like it says on the tin: http://venturebeat.com/2014/01/29/california-regulator-seeks-to-shut-down-l… _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss

What this is about: The bootcamps in question are charging in the range of $15,000 for 10-week programs, and telling applicants they're going to be able to get job offers at companies such as Facebook, Google, and Adobe. (Personally I'd sooner work for NSA than Google or Facebook.) The existing ones are probably wholly legit. But there is a large risk of fraudsters offering these types of courses with big promises, and fleecing their students. There are many examples of that in other areas of vocational & technical training. That's what the regulators are freaked out about: big money for the courses, and big promises of high-paid employment. There is nothing there to say that regulators are concerned about FREE courses that do NOT make claims of high-paid employment upon completion. Grassroots-based free stuff such as what I imagine SR, Noisebridge, et.al. are offering, are in NO risk of being shut down or subjected to fines. A modest proposal: Free grassroots hacker bootcamps should also teach people about workers' issues: how to organize a union without getting fired, workers' rights re. wages & hours laws, and so on. The idea that coders, engineers, etc. are some kind of elite that are "above" the working class masses, is a hallucination promoted by those who profit by exploiting young & inexperienced workers. We are the 21st century equivalent of electricians, plumbers, carpenters, masons, and mechanics: the new skilled trades that are building the new infrastructure. We should be darn proud of continuing a tradition that started with the steam engine, indoor plumbing, and the bicycle. But the interests of labor have never been the same as the interests of capital. Our smarts & skills can potentially do as much for the well-being of working people everywhere, as they can for the technologies we build. -G. ====== On 14-01-30-Thu 4:51 PM, Hol Gaskill wrote: http://venturebeat.com/2014/01/29/california-regulator-seeks-to-shut-down-l… _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss

right on. i think the saying "it's not what you can do - it's what you can get other people to do for you" applies with a twist - programming frees us by giving us a way of giving instructions to machines that will tirelessly do our bidding. the tedious tasks can be automated and you can be free to focus on the creative and subtle parts. the earlier humans learn this, the more they will be able to accomplish within a limited lifespan. who will program the programmers? what is the control structure of our daily lives? did we write it ourselves? in general i am opposed to the conversion of inherent rights to state-granted privileges and the insertion of valves and regulators into systems that wind up just choking the flow without performing any kind of useful regulating behavior. is this really about public safety or is it a push-back against the democratization of education and an attempt to reduce the competitiveness of these new approaches regardless of truth in advertising? Jan 30, 2014 06:23:57 PM, di.franco(a)gmail.com wrote: Outside of the narrow regulatory question, this reminds me of another relating to the vocationalization of programming to supply commoditized labor to large corporations, which is something I am uneasy around and which I think reflects a shifting power balance that deserves to be opposed. Here is a line of criticism that I think is right on, running from Seymour Papert to Bret Victor to this: Bret juxtaposes the ideals of Seymour Papert and the dreams of entrepreneurs and venture capitalists. Papert wanted to use programming as a way to let children explore powerful ideas and let their imagination run wild. The agenda of the political, wealthy, and powerful is to build a new generation of worker bees to fuel their startups. One sees code as a liberation, and the other as a vocation..." >On Thu, Jan 30, 2014 at 6:15 PM, GtwoG PublicOhOne g2g-public01(a)att.net> wrote: What this is about: The bootcamps in question are charging in the range of $15,000 for 10-week programs, and telling applicants they're going to be able to get job offers at companies such as Facebook, Google, and Adobe. (Personally I'd sooner work for NSA than Google or Facebook.) The existing ones are probably wholly legit. But there is a large risk of fraudsters offering these types of courses with big promises, and fleecing their students. There are many examples of that in other areas of vocational & technical training. That's what the regulators are freaked out about: big money for the courses, and big promises of high-paid employment. There is nothing there to say that regulators are concerned about FREE courses that do NOT make claims of high-paid employment upon completion. Grassroots-based free stuff such as what I imagine SR, Noisebridge, et.al. are offering, are in NO risk of being shut down or subjected to fines. A modest proposal: Free grassroots hacker bootcamps should also teach people about workers' issues: how to organize a union without getting fired, workers' rights re. wages & hours laws, and so on. The idea that coders, engineers, etc. are some kind of elite that are "above" the working class masses, is a hallucination promoted by those who profit by exploiting young & inexperienced workers. We are the 21st century equivalent of electricians, plumbers, carpenters, masons, and mechanics: the new skilled trades that are building the new infrastructure. We should be darn proud of continuing a tradition that started with the steam engine, indoor plumbing, and the bicycle. But the interests of labor have never been the same as the interests of capital. Our smarts & skills can potentially do as much for the well-being of working people everywhere, as they can for the technologies we build. -G. ====== On 14-01-30-Thu 4:51 PM, Hol Gaskill wrote: > like it says on the tin: http://venturebeat.com/2014/01/29/california-regulator-seeks-to-shut-down-l… > _______________________________________________ > sudo-discuss mailing list > sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss