Accessibility Liaison? - sudo-discuss

Ryan

19 Apr 19 Apr

8:09 p.m.

New subject: [omni-discuss] Accessibility Liaison?

The consistent reaction I've gotten from the community at large is "We don't actually care about people with chemical sensitivities and would actively block any attempts to make the space more accessible to those with respiratory problems who are 'asking too much.'" So, it might be best to be honest with her, rather than pretend like the Omni is actually going to actively work to be accessible. Sorry if this sounds pessimistic, but eh. On Sun, Apr 19, 2015 at 8:06 PM, niki <niki.shelley(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

Hello friends, Someone came in today who was very concerned with our efforts to make our space truly accessible - she was particularly concerned with building improvements and the impact on those with chemical sensitivities. She was also concerned with the sound system at today's event as there were some issues w/it that made it difficult for people to hear. She asked us to not use any materials that will inhibit those with chemical sensitivities from accessing the space and to create communication around our accessibility and needs. She asked to see our plan for how we will do this. We don't have this scoped out currently and I'm wondering if someone would be willing to take on the task of researching this issue and making recommendations to the building Working Group as well as drawing up a basic outline for providing greater accessibility. Can someone volunteer for this? xo N _______________________________________________ discuss mailing list discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss

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Ryan

10:31 p.m.

New subject: [omni-building] [omni-discuss] Accessibility Liaison?

It's not just one person or one situation. And it's not always in an aggressive way. And it's not just an issue of not caring (although I have experienced that). It's an issue of feasibility. I've heard snowball arguments. I know that Material Print Machine tries their hardest to be chemically sensitive but cannot function without some volatile chemicals that can cause problems. If we got some serious ventilation going on, maybe we'd be able to deal with CCL and sudo. But the 3D printers could be an issue. And the few times I've tried to broach this subject, I have hit hard walls. I've also had a lot of support. But I've also heard a lot of people basically say "it'd be too hard to care about such a small minority." I just think that anyone who is going to be dealing with this at the Omni needs to know that not everyone is on board and that they're going to hear some really insensitive stuff. From people you might not expect. My request to have the Omni ban simply *spraying of perfume in the space* left me in tears about ready to leave the space because of reactions like this from many members. I did have a specific issue with one member who I try not to interact with now, who followed me out and proceeded to become aggressive and tell me I can't survive in the real world, but that was handled for the most part. That's not the issue, though. I don't know. My brain isn't really functioning well (brain fog yay) but I think anyone dealing with accessibility at the Omni, especially things people are less versed in than physical (which is bad enough to deal with) should be well aware that while some people may be totally on board, there are some people who are solidly against. On Sun, Apr 19, 2015 at 10:21 PM, Laura Turiano <scylla(a)riseup.net> wrote:

...

I would like to know who said that, Ryan, so that we can have a conversation with them about their attitude. Laura On 4/19/15 8:09 PM, Ryan wrote: The consistent reaction I've gotten from the community at large is "We don't actually care about people with chemical sensitivities and would actively block any attempts to make the space more accessible to those with respiratory problems who are 'asking too much.'" So, it might be best to be honest with her, rather than pretend like the Omni is actually going to actively work to be accessible. Sorry if this sounds pessimistic, but eh. On Sun, Apr 19, 2015 at 8:06 PM, niki <niki.shelley(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Hello friends, Someone came in today who was very concerned with our efforts to make our space truly accessible - she was particularly concerned with building improvements and the impact on those with chemical sensitivities. She was also concerned with the sound system at today's event as there were some issues w/it that made it difficult for people to hear. She asked us to not use any materials that will inhibit those with chemical sensitivities from accessing the space and to create communication around our accessibility and needs. She asked to see our plan for how we will do this. We don't have this scoped out currently and I'm wondering if someone would be willing to take on the task of researching this issue and making recommendations to the building Working Group as well as drawing up a basic outline for providing greater accessibility. Can someone volunteer for this? xo N _______________________________________________ discuss mailing list discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss

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Patrik D'haeseleer

11:27 a.m.

New subject: [omni-discuss] [omni-building] Accessibility Liaison?

I think there is room for some compromise here. I don't think it is feasible to make the Omni a completely chemical-free zone, and we will likely always need to have a different level of expected chemical use for CCL, Sudo, MPM and Rise Above. But we may be able to ban the use of incense and spraying perfume in the rest of the building, adopt a list of recommended cleaning materials, switch out all the paints and dry erase markers to low-VOC ones, and prioritize improving ventilation in the rooms that do use chemicals. I know in the past, I've occasionally walked over to Sudo to tell them to let us know if some of the chemicals we were using were bothering anyone. But we've also had a number of people who've been having a great time extracting essential oils from plants, and we've taught lotion and soap making classes in which essential oils were used... Patrik On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 10:52 AM, niki <niki.shelley(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

Ok. I will write her back and tell her that because not every person who enters the doors of the Omni is able to occupy a place of absolutely pure ideological perfection, we will not be addressing these issues in any meaningful way. N On Sun, Apr 19, 2015 at 10:31 PM, Ryan <yandoryn(a)gmail.com> wrote:

It's not just one person or one situation. And it's not always in an aggressive way. And it's not just an issue of not caring (although I have experienced that). It's an issue of feasibility. I've heard snowball arguments. I know that Material Print Machine tries their hardest to be chemically sensitive but cannot function without some volatile chemicals that can cause problems. If we got some serious ventilation going on, maybe we'd be able to deal with CCL and sudo. But the 3D printers could be an issue. And the few times I've tried to broach this subject, I have hit hard walls. I've also had a lot of support. But I've also heard a lot of people basically say "it'd be too hard to care about such a small minority." I just think that anyone who is going to be dealing with this at the Omni needs to know that not everyone is on board and that they're going to hear some really insensitive stuff. From people you might not expect. My request to have the Omni ban simply *spraying of perfume in the space* left me in tears about ready to leave the space because of reactions like this from many members. I did have a specific issue with one member who I try not to interact with now, who followed me out and proceeded to become aggressive and tell me I can't survive in the real world, but that was handled for the most part. That's not the issue, though. I don't know. My brain isn't really functioning well (brain fog yay) but I think anyone dealing with accessibility at the Omni, especially things people are less versed in than physical (which is bad enough to deal with) should be well aware that while some people may be totally on board, there are some people who are solidly against. On Sun, Apr 19, 2015 at 10:21 PM, Laura Turiano <scylla(a)riseup.net> wrote:

I would like to know who said that, Ryan, so that we can have a conversation with them about their attitude. Laura On 4/19/15 8:09 PM, Ryan wrote: The consistent reaction I've gotten from the community at large is "We don't actually care about people with chemical sensitivities and would actively block any attempts to make the space more accessible to those with respiratory problems who are 'asking too much.'" So, it might be best to be honest with her, rather than pretend like the Omni is actually going to actively work to be accessible. Sorry if this sounds pessimistic, but eh. On Sun, Apr 19, 2015 at 8:06 PM, niki <niki.shelley(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Hello friends, Someone came in today who was very concerned with our efforts to make our space truly accessible - she was particularly concerned with building improvements and the impact on those with chemical sensitivities. She was also concerned with the sound system at today's event as there were some issues w/it that made it difficult for people to hear. She asked us to not use any materials that will inhibit those with chemical sensitivities from accessing the space and to create communication around our accessibility and needs. She asked to see our plan for how we will do this. We don't have this scoped out currently and I'm wondering if someone would be willing to take on the task of researching this issue and making recommendations to the building Working Group as well as drawing up a basic outline for providing greater accessibility. Can someone volunteer for this? xo N _______________________________________________ discuss mailing list discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss

_______________________________________________ building mailing listbuilding@lists.omnicommons.orghttps://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/building

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Nicholas Oakley

12:45 p.m.

New subject: [omni-building] Accessibility Liaison?

Perhaps my reply was unseen ? There are many ways & dimensions for accessibility issues.All of our concerns,ideas are important and valid .However there are already certain standards that can be applied intermediately as the Omni community continues to fine tune and congeal its protocol. On 4/21/15, Patrik D'haeseleer <patrikd(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

Just reminding people what the original request was about, which was dealing primarily with the use of certain* building materials*: On Sun, Apr 19, 2015 at 8:06 PM, niki <niki.shelley(a)gmail.com> wrote:

she was particularly concerned with building improvements and the impact on those with chemical sensitivities. [...] She asked us to not use any materials that will inhibit those with chemical sensitivities from accessing the space and to create communication around our accessibility and needs.

I do think we should use materials that are low in volatile organic compounds (VOCs): - Paint: low-VOC paint is available, and doesn't cost all that much more. Needless to say, also much more pleasant for the painters to work with... - Particle board has a known issue with outgassing formaldehyde throughout its lifespan. Sealing it can drastically slow that down. I bet there are low-formaldehyde options available as well, but haven't had time to look into this yet. Looks like there's some formaldehyde-free plywood at least - Drywall / sheetrock: looks like there was a bit of a scare with Chinese sheetrock, and with Chinese materials making it into US-made sheetrock, but that may have been mostly an East Coast problem: http://www.propublica.org/article/american-made-drywall-emerges-as-potentia… http://debralynndadd.com/q-a/how-safe-is-sheetrock/ "I called up Home Depot – where we had just bought drywall yesterday, and the manager checked with his supplier. *All the California Home Depots use natural gypsum mined in Mexico, and their drywall is Greenguard certified. He said he thought it was the East Coast that used the synthetic stuff*." This is all just based on 15 minutes of googling - if someone else has more time to investigate, that would be greatly appreciated! Patrik

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niki

2:32 p.m.

New subject: [omni-discuss] [omni-building] Accessibility Liaison?

Thanks, Ryan. I understand your own fatigue / frustrations around accessibility issues and I have to say, I'm grateful to you for having been willing to illuminate of problems that, to be completely honest, many of us simply hadn't been thinking about. I know it's difficult to have to confront that kind of ignorance from people who purport to be in solidarity with people who struggle with ableism. I don't know who the person is that you think would be willing to help us take this on (the person I spoke with on Sunday was very clear that they were not willing / able to help us). And Nick - let us know when you have resolved things w/Sudo if you're still interested in pursuing this at that time. N On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 1:18 PM, Ryan <yandoryn(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

niki, I understand your exasperation All I'm trying to say is that someone should be clear to her that there are quite a few people at the Omni who may be violently opposed to these types of accessibility requests, even though they seem completely reasonable because "The community is not some amorphous / boundless resource *nor* is it some perfect ideological object." I know I felt personally attacked and invalidated (and still do over a lot of the accessibility stuff) when bringing up a very similar topic and it might be useful to warn her that there's a very good and real chance people might be jerks to her about a very sensitive subject. Or that her proposals might get ignored/unheeded because the priorities of the space are elsewhere. I'm not saying it well because I am tired and personally hurt by a lot of the accessibility stuff. "I think it's reasonable to say that we haven't found someone who has the time / energy to take this on right now and that people who have concerns around these issues should perhaps wait to engage with us until we're in a more solid place. " This is exactly what the Omni should say wrt a lot of accessibility stuff in my opinion, and not what's been happening. Which is a major reason there's a lot of hurt. However, I do think that we *have* found someone who can take this on or at least help and see if we *can*. She should just uh, be warned that not everyone's on board. On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 12:45 PM, Nicholas Oakley <nickoakley510(a)gmail.com

wrote:

Perhaps my reply was unseen ? There are many ways & dimensions for accessibility issues.All of our concerns,ideas are important and valid .However there are already certain standards that can be applied intermediately as the Omni community continues to fine tune and congeal its protocol. On 4/21/15, Patrik D'haeseleer <patrikd(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Just reminding people what the original request was about, which was dealing primarily with the use of certain* building materials*: On Sun, Apr 19, 2015 at 8:06 PM, niki <niki.shelley(a)gmail.com> wrote: > she was particularly concerned with building improvements and the

impact

on those with chemical sensitivities. [...] She asked us to not use any materials that will inhibit those with chemical sensitivities from accessing the space and to create communication around our accessibility and needs.

I do think we should use materials that are low in volatile organic compounds (VOCs): - Paint: low-VOC paint is available, and doesn't cost all that much

more.

Needless to say, also much more pleasant for the painters to work

with...

- Particle board has a known issue with outgassing formaldehyde

throughout

its lifespan. Sealing it can drastically slow that down. I bet there are low-formaldehyde options available as well, but haven't had time to look into this yet. Looks like there's some formaldehyde-free plywood at

least

- Drywall / sheetrock: looks like there was a bit of a scare with

Chinese

sheetrock, and with Chinese materials making it into US-made sheetrock,

but

that may have been mostly an East Coast problem:

http://www.propublica.org/article/american-made-drywall-emerges-as-potentia…

http://debralynndadd.com/q-a/how-safe-is-sheetrock/ "I called up Home Depot – where we had just bought drywall yesterday,

and

the manager checked with his supplier. *All the California Home Depots

use

natural gypsum mined in Mexico, and their drywall is Greenguard

certified.

He said he thought it was the East Coast that used the synthetic

stuff*."

This is all just based on 15 minutes of googling - if someone else has

more

time to investigate, that would be greatly appreciated! Patrik

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