Hey gang, I'm late to the party, and it seems like this generated a lot of thoughtful repsonses, but I just wanted to respond to this: Eddan, on 2013-02-28 17:07, wrote: Skills which can be used to violate the law: driving ( allows you to speed / make illegal turns, etc ) parallel parking ( allows you to park in front of e.g. a fire hydrant ) drawing ( graffiti / destruction of property ) walking ( crossing the road at a non-intersection / jaywalking) critical thinking ( unlimited potential for violating the law! ) best, -- Paul Ivanov http://pirsquared.org | GPG/PGP key id: 0x0F3E28F7

Yo's- Driving also allows you to: Drive drunk & stoned, run over random people on the street, and escape after robbing banks, burgling houses, kidnapping kids, and committing other random mayhem for profit or pleasure. Learning how to read & write is especially dangerous because that enables you to read plans for bombs and write bomb threat notes & terrorist manifestos. Getting an MBA enables you to join an unsuspecting corporation (like Goldman Sachs), rise to the top, and rob them for gazillions of investors' dollars while simultaneously holding the US government hostage for gazillions more in taxpayers' dollars, and all this at zero risk of going to prison. If we were looking to start a crime wave with real consequences, we would be offering MBAs. -G. ===== On 13-03-04-Mon 9:51 AM, Paul Ivanov wrote:

Yo's- This just in: "DARPA wants to make [voice recognition/transcription] systems so accurate, you’ll be able to easily record, transcribe and recall all the conversations you ever have. ... Imagine living in a world where every errant utterance you make is preserved forever. ... DARPA [awarded U.Texas comp sci researcher Matt Lease]... $300,000... over two years to study the new project, called “Blending Crowdsourcing with Automation for Fast, Cheap, and Accurate Analysis of Spontaneous Speech.”" "The idea is that business meetings or even conversations with your friends and family could be stored in archives and easily searched. The stored recordings could be held in servers, owned either by individuals or their employers. ... The answer, Lease says, is in widespread use of recording technologies like smartphones, cameras and audio recorders... [A] memorandum from the Congressional Research Service described [an earlier DARPA project of this type known as] EARS, as focusing on speech picked up from broadcasts and telephone conversations, “as well as extract clues about the identity of speakers” for “the military, intelligence and law enforcement communities.”" http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2013/03/darpa-speech/ (Yes, "real geeks don't read Wired," but nonetheless its news pages are useful for keeping a finger on the pulse of Big Brother and his corporate Brethren.) In short: DARPA is researching the means by which every conversation you have, in-person, whether at work or with family or friends, gets picked up by the mic in your smartphone or other portable device, and stored on a server, where DARPA's algorithms and human editors turn all of it into fast-searchable text, that could be used by your employer, the military, law enforcement, and intel agencies. Presumably the credit bureaus, insurance companies, and financial institutions will want "in" on the data as well. Now connect that with this, about cell-site tracking and call detail records: "The government maintained [that] Americans have no expectation of privacy of such cell-site records [call detail records or CDR] because they are in the possession of a third party — the mobile phone companies." http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/03/gps-drug-dealer-retrial/ The key point is that the gov's current position is that data stored on a third party's servers have "no expectation of privacy." What begins with CDR will eventually include voicemail messages stored on the mobile phone companies' servers, and then eventually all of your live in-person conversations that are stored "in the cloud." "Anything you say can and will be used against you..." Mark my words. Meanwhile people keep using gmail and Google Voice, and smartphones from which they can't remove the batteries. Because nothing is more important than "convenience," right? As a character in a sci-fi piece I wrote in the mid-1980s said, "Why put a person in prison, when you can put prison in the person instead?" -G.

People have rendered surveillance cameras useless with very bright IR LEDs in their fields of view. Could something similar be done for sound recording devices? On Mar 5, 2013 6:17 AM, "Anon195714" <anon195714(a)sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Wouldn't it need to be non-commercially available music, so they couldn't just find the audio data of the track, invert its wave, and cancel it out of the recording? CACOPHONY FOR THE REVOLUTION! mediumreality.com On Mar 5, 2013 10:23 AM, "Steve Berl" <steveberl(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Re. Daniel Finlay re. resonant frequency of the diaphragm of the mic: Sounds good to me, and since the mics in question are likely to be tiny condenser mics with tiny diaphragms, the frequency needed would be rather high, possibly above audible range (there's an equation for calculating this). Higher frequencies are more directional than lower frequencies, meaning that they can be "aimed." It might be possible to use resonance to just outright destroy the mics as well. (Think of an opera singer singing a note that shatters a wine glass.) IMHO fair game, self-defense. Consider a wearable device that includes a discreet "audio cannon" that emits a chirp of a frequency above audible range, or perhaps a sweep of frequencies, loudly enough for the resonance to break the diaphragm of any non-consensual microphone within let's say six feet in front of you and a radius of a few feet around the center of where the device is aimed. People could also use this to destroy any concealed mics in their own devices, for example the hidden mics in laptops. ("If I want to record audio on my laptop I can plug in an external mic, and unplug it when I'm done, thank you very much! ;-)" This is basically just electronics, should be fairly easy to design & build. Sine wave oscillator, amplifier, tiny audio transducer. Making it wearable and stylish will take more work, and making it catchy enough to go viral will be interesting. TV-B-Gone, anyone?;-) -G. ===== On 13-03-05-Tue 11:19 AM, Daniel Finlay wrote:

What if everyone carried a device that captured what they were saying and replayed it, layered along with other recordings of their own voice? Or we could hold all of our meetings without devices, in the fields and mountains, with birdsong our walls and the sky as our roof. On Mar 5, 2013 11:22 AM, "Matthew D. Howell" <matthewdhowell(a)gmail.com> wrote:

meetings in underwater bubble domes! only heads sticking above the artificial waterline - now that's security! "fishsong our walls"... Mar 5, 2013 01:51:46 PM, anon195714(a)sbcglobal.net wrote: Re. Rachel, "Or we could hold all of our meetings without devices, in the fields and mountains, with birdsong our walls and the sky as our roof."  YES.  Good reminder and well-said.  There are times and places where it's liberating to not have any devices along.  For example when going for a swim.  -G. ===== On 13-03-05-Tue 11:34 AM, rachel lyra hospodar wrote: What if everyone carried a device that captured what they were saying and replayed it, layered along with other recordings of their own voice? Or we could hold all of our meetings without devices, in the fields and mountains, with birdsong our walls and the sky as our roof. On Mar 5, 2013 11:22 AM, "Matthew D. Howell" matthewdhowell(a)gmail.com wrote: @Rachel The state of the technology for recognizing and separating patterns in audio is advanced enough to overcome that sort of thing. Every person's voice has a distinct signature that can be recognized. I would venture a guess that some kind of encrypted digital signal transmission would be the best way to keep any sonic communication private in the most extreme of situations. (most interested party with the best technology at their disposal) – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – >8 /V\ /-\ + +  |–| ø \/\/ ∂ £ £; –––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––; Matthew D. Howell misterinterrupt, tHe M4d swiTcH, the RuinMechanic cell: (617) 755-1481 –––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––; On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 11:16 AM, rachel lyra hospodar rachelyra(a)gmail.com wrote: > Wouldn't it need to be non-commercially available music, so they couldn't > just find the audio data of the track, invert its wave, and cancel it out of > the recording? > CACOPHONY FOR THE REVOLUTION! > mediumreality.com > On Mar 5, 2013 10:23 AM, "Steve Berl" steveberl(a)gmail.com wrote: > >> You could carry a boombox around playing loud music where ever you go. >> Perhaps this would be the end of earbuds. :-) > >> On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 10:20 AM, Anthony Di Franco di.franco(a)gmail.com >> wrote: >> >>> People have rendered surveillance cameras useless with very bright IR >>> LEDs in their fields of view. >>> Could something similar be done for sound recording devices? >> >>> On Mar 5, 2013 6:17 AM, "Anon195714" anon195714(a)sbcglobal.net wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Yo's- >>> >>>> Something I forgot to add re. DARPA's desire for universal recording of >>>> face-to-face conversations. >>> >>>> What's the ideal device for doing all that recording? >>> >>>> How'bout something you wear?  How'bout something that "everyone" wears?, >>>> or even a significant fraction of "everyone"? >>> >>>> Like maybe Google Glasses. >>> >>>> Always on, camera and mic always "connected" to "the cloud."  Orwell's >>>> telescreen gone mobile. >>> >>>> Everyone who wears them will become, in effect, _unpaid surveillance >>>> drones_ watching their family and friends, not from up in the sky, but >>>> from up close where every word can be heard. >>> >>>> Some will say "oh, there's no stopping technology." People said that >>>> about the atomic bomb and the hydrogen bomb.  But public outcry led >>>> first to treaties and then to progressive degrees of nuclear >>>> disarmament.  We haven't used that technology since it was first used in >>>> WW2. >>> >>>> We can stop pernicious tech if we choose.  We can refuse, we can >>>> withdraw consent, we do not have to press the Buy button. >>> >>>> Technology should liberate and empower people.  "Conveniences with a few >>>> strings attached" are not liberation, they're puppet-strings. >>> >>>> It's all about control: technology that you can control, vs. technology >>>> that can control you. >>> >>>> -G. >>> >>> >>>> ===== >>> >>> >>>> On 13-03-05-Tue 1:50 AM, Anon195714 wrote: >>>> >>>> > Yo's- >>>> >>>> > This just in: >>>> >>>> > "DARPA wants to make [voice recognition/transcription] systems so >>>> > accurate, you’ll be able to easily record, transcribe and recall all >>>> > the >>>> > conversations you ever have. ... Imagine living in a world where every >>>> > errant utterance you make is preserved forever. ... DARPA [awarded >>>> > U.Texas comp sci researcher Matt Lease]... $300,000... over two years >>>> > to >>>> > study the new project, called “Blending Crowdsourcing with Automation >>>> > for Fast, Cheap, and Accurate Analysis of Spontaneous Speech.”" >>>> >>>> > "The idea is that business meetings or even conversations with your >>>> > friends and family could be stored in archives and easily searched. >>>> > The >>>> > stored recordings could be held in servers, owned either by >>>> > individuals >>>> > or their employers. ... The answer, Lease says, is in widespread use >>>> > of >>>> > recording technologies like smartphones, cameras and audio >>>> > recorders... >>>> > [A] memorandum from the Congressional Research Service described [an >>>> > earlier DARPA project of this type known as] EARS, as focusing on >>>> > speech >>>> > picked up from broadcasts and telephone conversations, “as well as >>>> > extract clues about the identity of speakers” for “the military, >>>> > intelligence and law enforcement communities.”" >>>> >>>> > http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2013/03/darpa-speech/ (Yes, "real >>>> > geeks >>>> > don't read Wired," but nonetheless its news pages are useful for >>>> > keeping >>>> > a finger on the pulse of Big Brother and his corporate Brethren.) >>>> >>>> > In short: >>>> >>>> > DARPA is researching the means by which every conversation you have, >>>> > in-person, whether at work or with family or friends, gets picked up >>>> > by >>>> > the mic in your smartphone or other portable device, and stored on a >>>> > server, where DARPA's algorithms and human editors turn all of it into >>>> > fast-searchable text, that could be used by your employer, the >>>> > military, >>>> > law enforcement, and intel agencies. Presumably the credit bureaus, >>>> > insurance companies, and financial institutions will want "in" on the >>>> > data as well. >>>> >>>> > Now connect that with this, about cell-site tracking and call detail >>>> > records: >>>> >>>> > "The government maintained [that] Americans have no expectation of >>>> > privacy of such cell-site records [call detail records or CDR] because >>>> > they are in the possession of a third party — the mobile phone >>>> > companies." >>>> >>>> > http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/03/gps-drug-dealer-retrial/ >>>> >>>> > The key point is that the gov's current position is that data stored >>>> > on >>>> > a third party's servers have "no expectation of privacy." What begins >>>> > with CDR will eventually include voicemail messages stored on the >>>> > mobile >>>> > phone companies' servers, and then eventually all of your live >>>> > in-person >>>> > conversations that are stored "in the cloud." >>>> >>>> > "Anything you say can and will be used against you..." Mark my words. >>>> >>>> > Meanwhile people keep using gmail and Google Voice, and smartphones >>>> > from >>>> > which they can't remove the batteries. Because nothing is more >>>> > important >>>> > than "convenience," right? >>>> >>>> > As a character in a sci-fi piece I wrote in the mid-1980s said, "Why >>>> > put >>>> > a person in prison, when you can put prison in the person instead?" >>>> >>>> > -G. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> > sudo-discuss mailing list >>>> > sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >>>> > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>> sudo-discuss mailing list >>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >>>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> sudo-discuss mailing list >>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss >> > > > >> -- >> -steve >> _______________________________________________ >> sudo-discuss mailing list >> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss > > _______________________________________________ > sudo-discuss mailing list > sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss >_______________________________________________ >sudo-discuss mailing list >sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss

This conversation reminds me of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1eUIK9CihA -steve On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 2:41 PM, Anon195714 <anon195714(a)sbcglobal.net> wrote: -- -steve

Can someone please PM me the link to open the sudoroom door? i'm inside the building, just need to get inside the room. Thanks! Hol

I could be totally wrong on this, but I believe locksmiths are required to be bonded, fingerprinted and licensed. On Feb 28, 2013, at 4:59 PM, rusty lindgren wrote:

J.D. - where were you thinking of publishing this letter? I think it would make for a stronger and more thoughtful response if there was a collective voice signing on to it either as a group or listed as individuals. With the help of the collective editorial prowess of the Sudo list, do you think you would be ready to publish it before tomorrow morning? On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 5:09 PM, Eddan <eddan(a)clear.net> wrote:

J.D. - do you think there should be an additional statement from Sudo Room? Before we proceed any further - does anyone have objections to writing such a letter or signing on to it? What the statement says is another matter for which Sudo member objections should also feel empowered to raise. Comments can be made anonymously on the etherpad or on IRC, if someone isn't comfortable doing it on the list. sent from eddan.com On Feb 28, 2013, at 5:15 PM, "J.D. Zamfirescu" <zamfire(a)gmail.com> wrote:

This might be a good time to point out that we share the building with a private security training company, where they teach all sorts of stuff. sent from eddan.com On Feb 28, 2013, at 5:59 PM, "J.D. Zamfirescu" <zamfire(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Seems to me like sticking to correcting the misuse of the word unconscionable can be respectful to the police chief and informative about the difference between skills and criminal intent. If Sudo Room does a separate statement, it should follow on Workshop Weekend's letter and support its posture and position. There'll be TV cameras there this weekend - we can feel pretty confident about that. It would be very useful to share a common understanding in order not to have our purpose misrepresented. sent from eddan.com On Feb 28, 2013, at 6:07 PM, Michael Scroggins <michaeljscroggins(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Michael, you're not missing anything -- we haven't finished drafting the workshop weekend statement yet. :) On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 6:43 PM, Michael Scroggins < michaeljscroggins(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:

This whole situation is hilariously dumb and is the kind of thing of why oakland is going down the tubes Instead of the thanks obama meme, we should start the "thanks jean quan" meme On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 8:05 PM, Daniel Finlay &lt;namelessdan(a)gmail.com&gt;wrote;wrote:

In my opinion, the letter is overly apologetic. Neither Workshop Weekend nor SudoRoom has done anything that needs to be apologized for. Apologizing for the way the workshop was advertised implies there is something wrong with the holding a public lock picking workshop, which there is not. I wouldn't cede the rhetorical high ground on this point. I love the TOOL statement. I think it strikes exactly the right note. If there is to be a SudoRoom statement (does there need to be?) I think it should be in line with the TOOL statement. Michael J.D. Zamfirescu wrote:

The National Review as well: http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/342003/oakland-mayor-promotes-lock-pic… This sort of story is ideal for playing around with, which is how things go. And it is kind of a dream story for an editor. I agree with suspending the sale of the tools to cut the education/commerce link, and with the vast majority of the letter. My concern is this sentence: "We recognize now that it was insensitive to have the workshop listed and broadcast in the way that it was, and we regret doing so." The sentence implicitly draws a difference of kind between the lock picking class and the other Workshop Weekend classes. Doing so invites the question: What is the difference that makes broadcasting this workshop (in the way it was) regrettable? In an environment where the mayor, the chief of police and the media have all given the same answer - the class breeds criminals - allowing that question is regrettable. The TOOL statement doesn't allow the question to be considered, which is why I like it. I feel the SudoRoom statement shouldn't either and should emphasis that all Sudo classes are offered in the spirit of curiosity, which is a public good. Michael Eddan wrote:

I agree with Michael, the way in which it was promoted was fine. I think we should stop apologizing to the people who are acting completely in bad faith, and certainly, I don't want to get lumped in with everyone else when they apologize. This is drowning out my opinion the same way these ass-wipes are drowning out our opinion in the media. SudoRoom could easily submit 3 or 4 different responses, or anonymously represent responses in one letter, but it shouldn't carry a single tone, and especially shouldn't make us look like we want to lay down and die every time "crime-watch" people post a stupid comment on a board somewhere. Side Note: where do these people get their money? Could it not be from hackers who invent all the shit that drives a secondary economy in the Bay Area for them to have sit down jobs where they can post on local media blogs all day about how their world isn't safe enough from all the people in Oakland, who don't ride the backs of hackers and then take them to the mat whenever possible. I'm sure they jumped on facebook the minute they were done with that news site tho. The kicker is that they even talked about how it's someone's whole life force to unlock things for them when they break. Why would THEY need to know how to do something like that, when someone will just come by and do it for them? Fuck that. Now, take a trip over to yelp, and read all of the comments about the sketchy locksmiths in the Bay Area... Same people complaining about how the "locksmith bot" wasn't programmed correctly, because they didn't get what they wanted. Fuck that too. The loudest voices on the interwebs are the stupidest... at least in the hacker community, you don't get judged for being loud, you get judged on your work, and so it stands to reason that maybe, in self preservation of mind and spirit I still submit that we STOP laying down for people who don't care about us, so we respect ourselves in the end. -Rusty On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 11:27 PM, Anca Mosoiu &lt;anca(a)techliminal.com&gt; wrote: -- Cheers, Rusty Lindgren **

Not sure how to append or collate this with Daniel's section, but included below is a draft of suggested comments I tried piecing together. I think that if we are to have a statement, that we should merge our various contributions to represent one voice. I'm not sure what platform is best to do this kind of thing on, but have had some positive experience with http://www.co-ment.com/. sent from eddan.com --- To our community – It is in good conscience that we, the members of Sudo Room, host the Lock-Picking session at the Workshop Weekend taking place at 2141 Broadway [and Tech Liminal] today. As even a quick glance at the rest of the program would make clear, we are a diverse community of technologists, artists, and activists joined together by the ambition of figuring things out for ourselves and teaching other people how to do it. A further step back would reveal a context of free and open to the public educational opportunities covering everything from sewing recycled fabric into sustainable clothing; making vanilla extract to experiment with new flavors of ice cream; creating a transparent and democratic corporate governance; and indeed yes – taking locks apart and reverse engineering software. Regarding the option of calling a locksmith, an Oakland resident locked out of their house or car should be advised to read through the peer review websites carefully for reputable services before calling their number. It is our general belief that public safety is better served when the skills necessary to be hired as a locksmith, for example, are taught in classrooms rather than by picking it up in the actual commission of crimes. We share in our city’s mourning of the death of Kiante Campbell at the Art Murmur last month. Collectively and as individuals, we are also aware of and concerned about the alarming levels of crime in our neighborhoods. It is in fact those concerns that have made for the greatest challenges in offering an openly accessible entrance to our building. Being a horizontally-governed organization, the compromised option of only several people having the keys is problematic. We are now experimenting in our own space with ways that can increase security while preserving the privacy of the general public. We intend to share our results publicly on our website and wiki, as with all of our other projects, so that public safety in Oakland can be more effectively enforced. We regret that Mayor Quan stepped back from her support of the event, though we appreciate her support for our innovative programs that are bringing about an emergent start-up technology culture in downtown Oakland. We can certainly sympathize with the overwhelming task of responsibly editing a large amount of information such as what is in the Mayors’ newsletter. We intend for this unfortunate series of misunderstandings to be yet another incentive for us to work on some of the projects we’ve already started – those aimed towards more efficiently sorting through large volumes of information to allow for making editorial judgment calls more fairly. We would like to take this unsolicited opportunity to make our intentions clear with Police Chief Jordan and Mayor Quan. We have among us people who can contribute a great deal to solving our law enforcement technology problems and addressing the cyber-security concerns of critical infrastructure such as the Port of Oakland. We hope to get a chance to work together with our city’s leaders in bringing cutting-edge capacity building to the people of Oakland with sustainable and equitable economic structures. We are trying to be very conscientious about it – we welcome you to drop by one of our many events or visit our website for information about our initiatives. On Sat, Mar 2, 2013 at 12:51 PM, Daniel Finlay &lt;namelessdan(a)gmail.com&gt;wrote;wrote:

of course. please help correct and improve. also, was on the fence about using a bunch of links - wondering what others think. On Sat, Mar 2, 2013 at 3:22 PM, rusty lindgren &lt;rustylindgren(a)gmail.com&gt;wrote;wrote:

I think the statement is excellent, and I love how Eddan very cleverly sets the lock picking class in the context of SudoRoom's own entrance issues. Michael rusty lindgren wrote:

+1 to Michael Neither Weekend Workshop nor the Mayor did anything that needed to be appologized for. You can buy pick sets at numorus places online. On Mar 1, 2013 11:15 AM, "J.D. Zamfirescu" &lt;zamfire(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:

Does anyone have info on how locksmiths are trained and licensed? Also, I know there are examples of everyday objects that can be used to pick some locks. The Cap'N Crunch whistle is the most famous, as far as I'm aware. The ability to unlock it with the simple use of a pencap would be information I'd want to have available to me before purchasing a bike lock. Does anyone have other useful examples? sent from eddan.com On Feb 28, 2013, at 6:46 PM, Anca | Tech Liminal &lt;anca(a)techliminal.com&gt; wrote:

Yo Eddan - Famous example for you: A computer network eng. back east found that the housings of Diebold electronic voting machines were "secured" with locks that were identical to, and used the same keys as, cheap filing cabinets and hotel minibars. Which he demonstrated on YouTube and then got interviewed on TV. The guy is about my age which means he was almost certainly also naughty phone phreak back in the day and learned how to pick locks as part of the phone phreak culture (we all learned how to pick locks in high school). So there are three lessons there: One, crappy locks = illusory security, two, naughty hackers who know how to pick locks = good for security, and three, don't trust electronic voting machines. I saw the video. Those locks were disc tumbler locks (notoriously easy pickin' to start with), with two or at most three tumblers (just downright pathetic). I could pick one of those with two paper clips in about ten seconds. I'm sure the guy who did the demo could too. -G. ====== On 13-02-28-Thu 6:54 PM, Eddan Katz wrote:

we've called it: http://oaklandwiki.org/Lockpickgate On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 5:14 PM, Eddan &lt;eddan(a)clear.net&gt; wrote:

As a sidenote, I have been saved from significant expense and from delays that would have made me a bad host to an honored guest by having my lock picked by an amateur locksmith friend (who is on this list) on multiple occasions, and I would be happy to say so publicly. On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 5:09 PM, Eddan &lt;eddan(a)clear.net&gt; wrote:

Wooster, Learning and being a legal locksmith are two totally different things(although plenty of criminal break-ins involve people who are professionals in a field - i.e. hacking schools). You can buy a video course here from people that service the government et all: http://www.locksmithvideoschool.com/testimonials.html All this is doing is making it cheap for other people. -Rusty On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 5:01 PM, &lt;thadwooster(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: -- Cheers, Rusty Lindgren **