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Craig Rouskey

24 Feb 2014 24 Feb '14

8:16 p.m.

Hey All, Are we able to deduct Sudo Room as charitable donations this year? Craig

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Max Klein

24 Feb 24 Feb

10:41 p.m.

Craig, I don't believe so right now. We are a state nonprofit, not a federal non profit. Sadness. I will work on fixing this soon. [1] http://www.irs.gov/publications/p526/ar02.html#en_US_2013_publink1000229641 " Organizations That Qualify To Receive Deductible Contributions You can deduct your contributions only if you make them to a qualified organization. Most organizations, other than churches and governments, must apply to the IRS to become a qualified organization." On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 8:16 PM, Craig Rouskey <craigrouskey(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:

Hey All, Are we able to deduct Sudo Room as charitable donations this year? Craig _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss

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Patrik D'haeseleer

11:06 p.m.

Also, membership fees are typically not deductable. If you get something in return, it's not really a donation. Patrik On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 8:16 PM, Craig Rouskey <craigrouskey(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:

Hey All, Are we able to deduct Sudo Room as charitable donations this year? Craig _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss

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Danny Spitzberg

25 Feb 25 Feb

4:48 a.m.

You can usually deduct a donation minus the "fair market value" of what rewards (t-shirts, etc) you get in return ... I'd be curious to see what gray area works in out favor here with membership dues - if they can be construed as donations On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 11:06 PM, Patrik D'haeseleer <patrikd(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Also, membership fees are typically not deductable. If you get something in return, it's not really a donation. Patrik On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 8:16 PM, Craig Rouskey <craigrouskey(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote: > Hey All, > > Are we able to deduct Sudo Room as charitable donations this year? > > Craig > > _______________________________________________ > sudo-discuss mailing list > sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss > >

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Craig Rouskey

8:10 a.m.

Yeah, my contributions to Sudo (as well as CCL via class teaching) are donations.— Craig J. Rouskey contact(a)craigrouskey.com http://www.craigrouskey.com On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 4:48 AM, Danny Spitzberg <stationaery(a)gmail.com> wrote:

You can usually deduct a donation minus the "fair market value" of what rewards (t-shirts, etc) you get in return ... I'd be curious to see what gray area works in out favor here with membership dues - if they can be construed as donations On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 11:06 PM, Patrik D'haeseleer <patrikd(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Also, membership fees are typically not deductable. If you get something in > return, it's not really a donation. > Patrik > On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 8:16 PM, Craig Rouskey <craigrouskey(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote: >> Hey All, >> >> Are we able to deduct Sudo Room as charitable donations this year? >> >> Craig >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sudo-discuss mailing list >> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss >> >>

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Richard Karnesky

3:50 p.m.

On 02/25/2014 04:48 AM, Danny Spitzberg wrote:

You can usually deduct a donation minus the "fair market value" of what rewards (t-shirts, etc) you get in return ... I'd be curious to see what gray area works in out favor here with membership dues - if they can be construed as donations

GAFFTA membership fees are fully tax deductible, as are The Crucible's. Per IRS Publication 526: "Certain membership benefits can be disregarded. Both you and the organization can disregard the following membership benefits if you get them in return for an annual payment of $75 or less. 1. Any rights or privileges, other than those discussed under Athletic events , earlier, that you can use frequently while you are a member, such as: a. Free or discounted admission to the organization's facilities or events, ... c. Preferred access to goods or services,..." When/if sudo is recognized federally as a 501(c)3, I'd imagine dues would be deductible (unless I'm unaware of some additional tangible benefit of membership). Some organizations consider t-shirts and similar to be "token items" that do not decrease the deductible amount of your contribution (they cost the organization less than $10.20 each (presumably in quantity) and they bear the name/logo of the organization for donations greater than or equal to $51/yr. --Rick

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Hol Gaskill

4:39 p.m.

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Patrik D'haeseleer

5:44 p.m.

But if membership fees are > $75/yr (and didn't we put a minimum of $10/mo?), that clause would not apply. The lowest membership level at GAFFTA and the Crucible is exactly $75/yr, which is probably why they can make it fully tax deductible. Of course, the Crucible also makes far more from class fees than membership fees. If you pay more than $75/yr, then the organization needs to give you a written statement explaining how much is deductible. *Except* they don't need to give you a statement if the only things you get are "token items" (such as key chains and T-shirts?) and "membership benefits that can be disregarded" (such admission to the facilities and member events). If you read that by the letter, that might mean that the organization doesn't need to give you the statement, but you still won't be able to deduct those "certain membership benefits"? Gah, who wrote this kinda crap? Spaghetti code ain't got nothing on it... http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p526.pdf Patrik On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 3:50 PM, Richard Karnesky <rakarne(a)sandia.gov>wrote;wrote:

On 02/25/2014 04:48 AM, Danny Spitzberg wrote:

You can usually deduct a donation minus the "fair market value" of what rewards (t-shirts, etc) you get in return ... I'd be curious to see what gray area works in out favor here with membership dues - if they can be construed as donations

GAFFTA membership fees are fully tax deductible, as are The Crucible's. Per IRS Publication 526: "Certain membership benefits can be disregarded. Both you and the organization can disregard the following membership benefits if you get them in return for an annual payment of $75 or less. 1. Any rights or privileges, other than those discussed under Athletic events , earlier, that you can use frequently while you are a member, such as: a. Free or discounted admission to the organization's facilities or events, ... c. Preferred access to goods or services,..." When/if sudo is recognized federally as a 501(c)3, I'd imagine dues would be deductible (unless I'm unaware of some additional tangible benefit of membership). Some organizations consider t-shirts and similar to be "token items" that do not decrease the deductible amount of your contribution (they cost the organization less than $10.20 each (presumably in quantity) and they bear the name/logo of the organization for donations greater than or equal to $51/yr. --Rick

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eddan.com

6:19 p.m.

Just a note, btw - All those monies deducted by individual contributors (at least), in addition to whatever else) also need to be accounted for in Sudo Room's financial reporting to the IRS. sent from eddan.com

On Feb 25, 2014, at 5:44 PM, "Patrik D'haeseleer" <patrikd(a)gmail.com> wrote: But if membership fees are > $75/yr (and didn't we put a minimum of $10/mo?), that clause would not apply. The lowest membership level at GAFFTA and the Crucible is exactly $75/yr, which is probably why they can make it fully tax deductible. Of course, the Crucible also makes far more from class fees than membership fees. If you pay more than $75/yr, then the organization needs to give you a written statement explaining how much is deductible. *Except* they don't need to give you a statement if the only things you get are "token items" (such as key chains and T-shirts?) and "membership benefits that can be disregarded" (such admission to the facilities and member events). If you read that by the letter, that might mean that the organization doesn't need to give you the statement, but you still won't be able to deduct those "certain membership benefits"? Gah, who wrote this kinda crap? Spaghetti code ain't got nothing on it... http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p526.pdf Patrik

On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 3:50 PM, Richard Karnesky <rakarne(a)sandia.gov> wrote:

On 02/25/2014 04:48 AM, Danny Spitzberg wrote: You can usually deduct a donation minus the "fair market value" of what rewards (t-shirts, etc) you get in return ... I'd be curious to see what gray area works in out favor here with membership dues - if they can be construed as donations

GAFFTA membership fees are fully tax deductible, as are The Crucible's. Per IRS Publication 526: "Certain membership benefits can be disregarded. Both you and the organization can disregard the following membership benefits if you get them in return for an annual payment of $75 or less. 1. Any rights or privileges, other than those discussed under Athletic events , earlier, that you can use frequently while you are a member, such as: a. Free or discounted admission to the organization's facilities or events, ... c. Preferred access to goods or services,..." When/if sudo is recognized federally as a 501(c)3, I'd imagine dues would be deductible (unless I'm unaware of some additional tangible benefit of membership). Some organizations consider t-shirts and similar to be "token items" that do not decrease the deductible amount of your contribution (they cost the organization less than $10.20 each (presumably in quantity) and they bear the name/logo of the organization for donations greater than or equal to $51/yr. --Rick

_______________________________________________ sudo-discuss mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss

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Danny Spitzberg

26 Feb 26 Feb

12:06 p.m.

@Richard @Patrick, I'm motivated by what you say about deducting all donations. I'm no tax expert whatsoever BUT I have deducted whole donations in the past ($50 to buythissatellite.org for a t-shirt) and nobody ever said nothing............dot dot dot...... But playing it safe and by the books, here's an example from longnow.org (I pay member dues of $8/month which gives me free tickets to all talks/lectures) in which they make the same recommendation regarding "fair market value" (see below). It seems to me that Sudo can and should recommend full deductions, possibly because all member benefits are services (use of the space and shared tools/resources) not goods (no t-shirts or other swag). ---- Hello Members, We’d like to thank all of our members for the support you offer Long Now, through your financial contributions and by sharing your knowledge of the Foundation’s work to foster long-term thinking. Did you know that many employers offer a gift-matching program? Your membership dues may be eligible; please consider increasing the impact of your gift, and check with your employer’s HR office to learn more. You may need the following information: - Long Now’s tax ID number: 68-0384748 - Our contact person: Whitney Deatherage whitney(a)longnow.org - The tax deductible amount of your donation Below you will find a table that you can use to determine how much of the membership dues you paid in 02013 are tax deductible. Your membership dues each year are considered a tax deductible donation, minus the value of the goods and services you have received. The Long Now Foundation is a California State and Federal Non-profit organization and our tax exempt number is 68-0384748. Add up how many months you were a Member in 02013: - Stainless Steel Members $8 for each month in 02013 - Monel Members $30 for each month in 02013 - Tungsten Members $90 for each month in 02013 - Equation of Time Cam Members $2,500 (annual payment) Then subtract the estimated fair market value of the gifts you received if it is your first year of membership: - Stainless Steel Members - $15 for your Membership card - Monel Members - $15 for your Membership card - $20 for your Works in Progress book - Tungsten Members - $15 for your Membership card - $20 for your Works in Progress book - $20 for your Brian Eno Bells CD - Equation of Time Cam Members - $15 for your Membership card - $20 for your Works in Progress book - $20 for your Brian Eno Bells CD - $150 for your Equation of Time Cam Here are some highlights from 02013: - 854 new Members joined Long Now in 02013, and we exceeded our goal of 5,000 Members - 12 Seminars <http://longnow.org/seminars/> to attend, listen to live<http://longnow.org/live/>e/>, and view online - Newly re-designed Seminar pages <http://longnow.org/seminars/> with easier search, sharable highlights and more - Construction begins<http://longnow.org/membership/newsletters/02013-september-equinox… the Long Now Museum re-design, fundraising continues <https://longnow.org/salon/> - Revive and Restore TEDx<http://longnow.org/membership/newsletters/02013-march-equinox/#arti… - PanLex hits a billion translations<http://blog.longnow.org/02013/10/02/panlex-hits-a-billion-t… - A Rosetta Disk is en route to comet 67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko<http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Space_Scienc… board the ESA Rosetta Mission, scheduled to rendezvous with the comet in August 02014 - Partnership with the Future of Being Human<http://longnow.org/membership/newsletters/02013-december-solstice/… - Manual for Civilization<http://longnow.org/membership/newsletters/02013-june-solsti… launched - Dissident Futures<http://blog.longnow.org/02013/10/16/dissident-futures-at-ybca/&g… with Yerba Buena Center for the Arts - Partnership with swissnex on the Climate Change panel<http://longnow.org/membership/newsletters/02013-december-solstice/… Saul Griffith, Paul Hawken - and IPCC Scientists - Our new Bar Manager, Jennifer Colliau<http://longnow.org/membership/newsletters/02013-december-solstic…e2>, joins the Long Now team - 4 issues of the Quarterly News for Members<http://longnow.org/membership/newsletters/>published online And we're looking forward to some great new services and events in 02014: - Another great lineup of Seminars <http://longnow.org/seminars/> - Opening of the Long Now Salon <https://longnow.org/salon/> in the spring - Broadening the reach of the membership program<https://longnow.org/membership/>and offerings - More partnerships on thought provoking events and programming - and more to be announced in our Quarterly News for Members<http://longnow.org/membership/newsletters/> <http://longnow.org/membership/newsletters/> We're looking forward to another fascinating year - thank you again for your continuing support! On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 6:19 PM, eddan.com <eddan(a)sudoroom.tv> wrote:

Just a note, btw - All those monies deducted by individual contributors (at least), in addition to whatever else) also need to be accounted for in Sudo Room's financial reporting to the IRS. sent from eddan.com On Feb 25, 2014, at 5:44 PM, "Patrik D'haeseleer" <patrikd(a)gmail.com> wrote: But if membership fees are > $75/yr (and didn't we put a minimum of $10/mo?), that clause would not apply. The lowest membership level at GAFFTA and the Crucible is exactly $75/yr, which is probably why they can make it fully tax deductible. Of course, the Crucible also makes far more from class fees than membership fees. If you pay more than $75/yr, then the organization needs to give you a written statement explaining how much is deductible. *Except* they don't need to give you a statement if the only things you get are "token items" (such as key chains and T-shirts?) and "membership benefits that can be disregarded" (such admission to the facilities and member events). If you read that by the letter, that might mean that the organization doesn't need to give you the statement, but you still won't be able to deduct those "certain membership benefits"? Gah, who wrote this kinda crap? Spaghetti code ain't got nothing on it... http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p526.pdf Patrik On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 3:50 PM, Richard Karnesky <rakarne(a)sandia.gov>wrote;wrote:

On 02/25/2014 04:48 AM, Danny Spitzberg wrote:

You can usually deduct a donation minus the "fair market value" of what rewards (t-shirts, etc) you get in return ... I'd be curious to see what gray area works in out favor here with membership dues - if they can be construed as donations

GAFFTA membership fees are fully tax deductible, as are The Crucible's. Per IRS Publication 526: "Certain membership benefits can be disregarded. Both you and the organization can disregard the following membership benefits if you get them in return for an annual payment of $75 or less. 1. Any rights or privileges, other than those discussed under Athletic events , earlier, that you can use frequently while you are a member, such as: a. Free or discounted admission to the organization's facilities or events, ... c. Preferred access to goods or services,..." When/if sudo is recognized federally as a 501(c)3, I'd imagine dues would be deductible (unless I'm unaware of some additional tangible benefit of membership). Some organizations consider t-shirts and similar to be "token items" that do not decrease the deductible amount of your contribution (they cost the organization less than $10.20 each (presumably in quantity) and they bear the name/logo of the organization for donations greater than or equal to $51/yr. --Rick

_______________________________________________ sudo-discuss mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss

Reply

Patrik D'haeseleer

12:52 p.m.

Yep, that's a good example of the kind of statement the non-profit has to provide you. Although I still can't wrap my head around whether or not you can deduct membership benefits such as access to the space if you pay *more* than $75/yr. Do note that the only way you can fully deduct "token items" is when the organization *informs you that you can deduct your payment in full*. That's spelled out explicitly in Pub 526 (page 4, bottom left). It's entirely up to the organization to do the math to figure out whether a T-shirt qualifies as a "token item" and to inform you if it does. Not something the IRS wants you to decide on your own. Here's the guidelines for the organization to follow, to decide whether the value of an item or benefit is insubstantial, and can be counted as a "token item": http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-tege/rp_1990-12.pdf http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-tege/rp92_49.pdf http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/RP-12-41.pdf (Section 3.14) In particular: "The payment is $25 (adjusted for inflation as described below) or more and the only benefits received in connection with the payment are token items (bookmarks, calendars, key chains, mugs, posters, tee shirts, etc.) bearing the organization's name or logo. The cost (as opposed to fair market value) of all of the benefits received by a donor must, in the aggregate, be within the limits established for 'low cost articles' under section 513(h)(2) of the Code." "For taxable years beginning in 2013, for purposes of defining the term "unrelated trade or business" for certain exempt organizations under § 513(h)(2), "low cost articles" are articles costing $10.20 or less." So if the organization offers a $10 or less T-shirt with a logo, for a donation of $25 or more, then it can count as a "token item". But it does need to be within the context of a fund-raising campaign, and the organization must still tell the donors how much of their payment is a deductible contribution. Patrik <cya> I am not a CPA, and this is not official financial or legal advice. Consult your own personal bureaucrat. Just trying to figure this out for myself, because we'll need to know this crap for Counter Culture Labs as well. </cya> On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 12:06 PM, Danny Spitzberg <stationaery(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:

@Richard @Patrick, I'm motivated by what you say about deducting all donations. I'm no tax expert whatsoever BUT I have deducted whole donations in the past ($50 to buythissatellite.org for a t-shirt) and nobody ever said nothing............dot dot dot...... But playing it safe and by the books, here's an example from longnow.org (I pay member dues of $8/month which gives me free tickets to all talks/lectures) in which they make the same recommendation regarding "fair market value" (see below). It seems to me that Sudo can and should recommend full deductions, possibly because all member benefits are services (use of the space and shared tools/resources) not goods (no t-shirts or other swag). ---- Hello Members, We'd like to thank all of our members for the support you offer Long Now, through your financial contributions and by sharing your knowledge of the Foundation's work to foster long-term thinking. Did you know that many employers offer a gift-matching program? Your membership dues may be eligible; please consider increasing the impact of your gift, and check with your employer's HR office to learn more. You may need the following information: - Long Now's tax ID number: 68-0384748 - Our contact person: Whitney Deatherage whitney(a)longnow.org - The tax deductible amount of your donation Below you will find a table that you can use to determine how much of the membership dues you paid in 02013 are tax deductible. Your membership dues each year are considered a tax deductible donation, minus the value of the goods and services you have received. The Long Now Foundation is a California State and Federal Non-profit organization and our tax exempt number is 68-0384748. Add up how many months you were a Member in 02013: - Stainless Steel Members $8 for each month in 02013 - Monel Members $30 for each month in 02013 - Tungsten Members $90 for each month in 02013 - Equation of Time Cam Members $2,500 (annual payment) Then subtract the estimated fair market value of the gifts you received if it is your first year of membership: - Stainless Steel Members - $15 for your Membership card - Monel Members - $15 for your Membership card - $20 for your Works in Progress book - Tungsten Members - $15 for your Membership card - $20 for your Works in Progress book - $20 for your Brian Eno Bells CD - Equation of Time Cam Members - $15 for your Membership card - $20 for your Works in Progress book - $20 for your Brian Eno Bells CD - $150 for your Equation of Time Cam Here are some highlights from 02013: - 854 new Members joined Long Now in 02013, and we exceeded our goal of 5,000 Members - 12 Seminars <http://longnow.org/seminars/> to attend, listen to live<http://longnow.org/live/>e/>, and view online - Newly re-designed Seminar pages <http://longnow.org/seminars/> with easier search, sharable highlights and more - Construction begins<http://longnow.org/membership/newsletters/02013-september-equinox… the Long Now Museum re-design, fundraising continues <https://longnow.org/salon/> - Revive and Restore TEDx<http://longnow.org/membership/newsletters/02013-march-equinox/#arti… - PanLex hits a billion translations<http://blog.longnow.org/02013/10/02/panlex-hits-a-billion-t… - A Rosetta Disk is en route to comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko<http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Space_Scienc… board the ESA Rosetta Mission, scheduled to rendezvous with the comet in August 02014 - Partnership with the Future of Being Human<http://longnow.org/membership/newsletters/02013-december-solstice/… - Manual for Civilization<http://longnow.org/membership/newsletters/02013-june-solsti… launched - Dissident Futures<http://blog.longnow.org/02013/10/16/dissident-futures-at-ybca/&g… with Yerba Buena Center for the Arts - Partnership with swissnex on the Climate Change panel<http://longnow.org/membership/newsletters/02013-december-solstice/… Saul Griffith, Paul Hawken - and IPCC Scientists - Our new Bar Manager, Jennifer Colliau<http://longnow.org/membership/newsletters/02013-december-solstic…e2>, joins the Long Now team - 4 issues of the Quarterly News for Members<http://longnow.org/membership/newsletters/>published online And we're looking forward to some great new services and events in 02014: - Another great lineup of Seminars <http://longnow.org/seminars/> - Opening of the Long Now Salon <https://longnow.org/salon/> in the spring - Broadening the reach of the membership program<https://longnow.org/membership/>and offerings - More partnerships on thought provoking events and programming - and more to be announced in our Quarterly News for Members<http://longnow.org/membership/newsletters/> <http://longnow.org/membership/newsletters/> We're looking forward to another fascinating year - thank you again for your continuing support! On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 6:19 PM, eddan.com <eddan(a)sudoroom.tv> wrote:

Just a note, btw - All those monies deducted by individual contributors (at least), in addition to whatever else) also need to be accounted for in Sudo Room's financial reporting to the IRS. sent from eddan.com On Feb 25, 2014, at 5:44 PM, "Patrik D'haeseleer" <patrikd(a)gmail.com> wrote: But if membership fees are > $75/yr (and didn't we put a minimum of $10/mo?), that clause would not apply. The lowest membership level at GAFFTA and the Crucible is exactly $75/yr, which is probably why they can make it fully tax deductible. Of course, the Crucible also makes far more from class fees than membership fees. If you pay more than $75/yr, then the organization needs to give you a written statement explaining how much is deductible. *Except* they don't need to give you a statement if the only things you get are "token items" (such as key chains and T-shirts?) and "membership benefits that can be disregarded" (such admission to the facilities and member events). If you read that by the letter, that might mean that the organization doesn't need to give you the statement, but you still won't be able to deduct those "certain membership benefits"? Gah, who wrote this kinda crap? Spaghetti code ain't got nothing on it... http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p526.pdf Patrik On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 3:50 PM, Richard Karnesky <rakarne(a)sandia.gov>wrote;wrote:

On 02/25/2014 04:48 AM, Danny Spitzberg wrote:

You can usually deduct a donation minus the "fair market value" of what rewards (t-shirts, etc) you get in return ... I'd be curious to see what gray area works in out favor here with membership dues - if they can be construed as donations

GAFFTA membership fees are fully tax deductible, as are The Crucible's. Per IRS Publication 526: "Certain membership benefits can be disregarded. Both you and the organization can disregard the following membership benefits if you get them in return for an annual payment of $75 or less. 1. Any rights or privileges, other than those discussed under Athletic events , earlier, that you can use frequently while you are a member, such as: a. Free or discounted admission to the organization's facilities or events, ... c. Preferred access to goods or services,..." When/if sudo is recognized federally as a 501(c)3, I'd imagine dues would be deductible (unless I'm unaware of some additional tangible benefit of membership). Some organizations consider t-shirts and similar to be "token items" that do not decrease the deductible amount of your contribution (they cost the organization less than $10.20 each (presumably in quantity) and they bear the name/logo of the organization for donations greater than or equal to $51/yr. --Rick

_______________________________________________ sudo-discuss mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss

Reply

Patrik D'haeseleer

4:32 p.m.

Some of the other IRS docs are bit more clear on whether membership fees above $75/yr can be deductible: http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p1771.pdf "Membership Benefits Exception -- An annual membership benefit is also considered to be insubstantial *if it is provided in exchange for an annual payment of $75 or less* and consists of annual recurring rights or privileges, such as: 1. free or discounted admissions to the charitable organization's facilities or events [...]" So yeah, unless we're willing to drop the minimum membership fee to something like $6/mo, it looks like membership fees will not be fully deductible, and we may need to attach some fair value to intangible benefits such as access to the space etc. Patrik On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 12:52 PM, Patrik D'haeseleer <patrikd(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:

Yep, that's a good example of the kind of statement the non-profit has to provide you. Although I still can't wrap my head around whether or not you can deduct membership benefits such as access to the space if you pay *more* than $75/yr. Do note that the only way you can fully deduct "token items" is when the organization *informs you that you can deduct your payment in full*. That's spelled out explicitly in Pub 526 (page 4, bottom left). It's entirely up to the organization to do the math to figure out whether a T-shirt qualifies as a "token item" and to inform you if it does. Not something the IRS wants you to decide on your own. Here's the guidelines for the organization to follow, to decide whether the value of an item or benefit is insubstantial, and can be counted as a "token item": http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-tege/rp_1990-12.pdf http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-tege/rp92_49.pdf http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/RP-12-41.pdf (Section 3.14) In particular: "The payment is $25 (adjusted for inflation as described below) or more and the only benefits received in connection with the payment are token items (bookmarks, calendars, key chains, mugs, posters, tee shirts, etc.) bearing the organization's name or logo. The cost (as opposed to fair market value) of all of the benefits received by a donor must, in the aggregate, be within the limits established for 'low cost articles' under section 513(h)(2) of the Code." "For taxable years beginning in 2013, for purposes of defining the term "unrelated trade or business" for certain exempt organizations under § 513(h)(2), "low cost articles" are articles costing $10.20 or less." So if the organization offers a $10 or less T-shirt with a logo, for a donation of $25 or more, then it can count as a "token item". But it does need to be within the context of a fund-raising campaign, and the organization must still tell the donors how much of their payment is a deductible contribution. Patrik <cya> I am not a CPA, and this is not official financial or legal advice. Consult your own personal bureaucrat. Just trying to figure this out for myself, because we'll need to know this crap for Counter Culture Labs as well. </cya> On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 12:06 PM, Danny Spitzberg <stationaery(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:

@Richard @Patrick, I'm motivated by what you say about deducting all donations. I'm no tax expert whatsoever BUT I have deducted whole donations in the past ($50 to buythissatellite.org for a t-shirt) and nobody ever said nothing............dot dot dot...... But playing it safe and by the books, here's an example from longnow.org (I pay member dues of $8/month which gives me free tickets to all talks/lectures) in which they make the same recommendation regarding "fair market value" (see below). It seems to me that Sudo can and should recommend full deductions, possibly because all member benefits are services (use of the space and shared tools/resources) not goods (no t-shirts or other swag). ---- Hello Members, We'd like to thank all of our members for the support you offer Long Now, through your financial contributions and by sharing your knowledge of the Foundation's work to foster long-term thinking. Did you know that many employers offer a gift-matching program? Your membership dues may be eligible; please consider increasing the impact of your gift, and check with your employer's HR office to learn more. You may need the following information: - Long Now's tax ID number: 68-0384748 - Our contact person: Whitney Deatherage whitney(a)longnow.org - The tax deductible amount of your donation Below you will find a table that you can use to determine how much of the membership dues you paid in 02013 are tax deductible. Your membership dues each year are considered a tax deductible donation, minus the value of the goods and services you have received. The Long Now Foundation is a California State and Federal Non-profit organization and our tax exempt number is 68-0384748. Add up how many months you were a Member in 02013: - Stainless Steel Members $8 for each month in 02013 - Monel Members $30 for each month in 02013 - Tungsten Members $90 for each month in 02013 - Equation of Time Cam Members $2,500 (annual payment) Then subtract the estimated fair market value of the gifts you received if it is your first year of membership: - Stainless Steel Members - $15 for your Membership card - Monel Members - $15 for your Membership card - $20 for your Works in Progress book - Tungsten Members - $15 for your Membership card - $20 for your Works in Progress book - $20 for your Brian Eno Bells CD - Equation of Time Cam Members - $15 for your Membership card - $20 for your Works in Progress book - $20 for your Brian Eno Bells CD - $150 for your Equation of Time Cam Here are some highlights from 02013: - 854 new Members joined Long Now in 02013, and we exceeded our goal of 5,000 Members - 12 Seminars <http://longnow.org/seminars/> to attend, listen to live<http://longnow.org/live/>e/>, and view online - Newly re-designed Seminar pages <http://longnow.org/seminars/> with easier search, sharable highlights and more - Construction begins<http://longnow.org/membership/newsletters/02013-september-equinox… the Long Now Museum re-design, fundraising continues <https://longnow.org/salon/> - Revive and Restore TEDx<http://longnow.org/membership/newsletters/02013-march-equinox/#arti… - PanLex hits a billion translations<http://blog.longnow.org/02013/10/02/panlex-hits-a-billion-t… - A Rosetta Disk is en route to comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko<http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Space_Scienc… board the ESA Rosetta Mission, scheduled to rendezvous with the comet in August 02014 - Partnership with the Future of Being Human<http://longnow.org/membership/newsletters/02013-december-solstice/… - Manual for Civilization<http://longnow.org/membership/newsletters/02013-june-solsti… launched - Dissident Futures<http://blog.longnow.org/02013/10/16/dissident-futures-at-ybca/&g… with Yerba Buena Center for the Arts - Partnership with swissnex on the Climate Change panel<http://longnow.org/membership/newsletters/02013-december-solstice/… Saul Griffith, Paul Hawken - and IPCC Scientists - Our new Bar Manager, Jennifer Colliau<http://longnow.org/membership/newsletters/02013-december-solstic…e2>, joins the Long Now team - 4 issues of the Quarterly News for Members<http://longnow.org/membership/newsletters/>published online And we're looking forward to some great new services and events in 02014: - Another great lineup of Seminars <http://longnow.org/seminars/> - Opening of the Long Now Salon <https://longnow.org/salon/> in the spring - Broadening the reach of the membership program<https://longnow.org/membership/>and offerings - More partnerships on thought provoking events and programming - and more to be announced in our Quarterly News for Members<http://longnow.org/membership/newsletters/> <http://longnow.org/membership/newsletters/> We're looking forward to another fascinating year - thank you again for your continuing support! On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 6:19 PM, eddan.com <eddan(a)sudoroom.tv> wrote:

Just a note, btw - All those monies deducted by individual contributors (at least), in addition to whatever else) also need to be accounted for in Sudo Room's financial reporting to the IRS. sent from eddan.com On Feb 25, 2014, at 5:44 PM, "Patrik D'haeseleer" <patrikd(a)gmail.com> wrote: But if membership fees are > $75/yr (and didn't we put a minimum of $10/mo?), that clause would not apply. The lowest membership level at GAFFTA and the Crucible is exactly $75/yr, which is probably why they can make it fully tax deductible. Of course, the Crucible also makes far more from class fees than membership fees. If you pay more than $75/yr, then the organization needs to give you a written statement explaining how much is deductible. *Except* they don't need to give you a statement if the only things you get are "token items" (such as key chains and T-shirts?) and "membership benefits that can be disregarded" (such admission to the facilities and member events). If you read that by the letter, that might mean that the organization doesn't need to give you the statement, but you still won't be able to deduct those "certain membership benefits"? Gah, who wrote this kinda crap? Spaghetti code ain't got nothing on it... http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p526.pdf Patrik On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 3:50 PM, Richard Karnesky <rakarne(a)sandia.gov>wrote;wrote:

On 02/25/2014 04:48 AM, Danny Spitzberg wrote: > You can usually deduct a donation minus the "fair market value" of what > rewards (t-shirts, etc) you get in return ... I'd be curious to see > what > gray area works in out favor here with membership dues - if they can be > construed as donations > GAFFTA membership fees are fully tax deductible, as are The Crucible's. Per IRS Publication 526: "Certain membership benefits can be disregarded. Both you and the organization can disregard the following membership benefits if you get them in return for an annual payment of $75 or less. 1. Any rights or privileges, other than those discussed under Athletic events , earlier, that you can use frequently while you are a member, such as: a. Free or discounted admission to the organization's facilities or events, ... c. Preferred access to goods or services,..." When/if sudo is recognized federally as a 501(c)3, I'd imagine dues would be deductible (unless I'm unaware of some additional tangible benefit of membership). Some organizations consider t-shirts and similar to be "token items" that do not decrease the deductible amount of your contribution (they cost the organization less than $10.20 each (presumably in quantity) and they bear the name/logo of the organization for donations greater than or equal to $51/yr. --Rick

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Rick Karnesky

4:54 p.m.

New subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Taxes

If it is relatively easy for non-members to gain free access to the space, programming, and resources, isn't the "value" members receive is quite low. If, however, you only allow members access to some of those things, the value is obviously much higher. Decreasing the "per member" share of shared expenses would seem to diminish the "value" provided. So: (i) increase non-membership incomes (so donations, rather than dues are paying for many hard-to-value items), (ii) increase total income (more members? more goods/services/programming for which you charge?), or (iii) decrease operating expenses. Most other hackerspaces say either "taxes are hard. consult a tax specialist" (e.g. noisebridge and hacker dojo) or "dues are not deductible (e.g. AMT). The latter seems overly conservative, but the former doesn't communicate with members the benefits they are entitled to. Form 990 (think 1040 for 501(c)(3)s) has a line for the benefits paid to or for members. So, all 501(c)(3)s have to do that hard job of defining these values anyway. Surely they don't just say that is equal to the dues times the number of members? --Rick

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Craig Rouskey
Danny Spitzberg
eddan.com
Hol Gaskill
Max Klein
Patrik D'haeseleer
Richard Karnesky
Rick Karnesky