subnet which would have made this easier, but it
> got unceremoniously merged with the public one a few years ago. One useful
> side task would be to identify and label all the ethernet cables running
> out of our one remaining switch. Some of them could provide the backbone of
> a new network.
>
11:05 a.m.
Agree with Jake. Though maybe someday in the nebulous future we could
partner with other hackerspaces around the world to be endpoints for an
open source VPN service. Not that it would come with any gaurantee either
but it would be kind of interesting.
On Sun, Oct 16, 2022, 11:05 PM Jake via sudo-discuss <
sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org> wrote:
I think we'd be doing people a disservice by
pretending that we're
providing a
"secure" internet connection. The Omni doesn't have a closed network
infrastructure and you know as well as I do that anyone can connect
anything to
the network and monitor any connections. If people want the illusion of
security, they should get it from AT&T or whoever they pay for cellular
service.
Giving people a password-protected wifi network for the purpose of
"security"
would be taking advantage of peoples lack of knowledge about computer and
network security, purely for the purpose of making our own lives easier so
that
we don't have to have the conversation. You konw as well as I do that the
"hackers" are just as likely to be somewhere else on the internet
(domestic or
international) as they are to be inside the building, and a user's
countermeasures are no different for one or the other.
I think we provide a valuable service to people by not lying to them about
the
internet.
-jake
On Sun, 16 Oct 2022, Yardena Cohen via sudo-discuss wrote:
We've gotten many complaints recently about
omni's wifi being totally
open
and not password protected. Many folks are afraid
of their devices being
attacked if they join our network. And tbh I don't blame them.
I think we should offer a wpa-protected network for those who want one.
But
I don't have the capacity to work on that.
Does it sound fun to anybody
else?
We used to have a private subnet which would have made this easier, but
it
got unceremoniously merged with the public one a
few years ago. One
useful
side task would be to identify and label all the
ethernet cables running
out of our one remaining switch. Some of them could provide the backbone
of
a new network.
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19 Oct
19 Oct
12:42 a.m.
Ok I concede that my proposal sucked, but yall were arguing against
the wrong part of it.
It's true that wpa doesn't add anything if the password is widely
known, and that it's not possible to offer a safer network which is
also freely accessible to the myriad people who use omni. So yes, my
proposal therefore creates either 1) illusory snake oil, or 2) a
tiered system where a few trusted folks have better access.
In retrospect, I really am arguing for #2, and because I didn't like
the full implications of it, I carelessly downplayed it, and should
not be surprised that people are instead arguing against the straw man
of #1. Feels shitty to be mansplained and assumed ignorant about
things I actually know a lot about, but fair enough, I walked into
that one.
But I do think that we should have that conversation about #2. Replace
"for those who want one" with "for people who we trust, who are
working hard at omni, and who are also extra sensitive to surveillance
and security culture".
22 Oct
22 Oct
4:26 p.m.
Even though I agree with the saying "trust no network", I do also agree
that there should be some degree of security (or difficulty to access
certain information).
The suggestion is that the WiFi password be changed every who knows when
(month? two months? random?), print and place the password and its QR Code
at some wall inside OC. How to create the QRCode on Linux:
qrencode -s 9 -l H -o "OmniCommons-WiFi.png"
"WIFI:S:OmniCommons;T:WPA2;P:SuperPasswordGoesHere;;"
IMHO, it will reduce the openness and make a bit more difficult to just
anyone from the street scan/etc the network.
Last time I checked the OmniCommons WiFi signal reaches about half block
away from the building, going north on Shattuck Ave.
Thanks.
On Wed, Oct 19, 2022 at 12:43 AM Yardena Cohen via sudo-discuss <
sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org> wrote:
Ok I concede that my proposal sucked, but yall were
arguing against
the wrong part of it.
It's true that wpa doesn't add anything if the password is widely
known, and that it's not possible to offer a safer network which is
also freely accessible to the myriad people who use omni. So yes, my
proposal therefore creates either 1) illusory snake oil, or 2) a
tiered system where a few trusted folks have better access.
In retrospect, I really am arguing for #2, and because I didn't like
the full implications of it, I carelessly downplayed it, and should
not be surprised that people are instead arguing against the straw man
of #1. Feels shitty to be mansplained and assumed ignorant about
things I actually know a lot about, but fair enough, I walked into
that one.
But I do think that we should have that conversation about #2. Replace
"for those who want one" with "for people who we trust, who are
working hard at omni, and who are also extra sensitive to surveillance
and security culture".
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participants (4)
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Cere Misc -
danarauz＠gmail.com -
Jake -
Yardena Cohen