On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 3:54 PM, J.C. <r33lmm(a)gmail.com> wrote: Co-working? yes Makerspace? yah Tech startups? check $200 monthly dues? yep For profit? nothing stated to the contrary. seems likely. Hierarchical organizational structure? assumed guilty until proven innocent Attempt to make their business venture more successful by luring in hackers from local non-profits? sounds like it "People frequently ask me how I came to be such an unconventional thinker and unusual serial entrepreneur. ... " -- Darren Overby By being unusually modest? No? Oh, wait, is the answer: By co-opting existing open communities into for-profit organizations? If this is actually a non-hierarchical non-profit, then color me embarrassed. Someone please let me know that I'm wrong. Please. -- Marc _______________________________________________ Noisebridge-discuss mailing list Noisebridge-discuss(a)lists.noisebridge.net https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss

Seems like sort of a blend of Tech Liminal, Techshop, and a hacker space. Not clear why you think it's a bad thing. I don't see it claiming to be anything that it is not. Steve On Monday, July 1, 2013, Marc Juul wrote: -- -steve _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss

hackerspaces are combination office space and utopian capital sharing experiment, not to be confused with just shared work space. A place where "all you get is a desk and an internet connection" isn't a hackerspace, it's just a shared work space, even if the people are doing programming for work. I'm not surprised at all to see someone who's into hackerspaces for the second reason get annoyed when he thinks a hackerspce is getting confused with a work space. On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 4:01 PM, David Rorex <drorex(a)gmail.com> wrote: _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss

No, actual solution: people who are attached to a certain idea of a hackerspace give a hard time to people who aren't/ had a different idea. People on each side decide whether and how much to adjust their behavior or beliefs to avoid future interpersonal unpleasantness. On Sunday, July 7, 2013, Jehan Tremback wrote: _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss

Hacker spaces aren't that new to me. I lived in Berlin and led art meetings at art squats like tacheles. Noisebridge reminds me of the squats in Berlin or NYC there just seem to be more tech than artists ... The community and conflicts remind me of typical art collective stuff.. --- Romy Ilano romy(a)snowyla.com <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', &#39;romy(a)snowyla.com&#39;);&gt; On Jul 8, 2013, at 0:42, Andrew &lt;andrew(a)roshambomedia.com&gt; wrote: Or just get over it and realize that "hackerspaces" are so far removed from any real historical context that there is no such thing as a "true" hackerspace. I could call my bedroom a hackerspace for all the good it does. and my couch a "hacker" cause it can also be a bed. Culture wars will get you nothing but shity, stale, overanalized dead horses we like to parade as culture. --Andrew On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 10:48 PM, Sonja Trauss &lt;sonja.trauss(a)gmail.com&gt;wrote;wrote: No, actual solution: people who are attached to a certain idea of a hackerspace give a hard time to people who aren't/ had a different idea. People on each side decide whether and how much to adjust their behavior or beliefs to avoid future interpersonal unpleasantness. On Sunday, July 7, 2013, Jehan Tremback wrote: Possible solution: Trademark the term "hackerspace", sue those who do not meet stringent ideological requirements. On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 9:29 PM, Sonja Trauss &lt;sonja.trauss(a)gmail.com&gt;wrote;wrote: hackerspaces are combination office space and utopian capital sharing experiment, not to be confused with just shared work space. A place where "all you get is a desk and an internet connection" isn't a hackerspace, it's just a shared work space, even if the people are doing programming for work. I'm not surprised at all to see someone who's into hackerspaces for the second reason get annoyed when he thinks a hackerspce is getting confused with a work space. On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 4:01 PM, David Rorex &lt;drorex(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: Seriously, give the guy a break. It's attitudes like Marc's that drive away people from the "true" hackerspaces. Live and let live: just because his space has a different organizational model than yours doesn't mean it's some sort of evil masterplan to steal all your members and get rich by squeezing money out of them. There are spaces in sf / oakland that charge $250 a month and all you get is a desk and an internet connection. There's room for a whole spectrum of spaces in the bay area. Mitch Altman's dream is a day where there are more hackerspaces than liquor stores. On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 4:27 PM, Steve Berl &lt;steveberl(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: Seems like sort of a blend of Tech Liminal, Techshop, and a hacker space. Not clear why you think it's a bad thing. I don't see it claiming to be anything that it is not. Steve On Monday, July 1, 2013, Marc Juul wrote: On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 3:54 PM, J.C. &lt;r33lmm(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 3:48 PM, Darren Overby &lt;darren(a)rockitcolabs.com&gt;wrote;wrote: Excuse the interruption Noisebridge fans, In the interest of possible cross-pollination, I wanted to let you know about a new place to hack - RocSounds like a crap attempt at kIT CoLabs<http://www.rockitcolabs.com/noisebridge-invite>te>. Co-working? yes Makerspace? yah Tech startups? check $200 monthly dues? yep For profit? nothing stated to the contrary. seems likely. Hierarchical organizational structure? assumed guilty until proven innocent Attempt to make their business v

No, actual solution: people who are attached to a certain idea of a hackerspace give a hard time to people who aren't/ had a different idea. People on each side decide whether and how much to adjust their behavior or beliefs to avoid future interpersonal unpleasantness. On Sunday, July 7, 2013, Jehan Tremback wrote: > Possible solution: Trademark the term "hackerspace", sue those who do not meet stringent ideological requirements. > > > On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 9:29 PM, Sonja Trauss &lt;sonja.trauss(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > hackerspaces are combination office space and utopian capital sharing experiment, not to be confused with just shared work space. A place where "all you get is a desk and an internet connection" isn't a hackerspace, it's just a shared work space, even if the people are doing programming for work. > I'm not surprised at all to see someone who's into hackerspaces for the second reason get annoyed when he thinks a hackerspce is getting confused with a work space. > > > On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 4:01 PM, David Rorex &lt;drorex(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > Seriously, give the guy a break. It's attitudes like Marc's that drive away people from the "true" hackerspaces. Live and let live: just because his space has a different organizational model than yours doesn't mean it's some sort of evil masterplan to steal all your members and get rich by squeezing money out of them. There are spaces in sf / oakland that charge $250 a month and all you get is a desk and an internet connection. There's room for a whole spectrum of spaces in the bay area. Mitch Altman's dream is a day where there are more hackerspaces than liquor stores. > > > On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 4:27 PM, Steve Berl &lt;steveberl(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > Seems like sort of a blend of Tech Liminal, Techshop, and a hacker space. Not clear why you think it's a bad thing. I don't see it claiming to be anything that it is not. > > Steve > > > On Monday, July 1, 2013, Marc Juul wrote: > On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 3:54 PM, J.C. &lt;r33lmm(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 3:48 PM, Darren Overby &lt;darren(a)rockitcolabs.com&gt; wrote: > Excuse the interruption Noisebridge fans, > > In the interest of possible cross-pollination, I wanted to let you know about a new place to hack - RocSounds like a crap attempt at kIT CoLabs. > > Co-working? yes > > Makerspace? yah > > Tech startups? check > > $200 monthly dues? yep > > For profit? nothing stated to the contrary. seems likely. > > Hierarchical organizational structure? assumed guilty until proven innocent > > Attempt to make their business venture more successful by luring in hackers from local non-profits? sounds like it > > "People frequently ask me how I came to be such an unconventional thinker and unusual serial entrepreneur. ... " -- Darren Overby > > By being unusually modest? No? Oh, wait, is the answer: By co-opting existing open communities into for-profit organizations? > > If this is actually a non-hierarchical non-profit, then color me embarrassed. > > Someone please let me know that I'm wrong. Please. > > -- > Marc > > > -- > -steve > > _______________________________________________ > sudo-discuss mailing list > sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-d