Re: [sudo-discuss] Backspace Space proposal - sudo-discuss

Sara Larsen

16 Oct 16 Oct

1:25 p.m.

New subject: Backspace Space proposal

Hi Yar, Thanks so much for your email. I hope my email didn't sound like I think anyone at the omni is acting in bad faith, because I don't. Everyone is working hard to pull pieces together in a complex situation. I agree it's a complicated fog. My email was sent in the spirit of openness, honesty and I hope, healing. I took a risk in saying a lot of what I said in the hopes that others will also express the underlying feelings coming up around this project. Dealing openly with these things is one of the ways we can keep the culture of the Omni healthy. Yar, I appreciate your work as well, which I know is vast and not always easy! Re: my email about Scott's suggestion - I really just wanted to point out that we had already suggested what he suggested, and it was not a new idea. In my opinion, however, it is a good idea. My take away from that BAPS mtg was that BAPS members were not ready to commit then or likely later to this idea. I was encouraged to move forward with backspace on our own, which is what I brought back to Backspace and is what we did. BAPS has since changed their idea and relationship to space due to a push forward from some members who are worried about not having space. This is in progress. But that change happened AFTER our meeting and after backspace had taken the advice to move on. Being members of both groups at this time is challenging for me, for obvious reasons. Backspace's rush is that we need space to open so that we can make money so that we can pay rent and utilities to the Omni. If we can't do that, my guess is that we will have to disband and then the Omni would lose another member group, which I and I think no one else would like to see happen. Xo On Thursday, October 16, 2014, yar <yardenack(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

On Thursday, October 16, 2014, Scott Nanos <scott.nanos(a)gmail.com <javascript:;>> wrote:

> Crazy idea but I'm also a little worried that BAPS and commons > Wg don't have the labor power to handle all this commoning

(pragmatically

> speaking, in the form of scheduling and organizing)... > > What if Baps, backspace, and commons wg all teamed up on these common > spaces, granting *x* amount of privileged hours in specific areas for > collectives?

On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 8:18 AM, Sara Larsen <saralarsenyoga(a)gmail.com <javascript:;>> wrote:

However, I feel like your suggestion is exactly what I was trying to move forward with the BAPS backspace proposal that BAPS recently voted against moving forward with!

Is that what happened? I didn't go to every single meeting but my understanding was that BAPS were still open to it but needed more time to talk about it and make up their minds, and Backspace just doesn't want to wait any longer. It seemed (from the outside) like this urgency and time pressure for Backspace was the biggest reason why things didn't work out that way. It's not that I blame you. I can imagine how frustrating it is to try to organize a bunch of skeptical bodyworkers to do their work at Omni, this weird building full of construction debris, contentious politics, dysfunctional processes and so on. Trying to create a wellness collective at Omni at this time is an ambitious goal and I fully recognize and respect all the emotional labor that I've seen you and other Backspace folks put into it, Sara, and I want it to succeed too. I think the new energy and people you guys bring in will be an especially valuable thing for all of us and our communities. I only hope that you can try not to blame the rest of us either for the difficult situation. We've all been working very hard with what we have. I feel like we're reaching at each other through a fog of fear, uncertainty and doubt, trying to make high-stakes decisions that might affect us all years into the future, when we only have a few months or even weeks of experience being in some of our spaces and learning to know and trust all the people. There are so many rooms with different names. It's been 24 hours since your proposal and it's taken us this long just to be sure exactly which rooms you're talking about. There's confusion over what commoning means (the commons wg only started meeting 2 weeks ago), what scheduling will feel like (we're still developing the calendar system), what the rooms will look and feel like, whether people will clean up their messes like they say they will, and any number of hypothetical scarcities and disasters that we have no idea if the future might bring. It's not your fault, it's not anybody else's fault either. I really hope the confusion isn't interpreted as bad faith or a lack of support. We all need to get better at that, of course, but also get better at forgiving each others' mistakes, in the spirit of jubilee. Sorry for the rant, but thanks for listening. <3

-- Let us be together, Let us eat together, Let us be vital together, Let us be radiating truth, radiating the light of life, Never shall we denounce anyone, never entertain negativity. -- The Upanishads

Reply

D. Scott Nanos

1:51 p.m.

New subject: [BAPS-Organizing] Re: Backspace Space proposal

as always, niki, you say everything i want to say, only more logical and concise :) sorry for my long emails, i don't know any other way to write them! Trying to learn! xo Scott On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 1:49 PM, niki <niki.shelley(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

I wanna keep this short and communicate more in-person (I agree the emails can be overwhelming). I just want to say that I FULLY support and love the Wellness Collective!! I am so impressed by all of the incredible work that has gone into organizing and putting forth these proposals. I have no doubt that the Omni community really wants to see this project succeed beyond anyone's wildest imagination. We're also very overwhelmed with all of the intersecting questions and concerns that are arising around multiple concurrent proposals. We're really trying incredibly hard to ensure that the whole community has the ability to thrive. That involves asking and being open to receiving lots of questions. Please don't interpret these questions as a lack of support but rather in response to what we have already learned, over these few short months trying to figure out how to share space not just with each other but with the larger community. Poor Gabriella's been through months of back and forth!! There's no question that this is all very stressful!! I am really hopeful that we can all learn better, healthier ways of doing all of this work. I love you all very much and can't wait to have Backspace up and running at the Omni! <3 N On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 1:25 PM, Sara Larsen <saralarsenyoga(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Yar, Thanks so much for your email. I hope my email didn't sound like I think anyone at the omni is acting in bad faith, because I don't. Everyone is working hard to pull pieces together in a complex situation. I agree it's a complicated fog. My email was sent in the spirit of openness, honesty and I hope, healing. I took a risk in saying a lot of what I said in the hopes that others will also express the underlying feelings coming up around this project. Dealing openly with these things is one of the ways we can keep the culture of the Omni healthy. Yar, I appreciate your work as well, which I know is vast and not always easy! Re: my email about Scott's suggestion - I really just wanted to point out that we had already suggested what he suggested, and it was not a new idea. In my opinion, however, it is a good idea. My take away from that BAPS mtg was that BAPS members were not ready to commit then or likely later to this idea. I was encouraged to move forward with backspace on our own, which is what I brought back to Backspace and is what we did. BAPS has since changed their idea and relationship to space due to a push forward from some members who are worried about not having space. This is in progress. But that change happened AFTER our meeting and after backspace had taken the advice to move on. Being members of both groups at this time is challenging for me, for obvious reasons. Backspace's rush is that we need space to open so that we can make money so that we can pay rent and utilities to the Omni. If we can't do that, my guess is that we will have to disband and then the Omni would lose another member group, which I and I think no one else would like to see happen. Xo On Thursday, October 16, 2014, yar <yardenack(a)gmail.com> wrote:

On Thursday, October 16, 2014, Scott Nanos <scott.nanos(a)gmail.com> wrote:

> Crazy idea but I'm also a little worried that BAPS and commons > Wg don't have the labor power to handle all this commoning

(pragmatically

> speaking, in the form of scheduling and organizing)... > > What if Baps, backspace, and commons wg all teamed up on these common > spaces, granting *x* amount of privileged hours in specific areas for > collectives?

On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 8:18 AM, Sara Larsen <saralarsenyoga(a)gmail.com> wrote:

However, I feel like your suggestion is exactly what I was trying to

move

forward with the BAPS backspace proposal that BAPS recently voted

against

moving forward with!

Is that what happened? I didn't go to every single meeting but my understanding was that BAPS were still open to it but needed more time to talk about it and make up their minds, and Backspace just doesn't want to wait any longer. It seemed (from the outside) like this urgency and time pressure for Backspace was the biggest reason why things didn't work out that way. It's not that I blame you. I can imagine how frustrating it is to try to organize a bunch of skeptical bodyworkers to do their work at Omni, this weird building full of construction debris, contentious politics, dysfunctional processes and so on. Trying to create a wellness collective at Omni at this time is an ambitious goal and I fully recognize and respect all the emotional labor that I've seen you and other Backspace folks put into it, Sara, and I want it to succeed too. I think the new energy and people you guys bring in will be an especially valuable thing for all of us and our communities. I only hope that you can try not to blame the rest of us either for the difficult situation. We've all been working very hard with what we have. I feel like we're reaching at each other through a fog of fear, uncertainty and doubt, trying to make high-stakes decisions that might affect us all years into the future, when we only have a few months or even weeks of experience being in some of our spaces and learning to know and trust all the people. There are so many rooms with different names. It's been 24 hours since your proposal and it's taken us this long just to be sure exactly which rooms you're talking about. There's confusion over what commoning means (the commons wg only started meeting 2 weeks ago), what scheduling will feel like (we're still developing the calendar system), what the rooms will look and feel like, whether people will clean up their messes like they say they will, and any number of hypothetical scarcities and disasters that we have no idea if the future might bring. It's not your fault, it's not anybody else's fault either. I really hope the confusion isn't interpreted as bad faith or a lack of support. We all need to get better at that, of course, but also get better at forgiving each others' mistakes, in the spirit of jubilee. Sorry for the rant, but thanks for listening. <3

-- Let us be together, Let us eat together, Let us be vital together, Let us be radiating truth, radiating the light of life, Never shall we denounce anyone, never entertain negativity. -- The Upanishads

Reply

D. Scott Nanos

1:50 p.m.

New subject: [BAPS-Organizing] Re: Backspace Space proposal

Sara, what i offered last night was (i believe,) slightly different than what we talked about in person, if i remember correctly. I think i even voiced the same idea at that meeting... my idea was to have no dedicated large space for either baps or backspace, but to rather declare these areas as common spaces and ensure that both BAPS and BS have the hours and space they need to hold classes/workshops etc. The initial BS proposal was, I believe, one dedicated space for baps, and some separate dedicated space for BS. I think i even remember asking you right at the end to just include BAPS in your proposal w/o division of common space, and then the next day i got the email that backspace was removing baps from the proposal. Which is totally ok! I and some other members want to wait one more week to see if there's any other way we could go about the den, but i, as well as everyone at BAPS meeting last night, is totally in favor of BS and the proposal! We/I love you and backspace!! <3 maybe this is too semantic and nit-picky and based on fear. maybe we do need to have more good faith. these are questions i thought about last night too... your concerns are warranted, and i feel them as well. Also the necessity for large dedicated space for BAPS and BS might be ultimately necessary. someone at Baps said last night that we may be setting ourselves up to be pushed out of the omni due to our lofty ideals and resistance to having dedicated space. BAPS consented last night on giving BS designated space of porthole room and TIL/kids room asap, and to wait one week to think about any creative solution to the den. It's my thinking that essentially all BS needs right now is a.) storage for mats tinctures etc etc, and b.) a small room for 1on1's. Right now, no one is using the den or the disco room in any official manner so, our thinking at BAPS last night was that BS could effectively start doing everything they wanted to right now, by having the TIL/kids room and the porthole room (BS could even use the bunker/haunted classroom in the interim until TIL moves upstairs)? But also, this is all flexible, I'm personally not 100% sure about this "counter-proposal" coming from BAPS, although at the moment it seems like the best option, one that helps BS too and doesn't run the risk of making a big decision too quickly? for the record, BAPS is also taking off our own designated space proposal, to my knowledge, or is at the very least rewording it so that it is common space as opposed to designated space, with the assumption that BAPS and commons wg would work together on it (or something like that- yesterday's meeting was constructive but confusing- everyone is trying to do the best they can, i promise!) that being said, there is *absolutely* (!) no one saying no to BS. BAPS <3's BS. I <3 BS. BAPS <3 Sara. I <3 Sara. And i'm so sorry for the trouble this is causing you!!! BAPS strongly thinks that one more week would be a good idea (for the den space only) in order to have a little more time to think creatively about it. BAPS wants BS to have the other spaces ASAP b/c it seems like BS could effectively start asap if ya'll had those spaces to use... But also, nothing is set in stone, let's talk about this tonight with love. It was even surprising how, w/in the Baps meeting, basically everyone had a different opinion re: what to do about common space, space for BAPS, and space for BS. But one thing is for certain, at least in my mind: that Backspace will have everything it needs to function and thrive. I care so much about healing and carework and i'm in desperate need of some care myself (just got diagnosed with cubital tunnel syndrome on monday, and i'm pretty sure i'm not the only bapser who suffers from it). love, Scott On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 1:25 PM, Sara Larsen <saralarsenyoga(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

Hi Yar, Thanks so much for your email. I hope my email didn't sound like I think anyone at the omni is acting in bad faith, because I don't. Everyone is working hard to pull pieces together in a complex situation. I agree it's a complicated fog. My email was sent in the spirit of openness, honesty and I hope, healing. I took a risk in saying a lot of what I said in the hopes that others will also express the underlying feelings coming up around this project. Dealing openly with these things is one of the ways we can keep the culture of the Omni healthy. Yar, I appreciate your work as well, which I know is vast and not always easy! Re: my email about Scott's suggestion - I really just wanted to point out that we had already suggested what he suggested, and it was not a new idea. In my opinion, however, it is a good idea. My take away from that BAPS mtg was that BAPS members were not ready to commit then or likely later to this idea. I was encouraged to move forward with backspace on our own, which is what I brought back to Backspace and is what we did. BAPS has since changed their idea and relationship to space due to a push forward from some members who are worried about not having space. This is in progress. But that change happened AFTER our meeting and after backspace had taken the advice to move on. Being members of both groups at this time is challenging for me, for obvious reasons. Backspace's rush is that we need space to open so that we can make money so that we can pay rent and utilities to the Omni. If we can't do that, my guess is that we will have to disband and then the Omni would lose another member group, which I and I think no one else would like to see happen. Xo On Thursday, October 16, 2014, yar <yardenack(a)gmail.com> wrote:

On Thursday, October 16, 2014, Scott Nanos <scott.nanos(a)gmail.com> wrote:

> Crazy idea but I'm also a little worried that BAPS and commons > Wg don't have the labor power to handle all this commoning

(pragmatically

> speaking, in the form of scheduling and organizing)... > > What if Baps, backspace, and commons wg all teamed up on these common > spaces, granting *x* amount of privileged hours in specific areas for > collectives?

On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 8:18 AM, Sara Larsen <saralarsenyoga(a)gmail.com> wrote:

However, I feel like your suggestion is exactly what I was trying to

move

forward with the BAPS backspace proposal that BAPS recently voted

against

moving forward with!

Is that what happened? I didn't go to every single meeting but my understanding was that BAPS were still open to it but needed more time to talk about it and make up their minds, and Backspace just doesn't want to wait any longer. It seemed (from the outside) like this urgency and time pressure for Backspace was the biggest reason why things didn't work out that way. It's not that I blame you. I can imagine how frustrating it is to try to organize a bunch of skeptical bodyworkers to do their work at Omni, this weird building full of construction debris, contentious politics, dysfunctional processes and so on. Trying to create a wellness collective at Omni at this time is an ambitious goal and I fully recognize and respect all the emotional labor that I've seen you and other Backspace folks put into it, Sara, and I want it to succeed too. I think the new energy and people you guys bring in will be an especially valuable thing for all of us and our communities. I only hope that you can try not to blame the rest of us either for the difficult situation. We've all been working very hard with what we have. I feel like we're reaching at each other through a fog of fear, uncertainty and doubt, trying to make high-stakes decisions that might affect us all years into the future, when we only have a few months or even weeks of experience being in some of our spaces and learning to know and trust all the people. There are so many rooms with different names. It's been 24 hours since your proposal and it's taken us this long just to be sure exactly which rooms you're talking about. There's confusion over what commoning means (the commons wg only started meeting 2 weeks ago), what scheduling will feel like (we're still developing the calendar system), what the rooms will look and feel like, whether people will clean up their messes like they say they will, and any number of hypothetical scarcities and disasters that we have no idea if the future might bring. It's not your fault, it's not anybody else's fault either. I really hope the confusion isn't interpreted as bad faith or a lack of support. We all need to get better at that, of course, but also get better at forgiving each others' mistakes, in the spirit of jubilee. Sorry for the rant, but thanks for listening. <3

-- Let us be together, Let us eat together, Let us be vital together, Let us be radiating truth, radiating the light of life, Never shall we denounce anyone, never entertain negativity. -- The Upanishads

Reply