-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 I support everybody who provides food to Oakland, as we definitely don't have enough grocery stores in the area, but these stores shouldn't be referred to as being the same thing. While it's called the People's Community Market, it is not owned by the people, it's owned by a corporation. It's capitalistic and profits that are made by the corporation will go to the owners of it, not the people working there. The worker's wages will always be seen as a cost to the owners and the profits created by the workers will be stolen from them. Meanwhile, the workers at the Mandela Food Cooperative are the owners and the profits made by the workers will go to them. I understand that we need more grocery stores with fresh produce in the area, but I don't see that as an excuse to exploit the workers. Take care, Jeremy On 02/04/2014 06:26 AM, Marina Kukso wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 If it were a loan with a portion of the profits going to the investors (initial amount plus interest), which will eventually become a worker cooperative, then that's an amazing idea. We need more people to finance worker cooperatives, but I didn't see any evidence of that on their website. I have nothing against investors or investment other than they usually own the means of production after the initial investment. I want workers to own the means of production after the investment has been returned to the investor. On 02/04/2014 11:19 AM, Hol Gaskill wrote: I was at west Oakland Bart and shopped at a worker run and owned

I don't know if this is exactly how it would convert to a coop, but... Finally, it is a goal of PCM to become an employee owned and controlled business in the future. Although the Company has not yet implemented any steps toward becoming an employee owned enterprise, and recognizes the possibility under certain circumstance that such steps may not be implemented, a general process for how the Company could potentially advance toward becoming an employee-owned business has been drafted. A central element of this process would be an equity incentive plan (EIP) that would provide employees with either option grants or restricted stock awards. Stock would be awarded to employees on the basis of individual performance and merit. Employees would be eligible for such awards upon completion of their first full year of employment <<< On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 12:54 PM, Hol Gaskill &lt;hol(a)gaskill.com&gt; wrote: > they might say in their offering memo: > > http://peoplesmarket.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/PCM… > > > Feb 4, 2014 12:38:51 PM, jwentwistle(a)cryptolab.net wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > >Hash: SHA256 > > > >If it were a loan with a portion of the profits going to the investors > >(initial amount plus interest), which will eventually become a worker > >cooperative, then that's an amazing idea. We need more people to > >finance worker cooperatives, but I didn't see any evidence of that on > >their website. I have nothing against investors or investment other > >than they usually own the means of production after the initial > >investment. I want workers to own the means of production after the > >investment has been returned to the investor. > > > >On 02/04/2014 11:19 AM, Hol Gaskill wrote: > >> Looks like they give investors a 3% return, which is considerably > >> lower than what would be sought by venture capitalist crowd. I am > >> a huge supporter of cooperatives and worker ownership but there has > >> to be room for financial engagement with the broader community who > >> have other trades. Alot of cooperatives have to secure loans (from > >> chase bank et al in many cases!) in the form of mortgages or to > >> provide working capital. I think if in reshaping the economic > >> landscape we have to wait for people who are going to be doing the > >> entry level manual tasks to throw down their share of the working > >> capital, we will die waiting. I don't really know much about this > >> organization in detail, just had been looking over their site and > >> wanted to put in my 0.02 > >> > >> I also recognize a few of these evil capitalists > >> http://peoplescommunitymarket.com/testimonials/ > >> > >> Anybody have info on what they pay their workers? > >> > >> cheers > >> > >> > >> Feb 4, 2014 11:04:22 AM, jwentwistle(a)cryptolab.net wrote: > >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > >>> Hash: SHA256 > > >>> I support everybody who provides food to Oakland, as we > >>> definitely don't have enough grocery stores in the area, but > >>> these stores shouldn't be referred to as being the same thing. > > >>> While it's called the People's Community Market, it is not owned > >>> by the people, it's owned by a corporation. It's capitalistic and > >>> profits that are made by the corporation will go to the owners of > >>> it, not the people working there. The worker's wages will always > >>> be seen as a cost to the owners and the profits created by the > >>> workers will be stolen from them. Meanwhile, the workers at the > >>> Mandela Food Cooperative are the owners and the profits made by > >>> the workers will go to them. > > >>> I understand that we need more grocery stores with fresh produce > >>> in the area, but I don't see that as an excuse to exploit the > >>> workers. > > >>> Take care, Jeremy > > >>> On 02/04/2014 06:26 AM, Marina Kukso wrote: > >>>> you might want to just talk to them to learn more about the > >>>> other activities they do and ways that you can contribute. that > >>>> might be the best way to learn about ways to contribute that > >>>> might be useful to them. > >> >>>> also, have you heard of the people's community market? > >>>> http://peoplescommunitymarket.com/ > >> >> >>>> On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 3:14 AM, Romy Snowyla romy(a)snowyla.com > >>>> mailto:romy@snowyla.com>> wrote: > >> >> http://www.american.coop/content/video-mandela-foods-cooperative-and-west-o… > >> >> >> >> >> >I was at west Oakland Bart and shopped at a worker run and owned > >>>> cooperative Mandela foods. > >> >>>> It's amazing ! I enjoyed the mass effect night of collectives > >>>> at sudoroom. > >> >>>> What are ways sudoroom and or I can help support Mandela foods > >>>> besides shopping there? > >> >>>> Sent from my iPhone > >>>> _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss > >>>> mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org > >>>> mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org> > >>>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss > >> >> >> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss > >>>> mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org > >>>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss > > > >>> _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss > >>> mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org > >>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss > > >> > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > sudo-discuss mailing list > sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss >