18 Nov
2013
18 Nov
'13
6:55 p.m.
Receiving and contemplating the perspectives of others is one of my
favorite ways to burn metaphorical CPU cycles. The level of respect I
show for differing perspectives is something I hope to never be
content with, that is to say I believe it's an endless process and I'm
still working on it. I have a tendency to keep my head stuck in
projects and have realized is that I've been holding out on sharing
many of my most valued perspectives, more specifically my experiences.
It is my hope that through sharing experiences we can better
understand how to conduct ourselves within Sudo Room and how we Sudo
Room can better conduct ourselves within our local community.
I arrived in the "bay area" May 1st by way of some airport in New
England, in search of hackers, activists and uncomfortable
experiences. After subletting an apartment in the mission for all of a
month I moved to West Oakland. Since arriving in Oakland I've been
robbed three times, to me each experience has been indescribably
educational in its own way. However, my first crime related experience
in Oakland was not a crime at all.
There is a corner store within ~6 minutes walking distance from my
apartment by West Oakland BART called Happy Times. To me it is usually
a liquor store, but this day I felt like working through the night so
I bought 2 large redbull energy drinks. Walking home holding the
redbull as best I could in one hand I passed two African-American
youths, one female, one male and both no older than 17. We passed each
other and at this time I was about 20" from home then from behind me I
heard "hey man, can I get a redbull?".
I turned around to face the two of them with a bit of a guilty smile
on my face, after all who the fuck really needs 32oz of redbull?
Caffeine, other energy drinks, productivity and I all get along
swimmingly, all the better if I can help someone else get things done.
"Sure" I said, followed by "make good use of it" in an attempt to
make
the situation more casual. I walked up and handed him the redbull, his
face lit up, he went nuts.
**and I quote** "Oh man! Asking is so much better than stealing!"
The smile stayed on his face as he continued celebrating, exclaiming
all possible iterations of the above statement as I stood their
dumbfounded. This continued for minutes until we parted ways, up the
stairs and into the house I could still hear him talking with his friend.
This was certainly not the first time he'd been told of this
sentiment, but after ~17 years of living it was the first time he had
ever believed it. There are at least 3 other experiences I would like
to share in time, but for now I'll leave it at this.
--
-- rhodey ˙ ͜ʟ˙
18 Nov
18 Nov
7:12 p.m.
New subject: my experiences with "crime" in oakland [part 1 of ?]
this reminds me of a comment I overheard on the bus when I lived in st
louis:
"I'm getting that government money man, fuck street money, it ain't even
worth it."
ps are you a boy or a girl?
On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 6:55 PM, rhodey <rhodey(a)anhonesteffort.org> wrote:
Receiving and contemplating the perspectives of others
is one of my
favorite ways to burn metaphorical CPU cycles. The level of respect I
show for differing perspectives is something I hope to never be
content with, that is to say I believe it's an endless process and I'm
still working on it. I have a tendency to keep my head stuck in
projects and have realized is that I've been holding out on sharing
many of my most valued perspectives, more specifically my experiences.
It is my hope that through sharing experiences we can better
understand how to conduct ourselves within Sudo Room and how we Sudo
Room can better conduct ourselves within our local community.
I arrived in the "bay area" May 1st by way of some airport in New
England, in search of hackers, activists and uncomfortable
experiences. After subletting an apartment in the mission for all of a
month I moved to West Oakland. Since arriving in Oakland I've been
robbed three times, to me each experience has been indescribably
educational in its own way. However, my first crime related experience
in Oakland was not a crime at all.
There is a corner store within ~6 minutes walking distance from my
apartment by West Oakland BART called Happy Times. To me it is usually
a liquor store, but this day I felt like working through the night so
I bought 2 large redbull energy drinks. Walking home holding the
redbull as best I could in one hand I passed two African-American
youths, one female, one male and both no older than 17. We passed each
other and at this time I was about 20" from home then from behind me I
heard "hey man, can I get a redbull?".
I turned around to face the two of them with a bit of a guilty smile
on my face, after all who the fuck really needs 32oz of redbull?
Caffeine, other energy drinks, productivity and I all get along
swimmingly, all the better if I can help someone else get things done.
"Sure" I said, followed by "make good use of it" in an attempt to
make
the situation more casual. I walked up and handed him the redbull, his
face lit up, he went nuts.
**and I quote** "Oh man! Asking is so much better than stealing!"
The smile stayed on his face as he continued celebrating, exclaiming
all possible iterations of the above statement as I stood their
dumbfounded. This continued for minutes until we parted ways, up the
stairs and into the house I could still hear him talking with his friend.
This was certainly not the first time he'd been told of this
sentiment, but after ~17 years of living it was the first time he had
ever believed it. There are at least 3 other experiences I would like
to share in time, but for now I'll leave it at this.
--
-- rhodey ˙ ͜ʟ˙
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
7:36 p.m.
Oh yes, it is worth noting that I'm a white male in his early 20s.
--
-- rhodey ˙ ͜ʟ˙
On 11/18/2013 07:12 PM, Sonja Trauss wrote:
this reminds me of a comment I overheard on the bus
when I lived in st
louis:
"I'm getting that government money man, fuck street money, it ain't even
worth it."
ps are you a boy or a girl?
On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 6:55 PM, rhodey <rhodey(a)anhonesteffort.org
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>> wrote:
Receiving and contemplating the perspectives of others is one of my
favorite ways to burn metaphorical CPU cycles. The level of respect I
show for differing perspectives is something I hope to never be
content with, that is to say I believe it's an endless process and I'm
still working on it. I have a tendency to keep my head stuck in
projects and have realized is that I've been holding out on sharing
many of my most valued perspectives, more specifically my experiences.
It is my hope that through sharing experiences we can better
understand how to conduct ourselves within Sudo Room and how we Sudo
Room can better conduct ourselves within our local community.
I arrived in the "bay area" May 1st by way of some airport in New
England, in search of hackers, activists and uncomfortable
experiences. After subletting an apartment in the mission for all of a
month I moved to West Oakland. Since arriving in Oakland I've been
robbed three times, to me each experience has been indescribably
educational in its own way. However, my first crime related experience
in Oakland was not a crime at all.
There is a corner store within ~6 minutes walking distance from my
apartment by West Oakland BART called Happy Times. To me it is usually
a liquor store, but this day I felt like working through the night so
I bought 2 large redbull energy drinks. Walking home holding the
redbull as best I could in one hand I passed two African-American
youths, one female, one male and both no older than 17. We passed each
other and at this time I was about 20" from home then from behind me I
heard "hey man, can I get a redbull?".
I turned around to face the two of them with a bit of a guilty smile
on my face, after all who the fuck really needs 32oz of redbull?
Caffeine, other energy drinks, productivity and I all get along
swimmingly, all the better if I can help someone else get things done.
"Sure" I said, followed by "make good use of it" in an attempt to
make
the situation more casual. I walked up and handed him the redbull, his
face lit up, he went nuts.
**and I quote** "Oh man! Asking is so much better than stealing!"
The smile stayed on his face as he continued celebrating, exclaiming
all possible iterations of the above statement as I stood their
dumbfounded. This continued for minutes until we parted ways, up the
stairs and into the house I could still hear him talking with his
friend.
This was certainly not the first time he'd been told of this
sentiment, but after ~17 years of living it was the first time he had
ever believed it. There are at least 3 other experiences I would like
to share in time, but for now I'll leave it at this.
--
-- rhodey ˙ ͜ʟ˙
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org <mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>
http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
7:50 p.m.
New subject: my experiences with "crime" in oakland [part 1 of ?]
To all the people sharing fun stories and uplifting anecdotes about
encountering black people in Oakland: Let's not forget that there are
actually some on this list. In fact, I'm one of them!
On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 7:36 PM, rhodey <rhodey(a)anhonesteffort.org> wrote:
Oh yes, it is worth noting that I'm a white male
in his early 20s.
--
-- rhodey ˙ ͜ʟ˙
On 11/18/2013 07:12 PM, Sonja Trauss wrote:
this reminds me of a comment I overheard on the
bus when I lived in st
louis:
"I'm getting that government money man, fuck street money, it ain't even
worth it."
ps are you a boy or a girl?
On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 6:55 PM, rhodey <rhodey(a)anhonesteffort.org
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>> wrote:
Receiving and contemplating the perspectives of others is one of my
favorite ways to burn metaphorical CPU cycles. The level of respect I
show for differing perspectives is something I hope to never be
content with, that is to say I believe it's an endless process and
I'm
still working on it. I have a tendency to
keep my head stuck in
projects and have realized is that I've been holding out on sharing
many of my most valued perspectives, more specifically my
experiences.
It is my hope that through sharing
experiences we can better
understand how to conduct ourselves within Sudo Room and how we Sudo
Room can better conduct ourselves within our local community.
I arrived in the "bay area" May 1st by way of some airport in New
England, in search of hackers, activists and uncomfortable
experiences. After subletting an apartment in the mission for all of
a
month I moved to West Oakland. Since arriving
in Oakland I've been
robbed three times, to me each experience has been indescribably
educational in its own way. However, my first crime related
experience
in Oakland was not a crime at all.
There is a corner store within ~6 minutes walking distance from my
apartment by West Oakland BART called Happy Times. To me it is
usually
a liquor store, but this day I felt like
working through the night so
I bought 2 large redbull energy drinks. Walking home holding the
redbull as best I could in one hand I passed two African-American
youths, one female, one male and both no older than 17. We passed
each
other and at this time I was about 20"
from home then from behind me
I
heard "hey man, can I get a
redbull?".
I turned around to face the two of them with a bit of a guilty smile
on my face, after all who the fuck really needs 32oz of redbull?
Caffeine, other energy drinks, productivity and I all get along
swimmingly, all the better if I can help someone else get things
done.
"Sure" I said, followed by
"make good use of it" in an attempt to
make
the situation more casual. I walked up and
handed him the redbull,
his
face lit up, he went nuts.
**and I quote** "Oh man! Asking is so much better than stealing!"
The smile stayed on his face as he continued celebrating, exclaiming
all possible iterations of the above statement as I stood their
dumbfounded. This continued for minutes until we parted ways, up the
stairs and into the house I could still hear him talking with his
friend.
This was certainly not the first time he'd been told of this
sentiment, but after ~17 years of living it was the first time he had
ever believed it. There are at least 3 other experiences I would like
to share in time, but for now I'll leave it at this.
--
-- rhodey ˙ ͜ʟ˙
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org <mailto:
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org>
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
7:57 p.m.
New subject: my experiences with "crime" in oakland [part 1 of ?]
what are you saying David - all black people are robbers?
On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 7:50 PM, David Barthwell <david(a)vergegraphics.com>wrote;wrote:
To all the people sharing fun stories and uplifting
anecdotes about
encountering black people in Oakland: Let's not forget that there are
actually some on this list. In fact, I'm one of them!
On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 7:36 PM, rhodey <rhodey(a)anhonesteffort.org> wrote:
Oh yes, it is worth noting that I'm a white
male in his early 20s.
--
-- rhodey ˙ ͜ʟ˙
On 11/18/2013 07:12 PM, Sonja Trauss wrote:
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
this reminds me of a comment I overheard on the
bus when I lived in st
louis:
"I'm getting that government money man, fuck street money, it ain't even
worth it."
ps are you a boy or a girl?
On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 6:55 PM, rhodey <rhodey(a)anhonesteffort.org
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>> wrote:
Receiving and contemplating the perspectives of others is one of my
favorite ways to burn metaphorical CPU cycles. The level of respect
I
show for differing perspectives is something
I hope to never be
content with, that is to say I believe it's an endless process and
I'm
still working on it. I have a tendency to
keep my head stuck in
projects and have realized is that I've been holding out on sharing
many of my most valued perspectives, more specifically my
experiences.
It is my hope that through sharing
experiences we can better
understand how to conduct ourselves within Sudo Room and how we Sudo
Room can better conduct ourselves within our local community.
I arrived in the "bay area" May 1st by way of some airport in New
England, in search of hackers, activists and uncomfortable
experiences. After subletting an apartment in the mission for all
of a
month I moved to West Oakland. Since arriving
in Oakland I've been
robbed three times, to me each experience has been indescribably
educational in its own way. However, my first crime related
experience
in Oakland was not a crime at all.
There is a corner store within ~6 minutes walking distance from my
apartment by West Oakland BART called Happy Times. To me it is
usually
a liquor store, but this day I felt like
working through the night
so
I bought 2 large redbull energy drinks.
Walking home holding the
redbull as best I could in one hand I passed two African-American
youths, one female, one male and both no older than 17. We passed
each
other and at this time I was about 20"
from home then from behind
me I
heard "hey man, can I get a
redbull?".
I turned around to face the two of them with a bit of a guilty smile
on my face, after all who the fuck really needs 32oz of redbull?
Caffeine, other energy drinks, productivity and I all get along
swimmingly, all the better if I can help someone else get things
done.
"Sure" I said, followed by
"make good use of it" in an attempt to
make
the situation more casual. I walked up and
handed him the redbull,
his
face lit up, he went nuts.
**and I quote** "Oh man! Asking is so much better than stealing!"
The smile stayed on his face as he continued celebrating, exclaiming
all possible iterations of the above statement as I stood their
dumbfounded. This continued for minutes until we parted ways, up the
stairs and into the house I could still hear him talking with his
friend.
This was certainly not the first time he'd been told of this
sentiment, but after ~17 years of living it was the first time he
had
ever believed it. There are at least 3 other
experiences I would
like
to share in time, but for now I'll leave
it at this.
--
-- rhodey ˙ ͜ʟ˙
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org <mailto:
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org>
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
7:59 p.m.
I am sincerely sorry that I've made you uncomfortable. It was my
intention to share an experience that better helped me understand
motivations for crime, not an experience with other ethnic groups.
Retrospectively I'd rather not have answered the last question because
it wrongly places focus elsewhere.
--
-- rhodey ˙ ͜ʟ˙
On 11/18/2013 07:50 PM, David Barthwell wrote:
To all the people sharing fun stories and uplifting
anecdotes about
encountering black people in Oakland: Let's not forget that there are
actually some on this list. In fact, I'm one of them!
On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 7:36 PM, rhodey <rhodey(a)anhonesteffort.org
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>> wrote:
Oh yes, it is worth noting that I'm a white male in his early 20s.
--
-- rhodey ˙ ͜ʟ˙
On 11/18/2013 07:12 PM, Sonja Trauss wrote:
this reminds me of a comment I overheard on the
bus when I lived in st
louis:
"I'm getting that government money man, fuck street money, it
ain't even
worth it."
ps are you a boy or a girl?
On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 6:55 PM, rhodey <rhodey(a)anhonesteffort.org
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>>> wrote:
Receiving and contemplating the perspectives of others is one
of my
favorite ways to burn metaphorical CPU
cycles. The level of
respect I
show for differing perspectives is something
I hope to never be
content with, that is to say I believe it's an endless process
and
I'm
still working on it. I have a tendency to
keep my head stuck in
projects and have realized is that I've been holding out on
sharing
many of my most valued perspectives, more
specifically my
experiences.
It is my hope that through sharing
experiences we can better
understand how to conduct ourselves within Sudo Room and how
we Sudo
Room can better conduct ourselves within our
local community.
I arrived in the "bay area" May 1st by way of some airport in New
England, in search of hackers, activists and uncomfortable
experiences. After subletting an apartment in the mission for
all of a
month I moved to West Oakland. Since arriving
in Oakland I've been
robbed three times, to me each experience has been indescribably
educational in its own way. However, my first crime related
experience
in Oakland was not a crime at all.
There is a corner store within ~6 minutes walking distance from my
apartment by West Oakland BART called Happy Times. To me it is
usually
a liquor store, but this day I felt like
working through the
night so
I bought 2 large redbull energy drinks.
Walking home holding the
redbull as best I could in one hand I passed two African-American
youths, one female, one male and both no older than 17. We
passed each
other and at this time I was about 20"
from home then from
behind me I
heard "hey man, can I get a
redbull?".
I turned around to face the two of them with a bit of a guilty
smile
on my face, after all who the fuck really
needs 32oz of redbull?
Caffeine, other energy drinks, productivity and I all get along
swimmingly, all the better if I can help someone else get
things done.
"Sure" I said, followed by
"make good use of it" in an attempt
to make
the situation more casual. I walked up and
handed him the
redbull, his
face lit up, he went nuts.
**and I quote** "Oh man! Asking is so much better than stealing!"
The smile stayed on his face as he continued celebrating,
exclaiming
all possible iterations of the above
statement as I stood their
dumbfounded. This continued for minutes until we parted ways,
up the
stairs and into the house I could still hear
him talking with his
friend.
This was certainly not the first time he'd been told of this
sentiment, but after ~17 years of living it was the first time
he had
ever believed it. There are at least 3 other
experiences I
would like
to share in time, but for now I'll leave
it at this.
--
-- rhodey ˙ ͜ʟ˙
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>>
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org <mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>
http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
8:17 p.m.
New subject: my experiences with "crime" in oakland [part 1 of ?]
no way man! your age/ race / gender is super relevant I think for how at
risk you are for being hassled, and in what way.
I think gender is the most important. Super crazy people and females will
rob ladies, but crazy people, females AND healthy, red-blooded American
bullies will rob boys. I would bet $70 that the three times you were
robbed, if I had walked by that corner instead of you, your robbers would
have said "hey girl, can I go w chu"? to me and I would not have been
robbed.
I also think it gets less fun to rob men as they get older.
David - you're black, do you have any info on the relative safety from
mugging of black women and men?
I would expect the same dynamic to play out - it's not that fun to rob
women, it's not as cool of a story. What about the relative safety of black
and white men? I think white men and women imagine they would be safer in a
black neighbourhood if they were black, but I don't believe that. I'm
pretty sure the main victims of black criminals are other black people.
On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 7:59 PM, rhodey <rhodey(a)anhonesteffort.org> wrote:
I am sincerely sorry that I've made you
uncomfortable. It was my
intention to share an experience that better helped me understand
motivations for crime, not an experience with other ethnic groups.
Retrospectively I'd rather not have answered the last question because
it wrongly places focus elsewhere.
--
-- rhodey ˙ ͜ʟ˙
On 11/18/2013 07:50 PM, David Barthwell wrote:
New
been
from my
the
redbull?
stealing!"
his
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org>
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
To all the people sharing fun stories and
uplifting anecdotes about
encountering black people in Oakland: Let's not forget that there are
actually some on this list. In fact, I'm one of them!
On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 7:36 PM, rhodey <rhodey(a)anhonesteffort.org
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>> wrote:
Oh yes, it is worth noting that I'm a white male in his early 20s.
--
-- rhodey ˙ ͜ʟ˙
On 11/18/2013 07:12 PM, Sonja Trauss wrote:
> this reminds me of a comment I overheard on the bus when I lived
in st
louis:
"I'm getting that government money man, fuck street money, it
ain't even
worth it."
ps are you a boy or a girl?
On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 6:55 PM, rhodey <rhodey(a)anhonesteffort.org
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>>> wrote:
Receiving and contemplating the perspectives of others is one
of my
favorite ways to burn metaphorical CPU
cycles. The level of
respect I
show for differing perspectives is something
I hope to never be
content with, that is to say I believe it's an endless process
and
I'm
still working on it. I have a tendency to
keep my head stuck in
projects and have realized is that I've been holding out on
sharing
many of my most valued perspectives, more
specifically my
experiences.
It is my hope that through sharing
experiences we can better
understand how to conduct ourselves within Sudo Room and how
we Sudo
> Room can better conduct ourselves within our local community.
>
> I arrived in the "bay area" May 1st by way of some airport in
England, in search of hackers, activists and uncomfortable
experiences. After subletting an apartment in the mission for
all of a
> month I moved to West Oakland. Since arriving in Oakland I've > robbed three times, to me each
experience has been
indescribably
educational in its own way. However, my first crime related
experience
> in Oakland was not a crime at all.
>
> There is a corner store within ~6 minutes walking distance
apartment by West Oakland BART called Happy Times. To me it is
usually
a liquor store, but this day I felt like
working through the
night so
> I bought 2 large redbull energy drinks. Walking home holding > redbull as best I could in one hand
I passed two
African-American
youths, one female, one male and both no older than 17. We
passed each
other and at this time I was about 20"
from home then from
behind me I
heard "hey man, can I get a
redbull?".
I turned around to face the two of them with a bit of a guilty
smile
> on my face, after all who the fuck really needs 32oz of
Caffeine, other energy drinks, productivity and I all get along
swimmingly, all the better if I can help someone else get
things done.
"Sure" I said, followed by
"make good use of it" in an attempt
to make
the situation more casual. I walked up and
handed him the
redbull, his
> face lit up, he went nuts.
>
> **and I quote** "Oh man! Asking is so much better than
The smile stayed on his face as he continued celebrating,
exclaiming
all possible iterations of the above
statement as I stood their
dumbfounded. This continued for minutes until we parted ways,
up the
> stairs and into the house I could still hear him talking with
friend.
This was certainly not the first time he'd been told of this
sentiment, but after ~17 years of living it was the first time
he had
ever believed it. There are at least 3 other
experiences I
would like
to share in time, but for now I'll leave
it at this.
--
-- rhodey ˙ ͜ʟ˙
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>>
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org <mailto:
8:30 p.m.
There is a class of discussions I feel comfortable having on a public
mailing list and a class of discussions I feel more comfortable having
in person. While I agree that race and age are relevant factors in being
the target of crime, the target discussion is not a discussion I'm
interested in having or intended to spur.
What I'm more interested in exploring is the preventative measures that
can be taken to decrease crime at the society level and how Sudo Room
can lend a hand.
--
-- rhodey ˙ ͜ʟ˙
On 11/18/2013 08:17 PM, Sonja Trauss wrote:
no way man! your age/ race / gender is super relevant
I think for how at
risk you are for being hassled, and in what way.
I think gender is the most important. Super crazy people and females
will rob ladies, but crazy people, females AND healthy, red-blooded
American bullies will rob boys. I would bet $70 that the three times you
were robbed, if I had walked by that corner instead of you, your robbers
would have said "hey girl, can I go w chu"? to me and I would not have
been robbed.
I also think it gets less fun to rob men as they get older.
David - you're black, do you have any info on the relative safety from
mugging of black women and men?
I would expect the same dynamic to play out - it's not that fun to rob
women, it's not as cool of a story. What about the relative safety of
black and white men? I think white men and women imagine they would be
safer in a black neighbourhood if they were black, but I don't believe
that. I'm pretty sure the main victims of black criminals are other
black people.
On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 7:59 PM, rhodey <rhodey(a)anhonesteffort.org
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>> wrote:
I am sincerely sorry that I've made you uncomfortable. It was my
intention to share an experience that better helped me understand
motivations for crime, not an experience with other ethnic groups.
Retrospectively I'd rather not have answered the last question because
it wrongly places focus elsewhere.
--
-- rhodey ˙ ͜ʟ˙
On 11/18/2013 07:50 PM, David Barthwell wrote:
<rhodey(a)anhonesteffort.org
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>
community.
distance from
my
guilty
attempt
stood their
To all the people sharing fun stories and
uplifting anecdotes about
encountering black people in Oakland: Let's not forget that there are
actually some on this list. In fact, I'm one of them!
On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 7:36 PM, rhodey <rhodey(a)anhonesteffort.org
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>>> wrote:
Oh yes, it is worth noting that I'm a white male in his early 20s.
--
-- rhodey ˙ ͜ʟ˙
On 11/18/2013 07:12 PM, Sonja Trauss wrote:
> this reminds me of a comment I overheard on the bus when I
lived in
st
louis:
"I'm getting that government money man, fuck street money, it
ain't even
> worth it."
>
> ps are you a boy or a girl?
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 6:55 PM, rhodey <mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>>
> <mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>>>> wrote:
>
> Receiving and contemplating the perspectives of others
is one
of my
never be
favorite ways to burn metaphorical CPU
cycles. The level of
respect I
> show for differing perspectives is something I hope to > content with, that is to say I
believe it's an endless
process
and I'm
> still working on it. I have a tendency to keep my head
stuck in
projects and have realized is that I've been holding out on
sharing
many of my most valued perspectives, more
specifically my
experiences.
It is my hope that through sharing
experiences we can better
understand how to conduct ourselves within Sudo Room and how
we Sudo
> Room can better conduct ourselves within our local >
> I arrived in the "bay area" May 1st by way of some
airport in New
> England, in search of hackers,
activists and uncomfortable
> experiences. After subletting an apartment in the
mission for
all of a
> month I moved to West Oakland. Since arriving in Oakland
I've
been
> robbed three times, to me each
experience has been
indescribably
educational in its own way. However, my first crime related
experience
> in Oakland was not a crime at all.
>
> There is a corner store within ~6 minutes walking > apartment by West Oakland BART
called Happy Times. To me
it is
usually
holding the
a liquor store, but this day I felt like
working through the
night so
> I bought 2 large redbull energy drinks. Walking home > redbull as best I could in one hand
I passed two
African-American
youths, one female, one male and both no older than 17. We
passed each
other and at this time I was about 20"
from home then from
behind me I
> heard "hey man, can I get a redbull?".
>
> I turned around to face the two of them with a bit of a smile
> on my face, after all who the fuck really needs 32oz of
redbull?
> Caffeine, other energy drinks,
productivity and I all
get along
swimmingly, all the better if I can help someone else get
things done.
> "Sure" I said, followed by "make good use of it" in an
to make
stealing!"
the situation more casual. I walked up and
handed him the
redbull, his
> face lit up, he went nuts.
>
> **and I quote** "Oh man! Asking is so much better than
The smile stayed on his face as he continued celebrating,
exclaiming
> all possible iterations of the above statement as I > dumbfounded. This continued for
minutes until we parted
ways,
up the
> stairs and into the house I could still hear him talking
with
his
> friend.
>
> This was certainly not the first time he'd been told of this
> sentiment, but after ~17 years of living it was the
first time
he had
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>
ever believed it. There are at least 3 other
experiences I
would like
> to share in time, but for now I'll leave it at this.
>
> --
> -- rhodey ˙ ͜ʟ˙
> _______________________________________________
> sudo-discuss mailing list
> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org <mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>>
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>>>
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>>
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org <mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>
http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
8:35 p.m.
New subject: my experiences with "crime" in oakland [part 1 of ?]
oh.
Guaranteed basic income, that does NOT increase if you have children. You
receive it starting at, say, 22. No earlier.
There are org.s that are working on advocating for it. I guess I should
start volunteering more.
On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 8:30 PM, rhodey <rhodey(a)anhonesteffort.org> wrote:
There is a class of discussions I feel comfortable
having on a public
mailing list and a class of discussions I feel more comfortable having
in person. While I agree that race and age are relevant factors in being
the target of crime, the target discussion is not a discussion I'm
interested in having or intended to spur.
What I'm more interested in exploring is the preventative measures that
can be taken to decrease crime at the society level and how Sudo Room
can lend a hand.
--
-- rhodey ˙ ͜ʟ˙
On 11/18/2013 08:17 PM, Sonja Trauss wrote:
20s.
<rhodey(a)anhonesteffort.org
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>
of
on
uncomfortable
related
the
We
attempt
stood their
this
I
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org>
no way man! your age/ race / gender is super
relevant I think for how at
risk you are for being hassled, and in what way.
I think gender is the most important. Super crazy people and females
will rob ladies, but crazy people, females AND healthy, red-blooded
American bullies will rob boys. I would bet $70 that the three times you
were robbed, if I had walked by that corner instead of you, your robbers
would have said "hey girl, can I go w chu"? to me and I would not have
been robbed.
I also think it gets less fun to rob men as they get older.
David - you're black, do you have any info on the relative safety from
mugging of black women and men?
I would expect the same dynamic to play out - it's not that fun to rob
women, it's not as cool of a story. What about the relative safety of
black and white men? I think white men and women imagine they would be
safer in a black neighbourhood if they were black, but I don't believe
that. I'm pretty sure the main victims of black criminals are other
black people.
On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 7:59 PM, rhodey <rhodey(a)anhonesteffort.org
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>> wrote:
I am sincerely sorry that I've made you uncomfortable. It was my
intention to share an experience that better helped me understand
motivations for crime, not an experience with other ethnic groups.
Retrospectively I'd rather not have answered the last question
because
it wrongly places focus elsewhere.
--
-- rhodey ˙ ͜ʟ˙
On 11/18/2013 07:50 PM, David Barthwell wrote:
> To all the people sharing fun stories and uplifting anecdotes about
> encountering black people in Oakland: Let's not forget that there
are
actually
some on this list. In fact, I'm one of them!
On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 7:36 PM, rhodey <rhodey(a)anhonesteffort.org
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>>> wrote:
>
> Oh yes, it is worth noting that I'm a white male in his early
--
-- rhodey ˙ ͜ʟ˙
On 11/18/2013 07:12 PM, Sonja Trauss wrote:
> this reminds me of a comment I overheard on the bus when I
lived in
st
louis:
"I'm getting that government money man, fuck street money, it
ain't even
> worth it."
>
> ps are you a boy or a girl?
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 6:55 PM, rhodey <mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>>
> <mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>>>> wrote:
>
> Receiving and contemplating the perspectives of others
is one
> of my
> > favorite ways to burn metaphorical CPU cycles. The level
respect I
> show for differing perspectives is something I hope to
never be
> content with, that is to say I
believe it's an endless
process
and I'm
> still working on it. I have a tendency to keep my head
stuck in
> > projects and have realized is that I've been holding out > sharing
> > many of my most valued perspectives, more specifically my
> experiences.
> > It is my hope that through sharing experiences we can
better
> > understand how to conduct
ourselves within Sudo Room and
how
we
Sudo
> Room can better conduct ourselves within our local
community.
>
> I arrived in the "bay area" May 1st by way of some
airport in New
> > England, in search of hackers, activists and >
experiences. After subletting an apartment in the
mission for
all of a
> month I moved to West Oakland. Since arriving in Oakland
I've
been
> robbed three times, to me each
experience has been
indescribably
> > educational in its own way. However, my first crime
experience
> in Oakland was not a crime at all.
>
> There is a corner store within ~6 minutes walking
distance from
my
> apartment by West Oakland BART
called Happy Times. To me
it is
> usually
> > a liquor store, but this day I felt like working through night
so
> I bought 2 large redbull energy drinks. Walking home
holding the
> redbull as best I could in one hand
I passed two
African-American
> > youths, one female, one male and both no older than 17. > passed each
> > other and at this time I was about 20" from home then
from
behind me I
> heard "hey man, can I get a redbull?".
>
> I turned around to face the two of them with a bit of a
guilty
smile
> on my face, after all who the fuck really needs 32oz of
redbull?
> Caffeine, other energy drinks,
productivity and I all
get along
swimmingly, all the better if I can help someone else get
things done.
> "Sure" I said, followed by "make good use of it" in an
to make
stealing!"
the situation more casual. I walked up and
handed him the
redbull, his
> face lit up, he went nuts.
>
> **and I quote** "Oh man! Asking is so much better than
The smile stayed on his face as he continued celebrating,
exclaiming
> all possible iterations of the above statement as I > dumbfounded. This continued for
minutes until we parted
ways,
up the
> stairs and into the house I could still hear him talking
with
his
> > friend.
> >
> > This was certainly not the first time he'd been told of >
sentiment, but after ~17 years of living it was the
first time
> he had
> > ever believed it. There are at least 3 other experiences would
like
> to share in time, but for now I'll leave it at this.
>
> --
> -- rhodey ˙ ͜ʟ˙
> _______________________________________________
> sudo-discuss mailing list
> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>>
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>>>
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>>
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org <mailto: 
9:54 p.m.
To cut right to the chase here:
What does it take to run a gang? The same skills it takes to run a
small business. Buying "product" wholesale and selling it retail,
keeping track of inventory, hiring and firing, bookkeeping, management,
marketing, and dealing with the "competition."
I'd bet the price of a house, that easily half of the gang-bangers in
Oakland are kids with serious entrepreneurial smarts who are locked out
and shut out of legitimate business activity by way of:
Racism: the obvious one.
Classism: never underestimate this one.
Illiteracy: call it by name, and fix the schools.
So: what does someone do with a serious talent if they're denied every
opportunity to use it legitimately? They use it wherever they can.
"Product" is "product." Sales are sales. Externalities are
externalities, plus or minus washing the blood off the street.
How many Oaktown homies [sorry if that phrase bugs anyone, I got it from
someone who used it to refer to themselves and their friends] have ever
gotten within a mile of Sand Hill Road in Menlo Park? (home of a bunch
of well-known VC firms)
What do you think the VCers would say if a half dozen Oaktown homies
showed up in their waiting room one morning?
Maybe it's time to find out.
Challenge #1: Raise a million bucks for a local microenterprise
development fund. Set up a microenterprise incubator. Find and fund
kids who no VCer would touch. Go into the schools and make it known.
Sign up at-risk kids early, before they switch off inside and opt into
crime-world. That means starting in middle-school, possibly elementary
school. Tutor them if needed to get their literacy skills up to par.
Hook them up with small business mentors and encourage them to teach
others in turn.
Challenge #2: Start a local currency that works like Ithaca Hours
(labor-based valuation). One of the strongest correlates of poverty
(hence crime) is the absence of turnover of dollars in a local economy.
In Marin County a dollar changes hands on average 33 times before it
exits the county. In East Oakland, a dollar changes hands on average
TWICE before it exits the community. Forget the "pirate" bullshit: the
purpose of local currency isn't to duck The Man, it's to strengthen the
local economy by encouraging circulation of money locally. Do what works.
Next installment:
How to set up a microenterprise lending system and start a bank.
Yeah I'm as serious as a heart attack about this.
-G.
=====
On 13-11-18-Mon 8:35 PM, Sonja Trauss wrote:
oh.
Guaranteed basic income, that does NOT increase if you have children.
You receive it starting at, say, 22. No earlier.
There are org.s that are working on advocating for it. I guess I
should start volunteering more.
On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 8:30 PM, rhodey <rhodey(a)anhonesteffort.org
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>> wrote:
There is a class of discussions I feel comfortable having on a public
mailing list and a class of discussions I feel more comfortable having
in person. While I agree that race and age are relevant factors in
being
the target of crime, the target discussion is not a discussion I'm
interested in having or intended to spur.
What I'm more interested in exploring is the preventative measures
that
can be taken to decrease crime at the society level and how Sudo Room
can lend a hand.
--
-- rhodey ? ???
On 11/18/2013 08:17 PM, Sonja Trauss wrote:
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org <mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>>
>
uncomfortable
Oakland
Times. To
me
than 17.
We
parted
experiences
I
no way man! your age/ race / gender is super
relevant I think
for how at
risk you are for being hassled, and in what way.
I think gender is the most important. Super crazy people and females
will rob ladies, but crazy people, females AND healthy, red-blooded
American bullies will rob boys. I would bet $70 that the three
times you
were robbed, if I had walked by that corner
instead of you, your
robbers
would have said "hey girl, can I go w
chu"? to me and I would
not have
been robbed.
I also think it gets less fun to rob men as they get older.
David - you're black, do you have any info on the relative
safety from
mugging of black women and men?
I would expect the same dynamic to play out - it's not that fun
to rob
women, it's not as cool of a story. What
about the relative
safety of
black and white men? I think white men and women
imagine they
would be
safer in a black neighbourhood if they were
black, but I don't
believe
that. I'm pretty sure the main victims of
black criminals are other
black people.
On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 7:59 PM, rhodey
<rhodey(a)anhonesteffort.org
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>>> wrote:
I am sincerely sorry that I've made you uncomfortable. It was my
intention to share an experience that better helped me
understand
motivations for crime, not an experience with
other ethnic
groups.
Retrospectively I'd rather not have answered the last
question
because
it wrongly places focus elsewhere.
--
-- rhodey ? ???
On 11/18/2013 07:50 PM, David Barthwell wrote:
> To all the people sharing fun stories and uplifting
anecdotes about
> encountering black people in Oakland:
Let's not forget
that there are
> actually some on this list. In fact,
I'm one of them!
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 7:36 PM, rhodey
<rhodey(a)anhonesteffort.org
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>>
> <mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>>>> wrote:
>
> Oh yes, it is worth noting that I'm a white male in
his early
20s.
>
> --
> -- rhodey ? ???
>
> On 11/18/2013 07:12 PM, Sonja Trauss wrote:
> > this reminds me of a comment I overheard on the bus
when I
lived in st
> > louis:
> > "I'm getting that government money man, fuck street
money, it
ain't even
> worth it."
>
> ps are you a boy or a girl?
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 6:55 PM, rhodey
<rhodey(a)anhonesteffort.org
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>>>
> >
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>>
> <mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>>>>> wrote:
> >
> > Receiving and contemplating the perspectives of
others
is one
> of my
> > favorite ways to burn metaphorical CPU cycles.
The level
of
> respect I
> > show for differing perspectives is something I
hope to
never be
> > content with, that is to say I believe it's an
endless
process
> and I'm
> > still working on it. I have a tendency to keep
my head
stuck in
> > projects and have realized is that I've been
holding
out on
> sharing
> > many of my most valued perspectives, more
specifically
my
> experiences.
> > It is my hope that through sharing experiences
we can
better
> > understand how to conduct
ourselves within Sudo
Room and how
we
Sudo
> Room can better conduct ourselves within our local
community.
>
> I arrived in the "bay area" May 1st by way of some
airport in New
> > England, in search of hackers, activists and >
experiences. After subletting an apartment in the
mission for
> all of a
> > month I moved to West Oakland. Since arriving in I've been
crime
related
> robbed three times, to me each
experience has been
indescribably
> > educational in its own way. However, my first
experience
> in Oakland was not a crime at all.
>
> There is a corner store within ~6 minutes walking
distance from
my
> > apartment by West Oakland BART called Happy it is
> usually
> > a liquor store, but this day I felt like working
through
the
night
so
> I bought 2 large redbull energy drinks. Walking home
holding the
> redbull as best I could in one hand
I passed two
African-American
> > youths, one female, one male and both no older > passed each
> > other and at this time I was about 20" from home
then from
> behind me I
> > heard "hey man, can I get a redbull?".
> >
> > I turned around to face the two of them with a
bit of a
guilty
> smile
> > on my face, after all who the fuck really needs
32oz of
redbull?
> > Caffeine, other energy drinks, productivity and
I all
get along
> > swimmingly, all the better if I can help someone
else
get
> things done.
> > "Sure" I said, followed by "make good use of
it"
in an
attempt
> to make
> > the situation more casual. I walked up and
handed him
the
> redbull, his
> > face lit up, he went nuts.
> >
> > **and I quote** "Oh man! Asking is so much
better
than
stealing!"
> >
> > The smile stayed on his face as he continued
celebrating,
exclaiming
> all possible iterations of the above statement as I
stood their
> > dumbfounded. This continued for minutes until we ways,
> up the
> > stairs and into the house I could still hear him
talking
with his
> > friend.
> >
> > This was certainly not the first time he'd been
told
of this
>
sentiment, but after ~17 years of living it was the
first time
> he had
> > ever believed it. There are at least 3 other > would like
> > to share in time, but for now I'll leave it at this.
> >
> > --
> > -- rhodey ? ???
> > _______________________________________________
> > sudo-discuss mailing list
> > sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>>
>
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>>>
>
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>>
>
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>>>>
> >
http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> sudo-discuss mailing list
> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>>
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>>>
_______________________________________________
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sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>>
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
10:54 p.m.
How many Oaktown homies [sorry if that phrase bugs
anyone, I got it
from someone who used it to refer to themselves and their friends]
have ever gotten within a mile of Sand Hill Road in Menlo Park? (home
of a bunch of well-known VC firms)
If you have to excuse your choice of vocabulary it is probably best to
chose again. Now please excuse me while I crawl back into my digital
world of definite, actionable semantics.
--
-- rhodey ˙ ͜ʟ˙
On 11/18/2013 09:54 PM, GtwoG PublicOhOne wrote:
To cut right to the chase here:
What does it take to run a gang? The same skills it takes to run a
small business. Buying "product" wholesale and selling it retail,
keeping track of inventory, hiring and firing, bookkeeping, management,
marketing, and dealing with the "competition."
I'd bet the price of a house, that easily half of the gang-bangers in
Oakland are kids with serious entrepreneurial smarts who are locked out
and shut out of legitimate business activity by way of:
Racism: the obvious one.
Classism: never underestimate this one.
Illiteracy: call it by name, and fix the schools.
So: what does someone do with a serious talent if they're denied every
opportunity to use it legitimately? They use it wherever they can.
"Product" is "product." Sales are sales. Externalities are
externalities, plus or minus washing the blood off the street.
How many Oaktown homies [sorry if that phrase bugs anyone, I got it from
someone who used it to refer to themselves and their friends] have ever
gotten within a mile of Sand Hill Road in Menlo Park? (home of a bunch
of well-known VC firms)
What do you think the VCers would say if a half dozen Oaktown homies
showed up in their waiting room one morning?
Maybe it's time to find out.
Challenge #1: Raise a million bucks for a local microenterprise
development fund. Set up a microenterprise incubator. Find and fund
kids who no VCer would touch. Go into the schools and make it known.
Sign up at-risk kids early, before they switch off inside and opt into
crime-world. That means starting in middle-school, possibly elementary
school. Tutor them if needed to get their literacy skills up to par.
Hook them up with small business mentors and encourage them to teach
others in turn.
Challenge #2: Start a local currency that works like Ithaca Hours
(labor-based valuation). One of the strongest correlates of poverty
(hence crime) is the absence of turnover of dollars in a local economy.
In Marin County a dollar changes hands on average 33 times before it
exits the county. In East Oakland, a dollar changes hands on average
TWICE before it exits the community. Forget the "pirate" bullshit: the
purpose of local currency isn't to duck The Man, it's to strengthen the
local economy by encouraging circulation of money locally. Do what works.
Next installment:
How to set up a microenterprise lending system and start a bank.
Yeah I'm as serious as a heart attack about this.
-G.
=====
On 13-11-18-Mon 8:35 PM, Sonja Trauss wrote:
oh.
Guaranteed basic income, that does NOT increase if you have children.
You receive it starting at, say, 22. No earlier.
There are org.s that are working on advocating for it. I guess I
should start volunteering more.
On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 8:30 PM, rhodey <rhodey(a)anhonesteffort.org
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>> wrote:
There is a class of discussions I feel comfortable having on a public
mailing list and a class of discussions I feel more comfortable having
in person. While I agree that race and age are relevant factors in
being
the target of crime, the target discussion is not a discussion I'm
interested in having or intended to spur.
What I'm more interested in exploring is the preventative measures
that
can be taken to decrease crime at the society level and how Sudo Room
can lend a hand.
--
-- rhodey ˙ ͜ʟ˙
On 11/18/2013 08:17 PM, Sonja Trauss wrote:
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org <mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>>
>
uncomfortable
Oakland
Times. To
me
than 17.
We
parted
experiences
I
no way man! your age/ race / gender is super
relevant I think
for how at
risk you are for being hassled, and in what way.
I think gender is the most important. Super crazy people and females
will rob ladies, but crazy people, females AND healthy, red-blooded
American bullies will rob boys. I would bet $70 that the three
times you
were robbed, if I had walked by that corner
instead of you, your
robbers
would have said "hey girl, can I go w
chu"? to me and I would
not have
been robbed.
I also think it gets less fun to rob men as they get older.
David - you're black, do you have any info on the relative
safety from
mugging of black women and men?
I would expect the same dynamic to play out - it's not that fun
to rob
women, it's not as cool of a story. What
about the relative
safety of
black and white men? I think white men and women
imagine they
would be
safer in a black neighbourhood if they were
black, but I don't
believe
that. I'm pretty sure the main victims of
black criminals are other
black people.
On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 7:59 PM, rhodey
<rhodey(a)anhonesteffort.org
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>>> wrote:
I am sincerely sorry that I've made you uncomfortable. It was my
intention to share an experience that better helped me
understand
motivations for crime, not an experience with
other ethnic
groups.
Retrospectively I'd rather not have answered the last
question
because
it wrongly places focus elsewhere.
--
-- rhodey ˙ ͜ʟ˙
On 11/18/2013 07:50 PM, David Barthwell wrote:
> To all the people sharing fun stories and uplifting
anecdotes about
> encountering black people in Oakland:
Let's not forget
that there are
> actually some on this list. In fact,
I'm one of them!
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 7:36 PM, rhodey
<rhodey(a)anhonesteffort.org
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>>
> <mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>>>> wrote:
>
> Oh yes, it is worth noting that I'm a white male in
his early
20s.
>
> --
> -- rhodey ˙ ͜ʟ˙
>
> On 11/18/2013 07:12 PM, Sonja Trauss wrote:
> > this reminds me of a comment I overheard on the bus
when I
lived in st
> > louis:
> > "I'm getting that government money man, fuck street
money, it
ain't even
> worth it."
>
> ps are you a boy or a girl?
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 6:55 PM, rhodey
<rhodey(a)anhonesteffort.org
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>>>
> >
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>>
> <mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>>>>> wrote:
> >
> > Receiving and contemplating the perspectives of
others
is one
> of my
> > favorite ways to burn metaphorical CPU cycles.
The level
of
> respect I
> > show for differing perspectives is something I
hope to
never be
> > content with, that is to say I believe it's an
endless
process
> and I'm
> > still working on it. I have a tendency to keep
my head
stuck in
> > projects and have realized is that I've been
holding
out on
> sharing
> > many of my most valued perspectives, more
specifically
my
> experiences.
> > It is my hope that through sharing experiences
we can
better
> > understand how to conduct
ourselves within Sudo
Room and how
we
Sudo
> Room can better conduct ourselves within our local
community.
>
> I arrived in the "bay area" May 1st by way of some
airport in New
> > England, in search of hackers, activists and >
experiences. After subletting an apartment in the
mission for
> all of a
> > month I moved to West Oakland. Since arriving in I've been
crime
related
> robbed three times, to me each
experience has been
indescribably
> > educational in its own way. However, my first
experience
> in Oakland was not a crime at all.
>
> There is a corner store within ~6 minutes walking
distance from
my
> > apartment by West Oakland BART called Happy it is
> usually
> > a liquor store, but this day I felt like working
through
the
night
so
> I bought 2 large redbull energy drinks. Walking home
holding the
> redbull as best I could in one hand
I passed two
African-American
> > youths, one female, one male and both no older > passed each
> > other and at this time I was about 20" from home
then from
> behind me I
> > heard "hey man, can I get a redbull?".
> >
> > I turned around to face the two of them with a
bit of a
guilty
> smile
> > on my face, after all who the fuck really needs
32oz of
redbull?
> > Caffeine, other energy drinks, productivity and
I all
get along
> > swimmingly, all the better if I can help someone
else
get
> things done.
> > "Sure" I said, followed by "make good use of
it"
in an
attempt
> to make
> > the situation more casual. I walked up and
handed him
the
> redbull, his
> > face lit up, he went nuts.
> >
> > **and I quote** "Oh man! Asking is so much
better
than
stealing!"
> >
> > The smile stayed on his face as he continued
celebrating,
exclaiming
> all possible iterations of the above statement as I
stood their
> > dumbfounded. This continued for minutes until we ways,
> up the
> > stairs and into the house I could still hear him
talking
with his
> > friend.
> >
> > This was certainly not the first time he'd been
told
of this
>
sentiment, but after ~17 years of living it was the
first time
> he had
> > ever believed it. There are at least 3 other > would like
> > to share in time, but for now I'll leave it at this.
> >
> > --
> > -- rhodey ˙ ͜ʟ˙
> > _______________________________________________
> > sudo-discuss mailing list
> > sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>>
>
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>>>
>
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>>
>
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>>>>
> >
http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> sudo-discuss mailing list
> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>>
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>>>
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>>
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss 
10:12 p.m.
New subject: my experiences with "crime" in oakland [part 1 of ?]
wait, huh? what does having kids or being under 22 have to do with crime?
on the surface that sounds really fucked up.
-amber
On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 8:35 PM, Sonja Trauss <sonja.trauss(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:
oh.
Guaranteed basic income, that does NOT increase if you have children. You
receive it starting at, say, 22. No earlier.
There are org.s that are working on advocating for it. I guess I should
start volunteering more.
On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 8:30 PM, rhodey <rhodey(a)anhonesteffort.org> wrote:
--
*Animator Mama You-Tube Channel
<http://www.youtube.com/user/videocabulary/videos?view=0>*
*Animator Mama on Tumblr <http://animatormama.tumblr.com/>*
There is a class of discussions I feel
comfortable having on a public
mailing list and a class of discussions I feel more comfortable having
in person. While I agree that race and age are relevant factors in being
the target of crime, the target discussion is not a discussion I'm
interested in having or intended to spur.
What I'm more interested in exploring is the preventative measures that
can be taken to decrease crime at the society level and how Sudo Room
can lend a hand.
--
-- rhodey ˙ ͜ʟ˙
On 11/18/2013 08:17 PM, Sonja Trauss wrote:
it
level of
out
on
uncomfortable
related
through
the
We
get
the
celebrating,
this
experiences I
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org>
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
no way man! your age/ race / gender is super
relevant I think for how at
risk you are for being hassled, and in what way.
I think gender is the most important. Super crazy people and females
will rob ladies, but crazy people, females AND healthy, red-blooded
American bullies will rob boys. I would bet $70 that the three times you
were robbed, if I had walked by that corner instead of you, your robbers
would have said "hey girl, can I go w chu"? to me and I would not have
been robbed.
I also think it gets less fun to rob men as they get older.
David - you're black, do you have any info on the relative safety from
mugging of black women and men?
I would expect the same dynamic to play out - it's not that fun to rob
women, it's not as cool of a story. What about the relative safety of
black and white men? I think white men and women imagine they would be
safer in a black neighbourhood if they were black, but I don't believe
that. I'm pretty sure the main victims of black criminals are other
black people.
On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 7:59 PM, rhodey <rhodey(a)anhonesteffort.org
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>> wrote:
I am sincerely sorry that I've made you uncomfortable. It was my
intention to share an experience that better helped me understand
motivations for crime, not an experience with other ethnic groups.
Retrospectively I'd rather not have answered the last question
because
it wrongly places focus elsewhere.
--
-- rhodey ˙ ͜ʟ˙
On 11/18/2013 07:50 PM, David Barthwell wrote:
> To all the people sharing fun stories and uplifting anecdotes
about
> encountering black people in Oakland:
Let's not forget that
there are
> actually some on this list. In fact,
I'm one of them!
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 7:36 PM, rhodey <
rhodey(a)anhonesteffort.org
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>
20s.
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>>> wrote:
>
> Oh yes, it is worth noting that I'm a white male in his early
--
-- rhodey ˙ ͜ʟ˙
On 11/18/2013 07:12 PM, Sonja Trauss wrote:
> this reminds me of a comment I overheard on the bus when I
lived in
st
> > louis:
> > "I'm getting that government money man, fuck street money,
ain't even
> worth it."
>
> ps are you a boy or a girl?
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 6:55 PM, rhodey
<rhodey(a)anhonesteffort.org
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>>
> <mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>>>> wrote:
>
> Receiving and contemplating the perspectives of others
is one
> of my
> > favorite ways to burn metaphorical CPU cycles. The
respect I
> show for differing perspectives is something I hope to
never be
> content with, that is to say I
believe it's an endless
process
and I'm
> still working on it. I have a tendency to keep my head
stuck in
> > projects and have realized is that I've been holding > sharing
> > many of my most valued perspectives, more specifically
my
> experiences.
> > It is my hope that through sharing experiences we can
better
> > understand how to conduct
ourselves within Sudo Room
and how
we
Sudo
> Room can better conduct ourselves within our local
community.
>
> I arrived in the "bay area" May 1st by way of some
airport in New
> > England, in search of hackers, activists and >
experiences. After subletting an apartment in the
mission for
all of a
> month I moved to West Oakland. Since arriving in Oakland
I've
been
> robbed three times, to me each
experience has been
indescribably
> > educational in its own way. However, my first crime
experience
> in Oakland was not a crime at all.
>
> There is a corner store within ~6 minutes walking
distance from
my
> apartment by West Oakland BART
called Happy Times. To me
it is
> usually
> > a liquor store, but this day I felt like working night
so
> I bought 2 large redbull energy drinks. Walking home
holding the
> redbull as best I could in one hand
I passed two
African-American
> > youths, one female, one male and both no older than 17. > passed each
> > other and at this time I was about 20" from home then
from
behind me I
> heard "hey man, can I get a redbull?".
>
> I turned around to face the two of them with a bit of a
guilty
smile
> on my face, after all who the fuck really needs 32oz of
redbull?
> Caffeine, other energy drinks,
productivity and I all
get along
> > swimmingly, all the better if I can help someone else
things done.
> "Sure" I said, followed by "make good use of it" in an
attempt
> to make
> > the situation more casual. I walked up and handed him
redbull, his
> face lit up, he went nuts.
>
> **and I quote** "Oh man! Asking is so much better than
stealing!"
> >
> > The smile stayed on his face as he continued
exclaiming
> all possible iterations of the above statement as I
stood their
> dumbfounded. This continued for
minutes until we parted
ways,
up the
> stairs and into the house I could still hear him talking
with
his
> > friend.
> >
> > This was certainly not the first time he'd been told of >
sentiment, but after ~17 years of living it was the
first time
> he had
> > ever believed it. There are at least 3 other would
like
> to share in time, but for now I'll leave it at this.
>
> --
> -- rhodey ˙ ͜ʟ˙
> _______________________________________________
> sudo-discuss mailing list
> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>>
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>>>
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>>
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org <mailto: 
11:12 p.m.
New subject: my experiences with "crime" in oakland [part 1 of ?]
I like to share fun anecdotes about how I was just hanging out on the
Internet on a public mailing list then met some pretty racist white
people who have done plenty of crimes in their lives, but no one goes
around assuming stuff about them and treating them like they're
criminals. It's super uplifting!
- lizzard
On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 7:50 PM, David Barthwell
<david(a)vergegraphics.com> wrote:
To all the people sharing fun stories and uplifting
anecdotes about
encountering black people in Oakland: Let's not forget that there are
actually some on this list. In fact, I'm one of them!
On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 7:36 PM, rhodey <rhodey(a)anhonesteffort.org> wrote:
--
Liz Henry
lizhenry(a)gmail.com
"Electric ladies will you sleep or will you preach?" -- Janelle Monae
"Without models, it's hard to work; without a context, difficult to
evaluate; without peers, nearly impossible to speak." -- Joanna Russ
Oh yes, it is worth noting that I'm a white male in his early 20s.
--
-- rhodey ˙ ͜ʟ˙
On 11/18/2013 07:12 PM, Sonja Trauss wrote:
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
this reminds me of a comment I overheard on the
bus when I lived in st
louis:
"I'm getting that government money man, fuck street money, it ain't even
worth it."
ps are you a boy or a girl?
On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 6:55 PM, rhodey <rhodey(a)anhonesteffort.org
<mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>> wrote:
Receiving and contemplating the perspectives of others is one of my
favorite ways to burn metaphorical CPU cycles. The level of respect
I
show for differing perspectives is something I hope to never be
content with, that is to say I believe it's an endless process and
I'm
still working on it. I have a tendency to keep my head stuck in
projects and have realized is that I've been holding out on sharing
many of my most valued perspectives, more specifically my
experiences.
It is my hope that through sharing experiences we can better
understand how to conduct ourselves within Sudo Room and how we Sudo
Room can better conduct ourselves within our local community.
I arrived in the "bay area" May 1st by way of some airport in New
England, in search of hackers, activists and uncomfortable
experiences. After subletting an apartment in the mission for all of
a
month I moved to West Oakland. Since arriving in Oakland I've been
robbed three times, to me each experience has been indescribably
educational in its own way. However, my first crime related
experience
in Oakland was not a crime at all.
There is a corner store within ~6 minutes walking distance from my
apartment by West Oakland BART called Happy Times. To me it is
usually
a liquor store, but this day I felt like working through the night
so
I bought 2 large redbull energy drinks. Walking home holding the
redbull as best I could in one hand I passed two African-American
youths, one female, one male and both no older than 17. We passed
each
other and at this time I was about 20" from home then from behind me
I
heard "hey man, can I get a redbull?".
I turned around to face the two of them with a bit of a guilty smile
on my face, after all who the fuck really needs 32oz of redbull?
Caffeine, other energy drinks, productivity and I all get along
swimmingly, all the better if I can help someone else get things
done.
"Sure" I said, followed by "make good use of it" in an attempt
to
make
the situation more casual. I walked up and handed him the redbull,
his
face lit up, he went nuts.
**and I quote** "Oh man! Asking is so much better than stealing!"
The smile stayed on his face as he continued celebrating, exclaiming
all possible iterations of the above statement as I stood their
dumbfounded. This continued for minutes until we parted ways, up the
stairs and into the house I could still hear him talking with his
friend.
This was certainly not the first time he'd been told of this
sentiment, but after ~17 years of living it was the first time he
had
ever believed it. There are at least 3 other experiences I would
like
to share in time, but for now I'll leave it at this.
--
-- rhodey ˙ ͜ʟ˙
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>
http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
11:21 p.m.
New subject: my experiences with "crime" in oakland [part 1 of ?]
What are you talking about ?
On Monday, November 18, 2013, Liz Henry wrote:
I like to share fun anecdotes about how I was just
hanging out on the
Internet on a public mailing list then met some pretty racist white
people who have done plenty of crimes in their lives, but no one goes
around assuming stuff about them and treating them like they're
criminals. It's super uplifting!
- lizzard
On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 7:50 PM, David Barthwell
<david(a)vergegraphics.com <javascript:;>> wrote:
To all the people sharing fun stories and
uplifting anecdotes about
encountering black people in Oakland: Let's not forget that there are
actually some on this list. In fact, I'm one of them!
On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 7:36 PM, rhodey <rhodey(a)anhonesteffort.org>
wrote:
>
> Oh yes, it is worth noting that I'm a white male in his early 20s.
>
> --
> -- rhodey ˙ ͜ʟ˙
>
> On 11/18/2013 07:12 PM, Sonja Trauss wrote:
> > this reminds me of a comment I overheard on the bus when I lived in st
> > louis:
> > "I'm getting that government money man, fuck street money, it ain't
even
> > worth it."
> >
> > ps are you a boy or a girl?
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 6:55 PM, rhodey <rhodey(a)anhonesteffort.org
> > <mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org>> wrote:
> >
> > Receiving and contemplating the perspectives of others is one of
my
> > favorite ways to burn metaphorical
CPU cycles. The level of
respect
> > I
> > show for differing perspectives is something I hope to never be
> > content with, that is to say I believe it's an endless process and
> > I'm
> > still working on it. I have a tendency to keep my head stuck in
> > projects and have realized is that I've been holding out on
sharing
> > many of my most valued perspectives,
more specifically my
> > experiences.
> > It is my hope that through sharing experiences we can better
> > understand how to conduct ourselves within Sudo Room and how we
Sudo
> > Room can better conduct ourselves
within our local community.
> >
> > I arrived in the "bay area" May 1st by way of some airport in New
> > England, in search of hackers, activists and uncomfortable
> > experiences. After subletting an apartment in the mission for all
of
> > a
> > month I moved to West Oakland. Since arriving in Oakland I've been
> > robbed three times, to me each experience has been indescribably
> > educational in its own way. However, my first crime related
> > experience
> > in Oakland was not a crime at all.
> >
> > There is a corner store within ~6 minutes walking distance from my
> > apartment by West Oakland BART called Happy Times. To me it is
> > usually
> > a liquor store, but this day I felt like working through the night
> > so
> > I bought 2 large redbull energy drinks. Walking home holding the
> > redbull as best I could in one hand I passed two African-American
> > youths, one female, one male and both no older than 17. We passed
> > each
> > other and at this time I was about 20" from home then from behind
me
> > I
> > heard "hey man, can I get a redbull?".
> >
> > I turned around to face the two of them with a bit of a guilty
smile
> > on my face, after all who the fuck
really needs 32oz of redbull?
> > Caffeine, other energy drinks, productivity and I all get along
> > swimmingly, all the better if I can help someone else get things
> > done.
> > "Sure" I said, followed by "make good use of it" in an
attempt to
> > make
> > the situation more casual. I walked up and handed him the redbull,
> > his
> > face lit up, he went nuts.
> >
> > **and I quote** "Oh man! Asking is so much better than stealing!"
> >
> > The smile stayed on his face as he continued celebrating,
exclaiming<--
Liz Henry
lizhenry(a)gmail.com <javascript:;>
"Electric ladies will you sleep or will you preach?" -- Janelle Monae
"Without models, it's hard to work; without a context, difficult to
evaluate; without peers, nearly impossible to speak." -- Joanna Russ
_______________________________________________
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19 Nov
19 Nov
10:37 a.m.
I also think it gets less fun to rob men as they get
older.
based on what? robbing young people is fun? this thread...
Nov 18, 2013 11:21:48 PM, sonja.trauss(a)gmail.com wrote:
What are you talking about ?
On Monday, November 18, 2013, Liz Henry wrote:
I like to share fun anecdotes about how I was just hanging out on the
Internet on a public mailing list then met some pretty racist white
11:18 a.m.
New subject: my experiences with "crime" in oakland [part 1 of ?]
Based on what I know about thuggish ruggish degenerate bullies.
Yes. Robbing people is obviously fun. Have you ever known the type of
people that do it? I was bad in HS. The guys I dated were vandals and
bullies. They loved fighting. The people they loved fighting most were boys
their age.
When you get robbed, it's a person robbing you, usually a teenager or young
20s. A PERSON .... A PERSON with flesh and blood, with favorite foods, with
friends, with appetites, maybe a girlfriend, with a favorite song, with
rational thoughts, with irrational thoughts, with emotions, controlled and
uncontrolled. You have known people who have committed crimes probably, you
have committed crimes, probably. It's not a very mysterious person on the
other side. I don't really understand the reluctance to chat about thuggish
teens. It makes them seem more mysterious than they are. Like they are
spirits, they 'must not be named.' Perhaps it's because you are boys? As a
girl I have had the opportunity to visit these kid's houses (in
Philadelphia, but they're all of a type. The computer nerds here are like
the comp sci majors I knew at home. The anarchists are also homogeneous,
nationally. I don't expect the offspring of welfare moms to be so
different. Because they are also in a sense regular people.) I meet their
moms, I listened to their stories and motivations. Their values are as
internally consistant as those of any other subculture I've encountered.
So far this thread has generated a few "oh goodness" responses. Can anyone
articulate, at all, what something like "this thread!" Actually means? My
best guess is that readers are freaking out every time they think they've
read "black" or a synonym for black.
Will it help if I write black a few times? So, dear reader, you can read it
and get used to how freaky it makes you feel?
Black
bllaaaaaaaack
BLACK
Black black black black black black
Black people exist. There are black people. Blaaaaaccckkk pppeeeooopple.
Black people. Think about black people. Acknowledge black people.
Ok, now I'm going to write "mugger."
Did that register as a synonym of black for you? Maybe it did, maybe it
didn't. That's not the part I'm going to judge you on.
Did you notice it registering as a synonym for black? Did that fact upset
you? Ok. That is a fine cascade of internal events. What does that make you
do next? Not rhetorical.
On Tuesday, November 19, 2013, Hol Gaskill wrote:
people who have done plenty of crimes in
their lives, but no one goes
around assuming stuff about them and
treating them like they're
criminals. It's super uplifting!
- lizzard
On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 7:50 PM, David
Barthwell
david(a)vergegraphics.com
<javascript:;>> wrote:
> To all the people sharing fun stories
and uplifting anecdotes about
> encountering black people in Oakland:
Let's not forget that there are
> actually some on this list. In fact,
I'm one of them!
> On Mon, Nov
18, 2013 at 7:36 PM, rhodey rhodey@anhonesteffort.org<javascript:;>>
wrote:
>>
>> Oh yes, it is worth noting that
I'm a white male in his early 20s.
>>
>> --
>> -- rhodey ˙ ͜ʟ˙
>>
>> On 11/18/2013 07:12 PM, Sonja
Trauss wrote:
>> > this reminds me of a comment
I overheard on the bus when I lived in st
>> > louis:
>> > "I'm getting that
government money man, fuck street money, it ain't
even
>> > worth it."
>> >> > ps
are you a boy or a girl?
>> >>
>> > On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 6:55 PM, rhodey
rhodey@anhonesteffort.org<javascript:;>
>> > rhodey(a)anhonesteffort.org
<javascript:;>>> wrote:
>> >> >
Receiving and contemplating the perspectives of others is one of
my
>> > favorite ways to burn
metaphorical CPU cycles. The level of
respect
>> > I
>> > show for differing
perspectives is something I hope to never be
>> > content with, that is to
say I believe it's an endless process and
>> > I'm
>> > still working on it. I
have a tendency to keep my head stuck in
>> > projects and have
realized is that I've been holding out on
sharing
>> > many of my most valued
perspectives, more specifically my
>> > experiences.
>> > It is my hope that
through sharing experiences we can better
>> > understand how to
conduct ourselves within Sudo Room and how we
Sudo
>> > Room can better conduct
ourselves within our local community.
>> >> > I
arrived in the "bay area" May 1st by way of some airport in New
>> > England, in search of
hackers, activists and uncomfortable
>> > experiences. After
subletting an apartment in the mission for all
of
>> > a
>> > month I moved to West
Oakland. Since arriving in Oakland I've been
>> > robbed three times, to
me each experience has been indescribably
>> > educational in its own
way. However, my first crime related
>> > experience
>> > in Oakland was not a
crime at all.
>> >> >
There is a corner store within ~6 minutes walking distance from my
>> > apartment by West
Oakland BART called Happy Times. To me it is
>> > usually
>> > a liquor store, but this
day I felt like working through the night
>> > so
>> > I bought 2 large redbull
energy drinks. Walking home holding the
>> > redbull as best I could
in one hand I passed two African-American
>> > youths, one female, one
male and both no older than 17. We passed
>> > each
>> > other and at this time I
was about 20" from home then from behind
me
>> > I
>> > heard "hey man, can
I get a redbull?".
>> >> > I
turned around to face the two of them with a bit of a guilty
smile
>> > on my face, after all
who the fuck really needs 32oz of redbull?
>> > Caffeine, other energy
drinks, productivity and I all get along
>> > swimmingly, all the
better if I can help someone else get things
>> > done.
>> > "Sure" I said,
followed by "make good use of it" in an attempt to
>> > make
>> > the situation more
casual. I walked up and handed him the redbull,
>> > his
>> > face lit up, he went
nuts.
>> >> >
**and I quote** "Oh man! Asking is so much better than stealing!"
>> >> >
The smile stayed on his face as he continued celebrating,
exclaiming
Liz Henry
lizhenry(a)gmail.com <javascript:;>
"Electric ladies will you sleep or
will you preach?" -- Janelle Monae
"Without models, it's hard to
work; without a context, difficult to
evaluate; without peers, nearly impossible
to speak." -- Joanna Russ
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
<javascript:;>
http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>_______________________________________________
>sudo-discuss mailing list
>sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org <javascript:;>
>http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
I also think
it gets less fun to rob men as they get older.
based on what? robbing young people is fun? this thread...
Nov 18, 2013 11:21:48 PM, sonja.trauss(a)gmail.com <javascript:;> wrote:
What are you talking about ?
On Monday, November 18, 2013, Liz Henry wrote:
I like to share fun anecdotes about how I was just hanging out on the
Internet on a public mailing list then met some pretty racist white
11:56 a.m.
New subject: my experiences with "crime" in oakland [part 1 of ?]
I don't mind discussing this topic as long as it's constructive and keeps
the finger pointing to a minimum.
Unfortunately there's plenty of shitty people out there...or as my mom used
to say, "asshole is a rainbow word." Honest and frank discussion about
assholes is not a bad thing...categorizing or generalizing those assholes
based on appearance or other factors is iffy and something I try to avoid.
-chrisbee
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
1:03 p.m.
New subject: my experiences with "crime" in oakland [part 1 of ?]
I still want to know whether David has any info/ insights on the relative
vulnerability to mugging of white v black men. Or if anyone on here has any
notion for vulnerability based on race.
For me, I notice that walking around with a white man generates more
threatening comments than if I was walking alone. That and also what
reports from white men about being mugged and held up leads me to believe I
would be more vulnerable to being mugged if I was a boy.
Are there any black girls on the list that have a similar set of anecdotal
datas? or black men walking alone v. walking w white men?
I can't tell if there is no personal data, or what. Rhodey gave some. It
confirmed the other data I had. Any more either way?
On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 11:56 AM, Chris Bee <hotelcompany(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I don't mind discussing this topic as long as
it's constructive and keeps
the finger pointing to a minimum.
Unfortunately there's plenty of shitty people out there...or as my mom
used to say, "asshole is a rainbow word." Honest and frank discussion about
assholes is not a bad thing...categorizing or generalizing those assholes
based on appearance or other factors is iffy and something I try to avoid.
-chrisbee
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
_______________________________________________
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http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
1:40 p.m.
Sonja,
If your question was not answered the first time please consider that
the people may not want to answer. No one should be pressured into
participating in a conversation, I for one am removing myself from whats
become of this. If anyone would still like to contact me about any of
the content I have put forth within this thread I ask that you please do
so in person or in an off-list email.
--
-- rhodey ˙ ͜ʟ˙
On 11/19/2013 01:03 PM, Sonja Trauss wrote:
I still want to know whether David has any info/
insights on the
relative vulnerability to mugging of white v black men. Or if anyone on
here has any notion for vulnerability based on race.
For me, I notice that walking around with a white man generates more
threatening comments than if I was walking alone. That and also what
reports from white men about being mugged and held up leads me to
believe I would be more vulnerable to being mugged if I was a boy.
Are there any black girls on the list that have a similar set of
anecdotal datas? or black men walking alone v. walking w white men?
I can't tell if there is no personal data, or what. Rhodey gave some. It
confirmed the other data I had. Any more either way?
On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 11:56 AM, Chris Bee <hotelcompany(a)gmail.com
<mailto:hotelcompany@gmail.com>> wrote:
I don't mind discussing this topic as long as it's constructive and
keeps the finger pointing to a minimum.
Unfortunately there's plenty of shitty people out there...or as my
mom used to say, "asshole is a rainbow word." Honest and frank
discussion about assholes is not a bad thing...categorizing or
generalizing those assholes based on appearance or other factors is
iffy and something I try to avoid.
-chrisbee
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>
http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org <mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>
http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
_______________________________________________
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sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
2 p.m.
New subject: my experiences with "crime" in oakland [part 1 of ?]
Thank you Rhodey - I appreciate the assist.
So I guess that this is the famous "call-out culture" of Sudoroom in
effect?
Sonja, I'll try to find some time to reply to this entire thread in a bit
(gainfully employed - none of that government money for me, thank you).
I AM a black person, but I am most unfortunately not a statistician nor a
sociologist, nor have I conducted any studies - formal or informal - on the
correlation between property crime and race. If you're genuinely curious
about the data and not just making some ... point, there's always Google.
Or DuckDuckGo. Whatever.
On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 1:40 PM, rhodey <rhodey(a)anhonesteffort.org> wrote:
Sonja,
If your question was not answered the first time please consider that
the people may not want to answer. No one should be pressured into
participating in a conversation, I for one am removing myself from whats
become of this. If anyone would still like to contact me about any of
the content I have put forth within this thread I ask that you please do
so in person or in an off-list email.
--
-- rhodey ˙ ͜ʟ˙
On 11/19/2013 01:03 PM, Sonja Trauss wrote:
I still want to know whether David has any info/
insights on the
relative vulnerability to mugging of white v black men. Or if anyone on
here has any notion for vulnerability based on race.
For me, I notice that walking around with a white man generates more
threatening comments than if I was walking alone. That and also what
reports from white men about being mugged and held up leads me to
believe I would be more vulnerable to being mugged if I was a boy.
Are there any black girls on the list that have a similar set of
anecdotal datas? or black men walking alone v. walking w white men?
I can't tell if there is no personal data, or what. Rhodey gave some. It
confirmed the other data I had. Any more either way?
On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 11:56 AM, Chris Bee <hotelcompany(a)gmail.com
<mailto:hotelcompany@gmail.com>> wrote:
I don't mind discussing this topic as long as it's constructive and
keeps the finger pointing to a minimum.
Unfortunately there's plenty of shitty people out there...or as my
mom used to say, "asshole is a rainbow word." Honest and frank
discussion about assholes is not a bad thing...categorizing or
generalizing those assholes based on appearance or other factors is
iffy and something I try to avoid.
-chrisbee
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>
http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org <mailto:
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org>
http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
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http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
_______________________________________________
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http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
3:56 p.m.
New subject: my experiences with "crime" in oakland [part 1 of ?]
You don't need to be a scientist to know about your own experience - that
is what I am asking about.
Stats are useful, but no one should rely on them exclusively, and for a lot
of things they are actively misleading. What's the point of knowing
different kinds of people if you can't get anecdotal data and social
theories from them?
I told you guys my experience - it's counter to the received wisdom on the
relative safety of white men and women in high crime neighborhoods. That's
why I think it's interesting.
Now other people, go.
On Tuesday, November 19, 2013, David Barthwell wrote:
Thank you Rhodey - I appreciate the assist.
So I guess that this is the famous "call-out culture" of Sudoroom in
effect?
Sonja, I'll try to find some time to reply to this entire thread in a bit
(gainfully employed - none of that government money for me, thank you).
I AM a black person, but I am most unfortunately not a statistician nor a
sociologist, nor have I conducted any studies - formal or informal - on the
correlation between property crime and race. If you're genuinely curious
about the data and not just making some ... point, there's always Google.
Or DuckDuckGo. Whatever.
On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 1:40 PM, rhodey
<rhodey@anhonesteffort.org<javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
'rhodey(a)anhonesteffort.org');>
wrote:
Sonja,
If your question was not answered the first time please consider that
the people may not want to answer. No one should be pressured into
participating in a conversation, I for one am removing myself from whats
become of this. If anyone would still like to contact me about any of
the content I have put forth within this thread I ask that you please do
so in person or in an off-list email.
--
-- rhodey ˙ ͜ʟ˙
On 11/19/2013 01:03 PM, Sonja Trauss wrote:
I still want to know whether David has any info/
insights on the
relative vulnerability to mugging of white v black men. Or if anyone on
here has any notion for vulnerability based on race.
For me, I notice that walking around with a white man generates more
threatening comments than if I was walking alone. That and also what
reports from white men about being mugged and held up leads me to
believe I would be more vulnerable to being mugged if I was a boy.
Are there any black girls on the list that have a similar set of
anecdotal datas? or black men walking alone v. walking w white men?
I can't tell if there is no personal data, or what. Rhodey gave some. It
confirmed the other data I had. Any more either way?
On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 11:56 AM, Chris Bee
<hotelcompany@gmail.com<javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
'hotelcompany(a)gmail.com');>
<mailto:hotelcompany@gmail.com <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
'hotelcompany(a)gmail.com');>>> wrote:
I don't mind discussing this topic as long as it's constructive and
keeps the finger pointing to a minimum.
Unfortunately there's plenty of shitty people out there...or as my
mom used to say, "asshole is a rainbow word." Honest and frank
discussion about assholes is not a bad thing...categorizing or
generalizing those assholes based on appearance or other factors is
iffy and something I try to avoid.
-chrisbee
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
'sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org');>
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org <javascript:_e({},
'cvml',
'sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org');>>
http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
'sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org');> <mailto:
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
'sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org');>>
http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
_______________________________________________
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'sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org');>
_______________________________________________
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'sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org');>
http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
2:11 p.m.
I hope no one is forming opinions on the whole of sudo room based on communications
originating from specific people. If you look back on the archives, I think there are
many personalities that are vocal on the sudo-discuss list - this does not translate into
cultural influence, nor should it be construed as representative of the values anyone
other than the person behind their own keyboard. I for one do not consider anyone a
representative of my race, culture, social group, profession, or family and it is
unfortunate that we have repeated probings asking for the same from a sudoer on the basis
of race-based perspective. Anyways, I hope no one is confusing post volume on the list
discussion with representation of sudo room values
cheers,
Hol
Nov 19, 2013 02:00:31 PM, david(a)vergegraphics.com wrote:
Thank you Rhodey - I appreciate the assist.
If your question was not answered the first time
please consider that
the people may not want to answer. No one should
be pressured into
participating in a conversation, I for one am
removing myself from whats
become of this. If anyone would still like to
contact me about any of
the content I have put forth within this thread
I ask that you please do
so in person or in an off-list email.
--
-- rhodey ˙ ͜ʟ˙
On 11/19/2013 01:03 PM, Sonja Trauss wrote:
> I still want to know whether David has any
info/ insights on the
> relative vulnerability to mugging of white
v black men. Or if anyone on
> here has any notion for vulnerability based
on race.
> For me, I notice that walking around with a
white man generates more
> threatening comments than if I was walking
alone. That and also what
> reports from white men about being mugged
and held up leads me to
> believe I would be more vulnerable to being
mugged if I was a boy.
> Are there any black girls on the list that
have a similar set of
> anecdotal datas? or black men walking
alone v. walking w white men?
> I can't tell if there is no personal
data, or what. Rhodey gave some. It
> confirmed the other data I had. Any more
either way?
> On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 11:56 AM, Chris Bee
hotelcompany(a)gmail.com
> hotelcompany(a)gmail.com>> wrote:
> I don't mind discussing this topic
as long as it's constructive and
> keeps the finger pointing to a
minimum.
> Unfortunately there's plenty of
shitty people out there...or as my
> mom used to say, "asshole is a
rainbow word." Honest and frank
> discussion about assholes is not a bad
thing...categorizing or
> generalizing those assholes based on
appearance or other factors is
> iffy and something I try to avoid.
> -chrisbee
>
_______________________________________________
> sudo-discuss mailing list
> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>
_______________________________________________
> sudo-discuss mailing list
> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >
http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>
_______________________________________________
> sudo-discuss mailing list
> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
>
http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
_______________________________________________
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http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>_______________________________________________
>sudo-discuss mailing list
>sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
>http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
So I guess that this is the famous "call-out culture" of Sudoroom in effect?
Sonja, I'll try to find some time to reply to this entire thread in a bit (gainfully
employed - none of that government money for me, thank you).
I AM a black person, but I am most unfortunately not a
statistician nor a sociologist, nor have I conducted any studies - formal or informal - on
the correlation between property crime and race. If you're genuinely curious about
the data and not just making some ... point, there's always Google. Or DuckDuckGo.
Whatever.
On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 1:40 PM, rhodey rhodey(a)anhonesteffort.org> wrote:
Sonja,
2:34 p.m.
As a warning, unless you're working on a project regarding
race/sex/gender, then I wouldn't discuss it here. In other activist
spaces, these discussions were used as a tool (by groups unknown to me)
to label the space as racist or sexist. If you're using any physical
characteristics to describe something negative about a person, then I'm
going to take offense to it. If you have a problem with something, use
the name of that person specifically for that particular instance.
Otherwise, you're using labels with no purpose except to associate
negative ideas about a race, sex, or gender.
Jeremy
On 2013-11-19 14:11, Hol Gaskill wrote:
I hope no one is forming opinions on the whole of sudo
room based on
communications originating from specific people. If you look back on
the archives, I think there are many personalities that are vocal on
the sudo-discuss list - this does not translate into cultural
influence, nor should it be construed as representative of the values
anyone other than the person behind their own keyboard. I for one do
not consider anyone a representative of my race, culture, social
group, profession, or family and it is unfortunate that we have
repeated probings asking for the same from a sudoer on the basis of
race-based perspective. Anyways, I hope no one is confusing post
volume on the list discussion with representation of sudo room values
cheers,
Hol
Nov 19, 2013 02:00:31 PM, david(a)vergegraphics.com wrote:
Thank you Rhodey - I appreciate the assist.
If your question was not answered the
first time please consider that
the people may not want to answer. No one
should be pressured into
participating in a conversation, I for
one am removing myself from
whats
become of this. If anyone would still
like to contact me about any of
the content I have put forth within this
thread I ask that you please
do
so in person or in an off-list email.
--
-- rhodey ˙ ͜ʟ˙
On 11/19/2013 01:03 PM, Sonja Trauss
wrote:
> I still want to know whether David
has any info/ insights on the
> relative vulnerability to mugging of
white v black men. Or if anyone
> on
> here has any notion for vulnerability
based on race.
> For me, I notice that walking
around with a white man generates more
> threatening comments than if I was
walking alone. That and also what
> reports from white men about being
mugged and held up leads me to
> believe I would be more vulnerable to
being mugged if I was a boy.
> Are there any black girls on
the list that have a similar set of
> anecdotal datas? or black men
walking alone v. walking w white men?
> I can't tell if there is no
personal data, or what. Rhodey gave some.
> It
> confirmed the other data I had. Any
more either way?
> On Tue, Nov
19, 2013 at 11:56 AM, Chris Bee hotelcompany(a)gmail.com
> hotelcompany(a)gmail.com>>
wrote:
> I don't mind discussing
this topic as long as it's constructive
> and
> keeps the finger pointing to a
minimum.
> Unfortunately there's
plenty of shitty people out there...or as my
> mom used to say, "asshole is
a rainbow word." Honest and frank
> discussion about assholes is not
a bad thing...categorizing or
> generalizing those assholes based
on appearance or other factors
> is
> iffy and something I try to
avoid.
> -chrisbee
>
_______________________________________________
> sudo-discuss mailing list
>
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
>
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org>
>
http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> _______________________________________________
> sudo-discuss mailing list
> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org>
>
http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> _______________________________________________
> sudo-discuss mailing list
> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
>
http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>
_______________________________________________
> sudo-discuss mailing list
> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
--
https://twitter.com/jwentwistle
So I guess that this is the famous "call-out culture" of Sudoroom in
effect?
Sonja, I'll try to find some time to reply to this entire thread in a
bit (gainfully employed - none of that government money for me, thank
you).
I AM a black person, but I am most unfortunately
not a statistician
nor a sociologist, nor have I conducted any studies - formal or
informal - on the correlation between property crime and race. If
you're genuinely curious about the data and not just making some ...
point, there's always Google. Or DuckDuckGo. Whatever.
On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 1:40 PM, rhodey rhodey(a)anhonesteffort.org wrote:
Sonja,
2:49 p.m.
New subject: my experiences with "crime" in oakland [part 1 of ?]
I don't think rhodey was trying to stir up controversy, he asked a valid
question and I think I answered it to the best of my ability. If I offended
anyone I apologize, but I don't see how I could have (assuming you're not
an asshole).
And...on that note I feel like I've shared everything I need to share here.
-chrisbee
On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 2:34 PM, Jeremy Entwistle <jwentwistle(a)cryptolab.net
wrote:
> As a warning, unless you're working on a project regarding
> race/sex/gender, then I wouldn't discuss it here. In other activist spaces,
> these discussions were used as a tool (by groups unknown to me) to label
> the space as racist or sexist. If you're using any physical characteristics
> to describe something negative about a person, then I'm going to take
> offense to it. If you have a problem with something, use the name of that
> person specifically for that particular instance. Otherwise, you're using
> labels with no purpose except to associate negative ideas about a race,
> sex, or gender.
>
> Jeremy
>
>
> On 2013-11-19 14:11, Hol Gaskill wrote:
>
>> I hope no one is forming opinions on the whole of sudo room based on
>> communications originating from specific people. If you look back on
>> the archives, I think there are many personalities that are vocal on
>> the sudo-discuss list - this does not translate into cultural
>> influence, nor should it be construed as representative of the values
>> anyone other than the person behind their own keyboard. I for one do
>> not consider anyone a representative of my race, culture, social
>> group, profession, or family and it is unfortunate that we have
>> repeated probings asking for the same from a sudoer on the basis of
>> race-based perspective. Anyways, I hope no one is confusing post
>> volume on the list discussion with representation of sudo room values
>>
>> cheers,
>> Hol
>>
>>
>> Nov 19, 2013 02:00:31 PM, david(a)vergegraphics.com wrote:
>> Thank you Rhodey - I appreciate the assist.
>>
>>>
>>> So I guess that this is the famous "call-out culture" of Sudoroom
in
>>> effect?
>>>
>>> Sonja, I'll try to find some time to reply to this entire thread in a
>>> bit (gainfully employed - none of that government money for me, thank you).
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I AM a black person, but I am most unfortunately not a statistician nor
>>> a sociologist, nor have I conducted any studies - formal or informal - on
>>> the correlation between property crime and race. If you're genuinely
>>> curious about the data and not just making some ... point, there's
always
>>> Google. Or DuckDuckGo. Whatever.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 1:40 PM, rhodey rhodey(a)anhonesteffort.org>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Sonja,
>>>
>>>
>>
>>> If your question was not answered the first time please consider that
>>
>>>
>>> the people may not want to answer. No one should be pressured into
>>
>>>
>>> participating in a conversation, I for one am removing myself from whats
>>
>>>
>>> become of this. If anyone would still like to contact me about any of
>>
>>>
>>> the content I have put forth within this thread I ask that you please do
>>
>>>
>>> so in person or in an off-list email.
>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>> --
>>
>>>
>>> -- rhodey ˙ ͜ʟ˙
>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>> On 11/19/2013 01:03 PM, Sonja Trauss wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I still want to know whether David has any info/ insights on the
>>>
>>> relative vulnerability to mugging of white v black men. Or if anyone on
>>>
>>> here has any notion for vulnerability based on race.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> For me, I notice that walking around with a white man generates more
>>>
>>> threatening comments than if I was walking alone. That and also what
>>>
>>> reports from white men about being mugged and held up leads me to
>>>
>>> believe I would be more vulnerable to being mugged if I was a boy.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Are there any black girls on the list that have a similar set of
>>>
>>> anecdotal datas? or black men walking alone v. walking w white men?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I can't tell if there is no personal data, or what. Rhodey gave some. It
>>>
>>> confirmed the other data I had. Any more either way?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 11:56 AM, Chris Bee hotelcompany(a)gmail.com
>>>
>>> hotelcompany(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't mind discussing this topic as long as it's constructive
and
>>>
>>> keeps the finger pointing to a minimum.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Unfortunately there's plenty of shitty people out there...or as my
>>>
>>> mom used to say, "asshole is a rainbow word." Honest and frank
>>>
>>> discussion about assholes is not a bad thing...categorizing or
>>>
>>> generalizing those assholes based on appearance or other factors is
>>>
>>> iffy and something I try to avoid.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -chrisbee
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>>
>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
>>>
>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org>
>>>
>>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>>
>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org>
>>>
>>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>>
>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
>>>
>>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>>
>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>
>>>
>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
>>
>>>
>>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
>>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>
>
> --
> https://twitter.com/jwentwistle
>
> _______________________________________________
> sudo-discuss mailing list
> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>
20 Nov
20 Nov
1:14 p.m.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
On 11/19/2013 02:11 PM, Hol Gaskill wrote:
I hope no one is forming opinions on the whole of sudo
room based
on communications originating from specific people. If you look
back on the archives,
I think there are
many personalities that are vocal on the sudo-discuss
list - this
does not translate into
cultural influence, nor should it be construed as
representative
of
the values anyone
other than the person behind their own keyboard. I
for one do not
consider anyone
I suppose that's my cue...
Hello, everyone. I'm new to Oakland, I've been here only a couple of
weeks. I've also been to Sudo Room once or twice and run into members
around the city in recent memory. I met a couple of people who seemed
like good eggs. I've also been lurking on this mailing list for a
while, and the general tone of this discussion has caused me to
reconsider joining Sudo Room. My concerns are whether or not it's the
sort of place I could call home due to the social dynamics. However,
Hol, I will spend some time reading the archives before making such a
decision.
- --
The Doctor [412/724/301/703] [ZS]
PGP: 0x807B17C1 / 7960 1CDC 85C9 0B63 8D9F DD89 3BD8 FF2B 807B 17C1
WWW: https://drwho.virtadpt.net/
This e-mail was written using the Armstrong E-mail Composition
Technique, which has been passed down in my family for generations.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/
iEYEARECAAYFAlKNJi8ACgkQO9j/K4B7F8EkMwCg9rPJoxZ2de12CEBowupZGDoR
MJcAoJKmp9V7TpLasU2sQE6QqGSqHRFI
=JBxv
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
1:43 p.m.
I don't think there's anything particularly shocking on the list archives - many
lively discussions with all sorts of opinions as you might have on any other forum.
Honestly there's too much material there to make it worth your while to even skim, in
my opinion. My point was primarily that 2 people - one who exclusively spent meatspace
time sudo room, and one who exclusively engaged online - would form very different
theories about the culture here. As far as being physically there, it has had its ups and
downs as you might expect. There was the initial excitement of finally getting to the
stage of having a room and not just a closet, and a flurry of work parties to set up
infrastructure. Membership meetings swelled and alot of new people came around. for a
time, there were a few conflicts and some procedural wrangling that sort of took center
stage at the general meetings and turned off a few people who would come to meetings as
first time visitors. Alot of the early growing pains have been settled now - we have
hacked together a pretty good access system, we have thriving spinoffs and subgroups
meeting, the public school's presence has been a boon to overall pollination and
community vibe, and it looks like we're set to keep making rent. Please do come by
the meeting tonight and introduce yourself! That's the best social dynamics input I
think you could have in your opinion-forming process, that or coming to a meetup for
another project at the space: https://sudoroom.org/calendar/
Cheers,
Hol
Nov 20, 2013 01:14:30 PM, drwho(a)virtadpt.net wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
On 11/19/2013 02:11 PM, Hol Gaskill wrote:
I hope no one is forming opinions on the whole of
sudo room based
on communications originating from specific people. If you look
back on the archives,
I think there are
many personalities that are vocal on the
sudo-discuss list - this
does not translate into
cultural influence, nor should it be construed as
representative
of
the values anyone
other than the person behind their own keyboard.
I for one do not
consider anyone
I suppose that's my cue...
Hello, everyone. I'm new to Oakland, I've been here only a couple of
weeks. I've also been to Sudo Room once or twice and run into members
around the city in recent memory. I met a couple of people who seemed
like good eggs. I've also been lurking on this mailing list for a
while, and the general tone of this discussion has caused me to
reconsider joining Sudo Room. My concerns are whether or not it's the
sort of place I could call home due to the social dynamics. However,
Hol, I will spend some time reading the archives before making such a
decision.
- --
The Doctor [412/724/301/703] [ZS]
PGP: 0x807B17C1 / 7960 1CDC 85C9 0B63 8D9F DD89 3BD8 FF2B 807B 17C1
WWW: https://drwho.virtadpt.net/
This e-mail was written using the Armstrong E-mail Composition
Technique, which has been passed down in my family for generations.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/
iEYEARECAAYFAlKNJi8ACgkQO9j/K4B7F8EkMwCg9rPJoxZ2de12CEBowupZGDoR
MJcAoJKmp9V7TpLasU2sQE6QqGSqHRFI
=JBxv
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
19 Nov
19 Nov
1:46 p.m.
New subject: my experiences with "crime" in oakland [part 1 of ?]
Instead of calling on random POC to take the time educated you and speak
for the experiences diverse groups they may or may not identify with, I
think there is a twitter account that can answer some these questions for
you: https://twitter.com/WhiteFeminist
On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 1:03 PM, Sonja Trauss <sonja.trauss(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:
I still want to know whether David has any info/
insights on the relative
vulnerability to mugging of white v black men. Or if anyone on here has any
notion for vulnerability based on race.
For me, I notice that walking around with a white man generates more
threatening comments than if I was walking alone. That and also what
reports from white men about being mugged and held up leads me to believe I
would be more vulnerable to being mugged if I was a boy.
Are there any black girls on the list that have a similar set of anecdotal
datas? or black men walking alone v. walking w white men?
I can't tell if there is no personal data, or what. Rhodey gave some. It
confirmed the other data I had. Any more either way?
On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 11:56 AM, Chris Bee <hotelcompany(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:
I don't mind discussing this topic as long as
it's constructive and keeps
the finger pointing to a minimum.
Unfortunately there's plenty of shitty people out there...or as my mom
used to say, "asshole is a rainbow word." Honest and frank discussion about
assholes is not a bad thing...categorizing or generalizing those assholes
based on appearance or other factors is iffy and something I try to avoid.
-chrisbee
_______________________________________________
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
18 Nov
18 Nov
9:58 p.m.
I tried to share this experience of mine without adding my
interpretations such that all my fellow sudoers could be free to draw
their own. But now I worry that in doing so I may have made my
intentions in brining up a sensitive subject a bit too blurry, sorry :)
My takeaway from this experience is that crime is largely a reinforced,
logical behavior which sometimes can be bested not by cops or
surveillance cameras, but by the most simple of social interactions.
Avoiding crime and preventing crime are two different problems to
tackle, and while I hope each and everyone of you is able to avoid
crime, I hope more that we can use our small little Sudo Room and our
larger future Sudo Space to instead make it illogical by providing
better alternatives. But first we have to understand the motivations,
thus my contribution of the text below.
--
-- rhodey ˙ ͜ʟ˙
On 11/18/2013 06:55 PM, rhodey wrote:
Receiving and contemplating the perspectives of others
is one of my
favorite ways to burn metaphorical CPU cycles. The level of respect I
show for differing perspectives is something I hope to never be
content with, that is to say I believe it's an endless process and I'm
still working on it. I have a tendency to keep my head stuck in
projects and have realized is that I've been holding out on sharing
many of my most valued perspectives, more specifically my experiences.
It is my hope that through sharing experiences we can better
understand how to conduct ourselves within Sudo Room and how we Sudo
Room can better conduct ourselves within our local community.
I arrived in the "bay area" May 1st by way of some airport in New
England, in search of hackers, activists and uncomfortable
experiences. After subletting an apartment in the mission for all of a
month I moved to West Oakland. Since arriving in Oakland I've been
robbed three times, to me each experience has been indescribably
educational in its own way. However, my first crime related experience
in Oakland was not a crime at all.
There is a corner store within ~6 minutes walking distance from my
apartment by West Oakland BART called Happy Times. To me it is usually
a liquor store, but this day I felt like working through the night so
I bought 2 large redbull energy drinks. Walking home holding the
redbull as best I could in one hand I passed two African-American
youths, one female, one male and both no older than 17. We passed each
other and at this time I was about 20" from home then from behind me I
heard "hey man, can I get a redbull?".
I turned around to face the two of them with a bit of a guilty smile
on my face, after all who the fuck really needs 32oz of redbull?
Caffeine, other energy drinks, productivity and I all get along
swimmingly, all the better if I can help someone else get things done.
"Sure" I said, followed by "make good use of it" in an attempt to
make
the situation more casual. I walked up and handed him the redbull, his
face lit up, he went nuts.
**and I quote** "Oh man! Asking is so much better than stealing!"
The smile stayed on his face as he continued celebrating, exclaiming
all possible iterations of the above statement as I stood their
dumbfounded. This continued for minutes until we parted ways, up the
stairs and into the house I could still hear him talking with his friend.
This was certainly not the first time he'd been told of this
sentiment, but after ~17 years of living it was the first time he had
ever believed it. There are at least 3 other experiences I would like
to share in time, but for now I'll leave it at this.
19 Nov
19 Nov
2:09 p.m.
New subject: my experiences with "crime" in oakland [part 1 of ?]
Just want to poke my head up to applaud Rhodey for sharing a story that
makes me smile and prompts some thoughts. And also to generally commend the
practice of telling stories! I appreciate the spirit in which this one was
offered: with an effort by the storyteller (perhaps not perfect, but so
what?) to avoid generalizing or drawing conclusions.
Last night I had what I now realize was the incredible honor to see the
premiere of "Beauty in Truth," a film about Alice Walker's life. Ms.
Walker, the filmmaker, and Geena Davis (with her philanthropy hat on) were
among those who spoke and took questions.
One recurring theme in the film was the way various groups (ranging from
her family members to white America to the Black Power movement etc)
responded to Ms. Walker's various efforts to tell her stories. At one point
in the movie, following the explosive and vitriolic response to the movie
version of The Color Purple, Oprah Winfrey made a brief appearance saying
essentially, "This is *one woman* telling *her story*. Why is everybody
acting as though it has to be *the one, true, correct* story? Everybody
just chill out." (Yes, this is my paraphrase and not accurate!)
I had a similar reaction when I read some of the critical response to the
film Fruitvale Station.
So..I would just like to echo Oprah here, and encourage anybody with a
story to they see value in sharing to do so, and the rest of us to keep in
mind that telling a story is NOT necessarily the same thing as making a
generalization! Story does not equal data (or at least, not statistically
reliable data). But it would be silly to conclude that story is not useful!
It doesn't have to be data to be useful.
I appreciate reading all the thoughts in this thread -- even though it's
gotten heated, every one of you has had something thought-provoking to
contribute.
Pete
On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 6:55 PM, rhodey <rhodey(a)anhonesteffort.org> wrote:
Receiving and contemplating the perspectives of others
is one of my
favorite ways to burn metaphorical CPU cycles. The level of respect I
show for differing perspectives is something I hope to never be
content with, that is to say I believe it's an endless process and I'm
still working on it. I have a tendency to keep my head stuck in
projects and have realized is that I've been holding out on sharing
many of my most valued perspectives, more specifically my experiences.
It is my hope that through sharing experiences we can better
understand how to conduct ourselves within Sudo Room and how we Sudo
Room can better conduct ourselves within our local community.
I arrived in the "bay area" May 1st by way of some airport in New
England, in search of hackers, activists and uncomfortable
experiences. After subletting an apartment in the mission for all of a
month I moved to West Oakland. Since arriving in Oakland I've been
robbed three times, to me each experience has been indescribably
educational in its own way. However, my first crime related experience
in Oakland was not a crime at all.
There is a corner store within ~6 minutes walking distance from my
apartment by West Oakland BART called Happy Times. To me it is usually
a liquor store, but this day I felt like working through the night so
I bought 2 large redbull energy drinks. Walking home holding the
redbull as best I could in one hand I passed two African-American
youths, one female, one male and both no older than 17. We passed each
other and at this time I was about 20" from home then from behind me I
heard "hey man, can I get a redbull?".
I turned around to face the two of them with a bit of a guilty smile
on my face, after all who the fuck really needs 32oz of redbull?
Caffeine, other energy drinks, productivity and I all get along
swimmingly, all the better if I can help someone else get things done.
"Sure" I said, followed by "make good use of it" in an attempt to
make
the situation more casual. I walked up and handed him the redbull, his
face lit up, he went nuts.
**and I quote** "Oh man! Asking is so much better than stealing!"
The smile stayed on his face as he continued celebrating, exclaiming
all possible iterations of the above statement as I stood their
dumbfounded. This continued for minutes until we parted ways, up the
stairs and into the house I could still hear him talking with his friend.
This was certainly not the first time he'd been told of this
sentiment, but after ~17 years of living it was the first time he had
ever believed it. There are at least 3 other experiences I would like
to share in time, but for now I'll leave it at this.
--
-- rhodey ˙ ͜ʟ˙
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
3831
days inactive
3832
days old
28 comments
12 participants
participants (12)
-
AnimationAmber . -
Chris Bee -
David Barthwell -
GtwoG PublicOhOne -
Hol Gaskill -
Jeremy Entwistle -
Liz Henry -
Marcus Owens -
Pete Forsyth -
rhodey -
Sonja Trauss -
The Doctor