is this discussion appropriate to this list? would be a great discussion for http://oaklandwiki.org/What_should_we_do_about_gentrification%3F and/or http://oaklandwiki.org/gentrification On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 4:29 PM, Hol Gaskill <hol(a)gaskill.com> wrote:

Yeah some of the non rent downsides of gentrification are worth enumerating because they are way more in our control. Here is the list I have experienced: Reduced neighborhood tolerance for semi-legitamate venues that have concerts and parties Increased enforcement of BS code violations like, "no working on your car in the street" Now you go, those are the only 2 I can think of. On Tuesday, May 13, 2014, Tony Barreca <tony.barreca(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Not sure what your angle on property rights is, but I will add that NIMBYism is about asserting control over other people's property, using imbalances and inefficiencies in the municipal zoning system. On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 7:06 PM, Craig Rouskey <craigrouskey(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:

NIMBY is about controlling development adjacent to your own property/residence/AO. i don't think nimbyism is the logical extreme of property rights but rather a side channel to overpower the property rights of others by citing damages that would be caused by future development like taller buildings with more units. there's also the flavor of keeping a point source of blight, pollution, gentrification, or monoculture out of a community that is precipitated by the overall pushback of a community against a perceived threat, be it obstruction of the view from your deck or fears that people of a drastically different soceoeconomic status (there are examples in both directions) will move in and alter the character of the community. i'm not really staking out pro or anti nimby or pro or anti property rights positions here, just saying they're not the same axis. they run parallel for a short distance but wind up pushing in opposite directions when it comes to pulling permits and actually building. on May 14, 2014, craigrouskey(a)gmail.com wrote: Have a great day! Craig >>On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 12:13 PM, Jehan Tremback <jehan.tremback(a)gmail.com> wrote:>>Not sure what your angle on property rights is, but I will add that NIMBYism is about>asserting control over other people's property, using imbalances and inefficiencies>in the municipal zoning system. >>On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 7:06 PM, Craig Rouskey <craigrouskey(a)gmail.com> wrote:>>Gentrification. It makes me think of that bench on Adeline that says "Do something>for Oakland or Leave." To me, doing something for the community - i.e. using our privilege to educate and>grow community across class, race and other social lines - acts as a counterbalance>to the gross non-aware/hyper-consumerist gentrification that we see disintegrating>communities throughout the bay. I could continue to ramble on (especially about people who tout "property rights">then blame SF residents for their property-protective NIMBY policies as a way to>validate gentrification), but I won't. Not here. Instead, I'll suggest that we all>acknowledge that we live in a constantly growing and changing place whose face changes>simply by the amount of money thrown at it...really, it's as bad as Liberace. We>have these internal conversations and the truth is, it's not us. We are not driving>gentrification. We are all doing what we have to do to stay in the bay area. Some>of us try to make the communities we exist in better, some of us try to suck the>life out of them. That is all. Craig To quote Janis Joplin "It's all the same fucking day, man." Increased enforcement of BS code violations like, "no working on your car in the street" Now you go, those are the only 2 I can think of. >On Tuesday, May 13, 2014, Tony Barreca <tony.barreca(a)gmail.com> wrote:>>With all respect, Oren, limiting a discussion of gentrification to rent levels strikes>me as a bit reductionist. It a gnarly, complex problem, seems to me, and rather>the antithesis of taking the "...thread to a more encompassing awareness..." I.e.,>seems less encompassing, and considerably so.>Whether or not it's appropriate for this list I'll leave for others to decide, but>I do have $0.02 to contribute on that point: I've seen lots of other discussions>over the past 2 years on this that were at least as inappropriate, if not more so.>>>>On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 4:35 PM, Marina Kukso <marina.kukso(a)gmail.com> wrote:>>is this discussion appropriate to this list? >>would be a great discussion for http://oaklandwiki.org/What_should_we_do_about_gentrification%3F and/or http://oaklandwiki.org/gentrification >>On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 4:29 PM, Hol Gaskill <hol(a)gaskill.com> wrote:>>i think talking about stemming price inflation altogether inevitably redirects to>monetary policy>> couldn't find consistent info on "anti-fnord". why don't you fill us in?>> on May 13, 2014, Sonja Trauss <sonja.trauss(a)gmail.com> wrote:> >Make sure Oakland builds fast enough to absorb new arrivals. >>On Tuesday, May 13,>2014, Oren Beck <orenbeck(a)gmail.com> wrote:>>There's a set of presumptions that can inherently defy our best efforts>at redirection>even when we can offer concrete factual refutations. >>> I unhesitatingly use the phrase "Breaking Set&Setting" as a most apt one, Call it>an>"Anti-Fnord! so to speak... Do look up the ancestry of the terms if they're not>old>friends:)> >> Summary- We've a set and setting that demands inflation of rents as if it were desirable,>or>even mandatory. the end result is inevitable yet NOT mandatory. Can we discuss>strategies>to fix the Rent Problem? >> > >> >>Oren Beck>>816.632.3695>>>>>>> >>_______________________________________________>sudo-discuss mailing list>sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss>> _______________________________________________> sudo-discuss mailing list>sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss >_______________________________________________> sudo-discuss mailing list>sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss>>>>-- >Tony Barreca>LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/tonybarreca> Skype: tonybarreca>Twitter: tbarreca> Mobile: (510) 710-5864 >_______________________________________________> sudo-discuss mailing list>sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss>>>-- Craig Rouskey, MScMedical Microbiologist and Immunologist(510) 407-6775craigrouskey(a)gmail.com >_______________________________________________> sudo-discuss mailing list>sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss> >>>_______________________________________________>sudo-discuss mailing list>sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss