12 Jan
2015
12 Jan
'15
4:11 p.m.
On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 3:33 PM, Eske Silver <eske.silver(a)gmail.com> wrote:
We do already (or damn oughta) have precident for
these interactions...
Sudoroom has many long-standing policies for this. First, any Sudoroom
member is empowered to ask a non-member to leave at any time. Second,
when a person's presence makes someone else feel unsafe, we ask them
to leave and not return until the end of a conflict resolution process
(if they want one). The process involves a mediator and steward having
private meetings and then reporting back afterwards. Facts and
arguments are not hashed out at a public meeting unless the process
has failed spectacularly. We've never had to do that.
Sudoroom values fairness, but we have always prioritized safety over fairness.
WRT Elliot, I haven't been around enough lately to know, but it sounds
like we've kicked out many strangers for less and never thought twice.
It's so much easier to be lenient with a familiar face, but that's not
"fair"...
12 Jan
12 Jan
4:24 p.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] Elliot Hughes
I personally support sudo's policy on this, rather than a policy in which
you cannot ban someone from a space for safety issues until mediation is
handled. It is not possible to keep an area a safe space if people cannot
be asked to leave until mediation (which should be conducted off property)
has been facilitated. (Obviously sudo's policy in general is going to stick
in a sudo room issue, but I thought I'd bring it up because I have a lot of
~feels about it.)
Someone temporarily losing access to the Omni is not nearly as concerning
to me as facilitating a culture in which we keep people around who have
repeatedly made people unsafe or participated in acts of violence.
I also feel like large public meetings on matters like these facilitate
shaming the person of discussion more than they promote fairness. And if
the person in question is there, people feel unsafe and honest discussion
can't happen anyway.
I also agree that it's tough when it's someone known well to the community
rather than an unestablished stranger. However, I think rather than looking
at it as a ban, one could look at it as giving Elliot the space and
resources to heal and strengthen, which is clearly not happening in this
community, with the hopes of at some point welcoming Elliot back to sudo
with open arms.
On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 4:11 PM, yar <yardenack(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 3:33 PM, Eske Silver
<eske.silver(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
We do already (or damn oughta) have precident for
these interactions...
Sudoroom has many long-standing policies for this. First, any Sudoroom
member is empowered to ask a non-member to leave at any time. Second,
when a person's presence makes someone else feel unsafe, we ask them
to leave and not return until the end of a conflict resolution process
(if they want one). The process involves a mediator and steward having
private meetings and then reporting back afterwards. Facts and
arguments are not hashed out at a public meeting unless the process
has failed spectacularly. We've never had to do that.
Sudoroom values fairness, but we have always prioritized safety over
fairness.
WRT Elliot, I haven't been around enough lately to know, but it sounds
like we've kicked out many strangers for less and never thought twice.
It's so much easier to be lenient with a familiar face, but that's not
"fair"...
4:40 p.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] Elliot Hughes
WRT Elliot, I haven't been around enough lately to
know, but it sounds
like we've kicked out many strangers for less and never thought twice.
It's so much easier to be lenient with a familiar face, but that's not
"fair"...
I think the notion of a universal fairness that can be applied to all
people in all situations is kind of problematic... I think applying (or
claiming to apply) the same rules in every instance fails to take into
consideration things such as upbringing, culture, class, education, mental
and or emotional ability.
I do think we should take into account the person and their relationship to
our community. Obviously, if someone is making someone feel unsafe, I
think it's okay to ask them to leave but the reason why strangers are often
kicked out for less w/out thinking twice is generally because the
relationship that *is* the community is not there in the same way it is for
people who we interact with every day.
I don't have an answer and I know that's probably annoying but I would like
us to challenge a cookie-cutter approach to dealing with individuals and
situations - at least to have a conversation about it even if we continue
to employ the existing model in the meantime.
Maybe implementing a system that is more nuanced is impossible on a larger
scale but I would like to consider it. A topic for visioning / strategy
session, perhaps...
N
On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 4:11 PM, yar <yardenack(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 3:33 PM, Eske Silver <eske.silver(a)gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > We do already (or damn oughta) have precident for these interactions...
>
> Sudoroom has many long-standing policies for this. First, any Sudoroom
> member is empowered to ask a non-member to leave at any time. Second,
> when a person's presence makes someone else feel unsafe, we ask them
> to leave and not return until the end of a conflict resolution process
> (if they want one). The process involves a mediator and steward having
> private meetings and then reporting back afterwards. Facts and
> arguments are not hashed out at a public meeting unless the process
> has failed spectacularly. We've never had to do that.
>
> Sudoroom values fairness, but we have always prioritized safety over
> fairness.
>
WRT Elliot, I haven't been around enough lately to
know, but it sounds
like we've kicked out many strangers for less and never thought twice.
It's so much easier to be lenient with a familiar face, but that's not
"fair"...
> _______________________________________________
> sudo-discuss mailing list
> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>
4:50 p.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] Elliot Hughes
i think people we know can be easier to read/predict than people we
don't, which could convey a sense of safety to some, and perhaps
confusion to others who perceive that rules are not being applied in a
fair or just way.
the problem of how to scale conflict resolution as the number of members
and visitors grows i believe will hinge on the willingness of new
members to learn about our existing conflict resolution procedures and
A) volunteer to take a role in the process, B) review these procedures
critically in light of new evidence and take the time to propose
revisions. it would certainly be problematic to have the same people
who take care of the day to day running of the space also default to
mediating multiple simultaneous conflicts. we are seeing huge uptick in
interest in the space and our success very much depends on thorough
onboarding.
On 2015-01-12 16:40, niki wrote:
Links:
------
[1] https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
WRT Elliot, I
haven't been around enough lately to know, but it sounds
like we've kicked out many strangers for less and never thought twice.
It's so much easier to be lenient with a familiar face, but that's not
"fair"...
I think the notion of a universal fairness that can be applied to all
people in all situations is kind of problematic... I think applying (or
claiming to apply) the same rules in every instance fails to take into
consideration things such as upbringing, culture, class, education,
mental and or emotional ability.
I do think we should take into account the person and their
relationship to our community. Obviously, if someone is making someone
feel unsafe, I think it's okay to ask them to leave but the reason why
strangers are often kicked out for less w/out thinking twice is
generally because the relationship that *is* the community is not there
in the same way it is for people who we interact with every day.
I don't have an answer and I know that's probably annoying but I would
like us to challenge a cookie-cutter approach to dealing with
individuals and situations - at least to have a conversation about it
even if we continue to employ the existing model in the meantime.
Maybe implementing a system that is more nuanced is impossible on a
larger scale but I would like to consider it. A topic for visioning /
strategy session, perhaps...
N
On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 4:11 PM, yar <yardenack(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 3:33 PM, Eske Silver <eske.silver(a)gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> We do already (or damn oughta) have precident for these
>> interactions...
>
> Sudoroom has many long-standing policies for this. First, any Sudoroom
> member is empowered to ask a non-member to leave at any time. Second,
> when a person's presence makes someone else feel unsafe, we ask them
> to leave and not return until the end of a conflict resolution process
> (if they want one). The process involves a mediator and steward having
> private meetings and then reporting back afterwards. Facts and
> arguments are not hashed out at a public meeting unless the process
> has failed spectacularly. We've never had to do that.
>
> Sudoroom values fairness, but we have always prioritized safety over
> fairness.
>
WRT Elliot, I haven't been around enough
lately to know, but it sounds
like we've kicked out many strangers for less and never thought twice.
It's so much easier to be lenient with a familiar face, but that's not
"fair"...
>
> _______________________________________________
> sudo-discuss mailing list
> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss [1]
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss [1] 
15 Jan
15 Jan
11:44 a.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] Elliot Hughes
Sent this a couple days go, but I forgot to hit 'reply all':
True, though, that we have parted ways with members, and guests, for less
than [multiple physical incidents?] - comrade or not.
While case-by-case is my prefered language, I also always stand by a Zero
Tolerance for abuse toward another loving being.
From what I've read, this seems the logical mean
answer:
For the sake of Safer Spaces, let's ask that Elliot appreciate a
request
that they take leave, until we find a resolution...
For the sake of nuance and case-by-case, I'd bet we could find someone
who's known Elliot for a handful of human time increments, who would be so
kind as to reach out to Elliot. This person might then glean what's going
on with Elliot, and how he feels we (all) should/can procede with these
issues.
Then, for the sake of precident, if Elliot is willing and able, we can
follow the guide and set on to conflict resolution...
The rest is (in theory) easy, I'd say.
Any edits?
~ Korl
~ Korl
500px.com/eske
510.689.4484
11:46 a.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] Elliot Hughes
I wasn't able to make it to the sudomtg last night, and I didn't see
anything aside from announcements on the pad...
Have there been any updates on the situation(s) with Elliot/others?
~ Korl
500px.com/eske
510.689.4484
On Jan 15, 2015 11:44 AM, "Eske Silver" <eske.silver(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Sent this a couple days go, but I forgot to hit
'reply all':
True, though, that we have parted ways with members, and guests, for less
than [multiple physical incidents?] - comrade or not.
While case-by-case is my prefered language, I also always stand by a Zero
Tolerance for abuse toward another loving being.
From what I've read, this seems the logical mean answer:
For the sake of Safer Spaces, let's ask that Elliot appreciate a request
that they take leave, until we find a resolution...
For the sake of nuance and case-by-case, I'd bet we could find someone
who's known Elliot for a handful of human time increments, who would be so
kind as to reach out to Elliot. This person might then glean what's going
on with Elliot, and how he feels we (all) should/can procede with these
issues.
Then, for the sake of precident, if Elliot is willing and able, we can
follow the guide and set on to conflict resolution...
The rest is (in theory) easy, I'd say.
Any edits?
~ Korl
~ Korl
500px.com/eske
510.689.4484
11:47 a.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] Elliot Hughes
I fully support that with no edits, korl. I think it is full of compassion
and care for everyone.
On Jan 15, 2015 11:44 AM, "Eske Silver" <eske.silver(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Sent this a couple days go, but I forgot to hit
'reply all':
True, though, that we have parted ways with members, and guests, for less
than [multiple physical incidents?] - comrade or not.
While case-by-case is my prefered language, I also always stand by a Zero
Tolerance for abuse toward another loving being.
From what I've read, this seems the logical mean answer:
For the sake of Safer Spaces, let's ask that Elliot appreciate a request
that they take leave, until we find a resolution...
For the sake of nuance and case-by-case, I'd bet we could find someone
who's known Elliot for a handful of human time increments, who would be so
kind as to reach out to Elliot. This person might then glean what's going
on with Elliot, and how he feels we (all) should/can procede with these
issues.
Then, for the sake of precident, if Elliot is willing and able, we can
follow the guide and set on to conflict resolution...
The rest is (in theory) easy, I'd say.
Any edits?
~ Korl
~ Korl
500px.com/eske
510.689.4484
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
11:47 a.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] Elliot Hughes
Nothing was brought up at the meeting.
On Jan 15, 2015 11:47 AM, "Ryan" <yandoryn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I fully support that with no edits, korl. I think it
is full of compassion
and care for everyone.
On Jan 15, 2015 11:44 AM, "Eske Silver" <eske.silver(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> Sent this a couple days go, but I forgot to hit 'reply all':
>
> True, though, that we have parted ways with members, and guests, for less
> than [multiple physical incidents?] - comrade or not.
> While case-by-case is my prefered language, I also always stand by a Zero
> Tolerance for abuse toward another loving being.
>
> From what I've read, this seems the logical mean answer:
> For the sake of Safer Spaces, let's ask that Elliot appreciate a request
> that they take leave, until we find a resolution...
> For the sake of nuance and case-by-case, I'd bet we could find someone
> who's known Elliot for a handful of human time increments, who would be so
> kind as to reach out to Elliot. This person might then glean what's going
> on with Elliot, and how he feels we (all) should/can procede with these
> issues.
> Then, for the sake of precident, if Elliot is willing and able, we can
> follow the guide and set on to conflict resolution...
> The rest is (in theory) easy, I'd say.
>
> Any edits?
>
> ~ Korl
>
> ~ Korl
>
> 500px.com/eske
> 510.689.4484
>
> _______________________________________________
> discuss mailing list
> discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
>
>
11:51 a.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] Elliot Hughes
Thanks for the comments, and update.
Hopefully we'll figure out how to go about finding a solution for this.
~ Korl
500px.com/eske
510.689.4484
On Jan 15, 2015 11:47 AM, "Ryan" <yandoryn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Nothing was brought up at the meeting.
On Jan 15, 2015 11:47 AM, "Ryan" <yandoryn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> I fully support that with no edits, korl. I think it is full of
> compassion and care for everyone.
> On Jan 15, 2015 11:44 AM, "Eske Silver" <eske.silver(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
>
>> Sent this a couple days go, but I forgot to hit 'reply all':
>>
>> True, though, that we have parted ways with members, and guests, for
>> less than [multiple physical incidents?] - comrade or not.
>> While case-by-case is my prefered language, I also always stand by a
>> Zero Tolerance for abuse toward another loving being.
>>
>> From what I've read, this seems the logical mean answer:
>> For the sake of Safer Spaces, let's ask that Elliot appreciate a request
>> that they take leave, until we find a resolution...
>> For the sake of nuance and case-by-case, I'd bet we could find someone
>> who's known Elliot for a handful of human time increments, who would be so
>> kind as to reach out to Elliot. This person might then glean what's going
>> on with Elliot, and how he feels we (all) should/can procede with these
>> issues.
>> Then, for the sake of precident, if Elliot is willing and able, we can
>> follow the guide and set on to conflict resolution...
>> The rest is (in theory) easy, I'd say.
>>
>> Any edits?
>>
>> ~ Korl
>>
>> ~ Korl
>>
>> 500px.com/eske
>> 510.689.4484
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> discuss mailing list
>> discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
>> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
>>
>>
1:44 p.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] Elliot Hughes
The path forward for those interested in pursuing this issue is to put it on the sudoroom
meeting agenda, and show up prepared to discuss a proposal. No one involved in this issue
was present at the sudo room meeting last night. In all honesty we could really use more
participation in those meetings by regular members other than Marc, myself and Matt.
Thanks,
Jenny
On 01/15/2015 11:51 AM, Eske Silver wrote:
Thanks for the comments, and update.
Hopefully we'll figure out how to go about finding a solution for this.
~ Korl
500px.com/eske
510.689.4484
On Jan 15, 2015 11:47 AM, "Ryan" <yandoryn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
--
Jenny
http://jennyryan.net
http://sudomesh.org
http://thevirtualcampfire.org
http://technomadic.tumblr.com
`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
"Technology is the campfire around which we tell our stories."
-Laurie Anderson
"Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the error of defining it."
-Hannah Arendt
"To define is to kill. To suggest is to create."
-Stéphane Mallarmé
~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
Nothing was brought up at the meeting.
On Jan 15, 2015 11:47 AM, "Ryan" <yandoryn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> I fully support that with no edits, korl. I think it is full of
> compassion and care for everyone.
> On Jan 15, 2015 11:44 AM, "Eske Silver" <eske.silver(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
>
>> Sent this a couple days go, but I forgot to hit 'reply all':
>>
>> True, though, that we have parted ways with members, and guests, for
>> less than [multiple physical incidents?] - comrade or not.
>> While case-by-case is my prefered language, I also always stand by a
>> Zero Tolerance for abuse toward another loving being.
>>
>> From what I've read, this seems the logical mean answer:
>> For the sake of Safer Spaces, let's ask that Elliot appreciate a request
>> that they take leave, until we find a resolution...
>> For the sake of nuance and case-by-case, I'd bet we could find someone
>> who's known Elliot for a handful of human time increments, who would be so
>> kind as to reach out to Elliot. This person might then glean what's going
>> on with Elliot, and how he feels we (all) should/can procede with these
>> issues.
>> Then, for the sake of precident, if Elliot is willing and able, we can
>> follow the guide and set on to conflict resolution...
>> The rest is (in theory) easy, I'd say.
>>
>> Any edits?
>>
>> ~ Korl
>>
>> ~ Korl
>>
>> 500px.com/eske
>> 510.689.4484
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> discuss mailing list
>> discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
>> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
>>
>>
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
1:50 p.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] Elliot Hughes
Hey all,
I am regularly moved by the sudo room community's compassion.
However, allow me to re-iterate a selection of my original message, facts
and my personal positions that have not changed:
this is the second time in our new location (I was present the first time)
... of Elliot escalating a situation to a physical,
even violent, response
on his part.
We must differentiate patterns of behavior from isolated incidents. This is
a pattern, and I think it reasonable to anticipate the risk of repeat
behavior.
I am no longer willing to tolerate this behavior
Nor do I believe anyone should.
[Elliot's continued participation is] ... a greater cost, and even greater
potential risk, than a revocation of his privilege to
use the space.
Consequences are hard to deal with, but we, as individuals, must hold
ourselves and each other responsible for our actions.
It has become more and more obvious to me that when individuals take
advantage of their access to the commons, it is most critical for our
community to act as stewards, to show resolve that such behavior will not
be tolerated, and that paths to reconciliation begin with recognizing that,
if necessary, the privilege to access the commons can, and will, be taken
away.
// Matt
On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 1:44 PM, Jenny Ryan <tunabananas(a)gmail.com> wrote:
The path forward for those interested in pursuing this
issue is to put it
on the sudoroom meeting agenda, and show up prepared to discuss a proposal.
No one involved in this issue was present at the sudo room meeting last
night. In all honesty we could really use more participation in those
meetings by regular members other than Marc, myself and Matt.
Thanks,
Jenny
On 01/15/2015 11:51 AM, Eske Silver wrote:
--
Jenny
http://jennyryan.net
http://sudomesh.org
http://thevirtualcampfire.org
http://technomadic.tumblr.com
`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
"Technology is the campfire around which we tell our stories."
-Laurie Anderson
"Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the error of defining it."
-Hannah Arendt
"To define is to kill. To suggest is to create."
-Stéphane Mallarmé
~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
Thanks for the comments, and update.
Hopefully we'll figure out how to go about finding a solution for this.
~ Korl
500px.com/eske
510.689.4484
On Jan 15, 2015 11:47 AM, "Ryan" <yandoryn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> Nothing was brought up at the meeting.
> On Jan 15, 2015 11:47 AM, "Ryan" <yandoryn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I fully support that with no edits, korl. I think it is full of
>> compassion and care for everyone.
>> On Jan 15, 2015 11:44 AM, "Eske Silver" <eske.silver(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
>>
>>> Sent this a couple days go, but I forgot to hit 'reply all':
>>>
>>> True, though, that we have parted ways with members, and guests, for
>>> less than [multiple physical incidents?] - comrade or not.
>>> While case-by-case is my prefered language, I also always stand by a
>>> Zero Tolerance for abuse toward another loving being.
>>>
>>> From what I've read, this seems the logical mean answer:
>>> For the sake of Safer Spaces, let's ask that Elliot appreciate a
request
>>> that they take leave, until we find
a resolution...
>>> For the sake of nuance and case-by-case, I'd bet we could find
someone
>>> who's known Elliot for a handful
of human time increments, who would
be so
>>> kind as to reach out to Elliot. This
person might then glean what's
going
>>> on with Elliot, and how he feels we
(all) should/can procede with
these
>>> issues.
>>> Then, for the sake of precident, if Elliot is willing and able, we
can
>>
follow the guide and set on to conflict resolution...
>> The rest is (in theory) easy, I'd say.
>>
>> Any edits?
>>
>> ~ Korl
>>
>> ~ Korl
>>
>> 500px.com/eske
>> 510.689.4484
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> discuss mailing list
>> discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
>> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
>>
>>
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
4:18 p.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] Elliot Hughes
There needs to be clear guidelines surrounding who can access the
commons otherwise the commons deteriorates.
If someone breaks a rule, they should be subject to consequences.
Is there no policy guideline surrounding physical violence in this commons??
On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 1:50 PM, Matthew Senate <mattsenate(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Hey all,
I am regularly moved by the sudo room community's compassion.
However, allow me to re-iterate a selection of my original message, facts
and my personal positions that have not changed:
this is the second time in our new location (I
was present the first time)
... of Elliot escalating a situation to a physical, even violent, response
on his part.
We must differentiate patterns of behavior from isolated incidents. This is
a pattern, and I think it reasonable to anticipate the risk of repeat
behavior.
I am no longer willing to tolerate this behavior
Nor do I believe anyone should.
[Elliot's continued participation is] ... a
greater cost, and even greater
potential risk, than a revocation of his privilege to use the space.
Consequences are hard to deal with, but we, as individuals, must hold
ourselves and each other responsible for our actions.
It has become more and more obvious to me that when individuals take
advantage of their access to the commons, it is most critical for our
community to act as stewards, to show resolve that such behavior will not be
tolerated, and that paths to reconciliation begin with recognizing that, if
necessary, the privilege to access the commons can, and will, be taken away.
// Matt
On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 1:44 PM, Jenny Ryan <tunabananas(a)gmail.com> wrote:
The path forward for those interested in pursuing this issue is to put it
on the sudoroom meeting agenda, and show up prepared to discuss a proposal.
No one involved in this issue was present at the sudo room meeting last
night. In all honesty we could really use more participation in those
meetings by regular members other than Marc, myself and Matt.
Thanks,
Jenny
On 01/15/2015 11:51 AM, Eske Silver wrote:
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
Thanks for the comments, and update.
Hopefully we'll figure out how to go about finding a solution for this.
~ Korl
500px.com/eske
510.689.4484
On Jan 15, 2015 11:47 AM, "Ryan" <yandoryn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
--
Jenny
http://jennyryan.net
http://sudomesh.org
http://thevirtualcampfire.org
http://technomadic.tumblr.com
`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
"Technology is the campfire around which we tell our stories."
-Laurie Anderson
"Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the error of defining
it."
-Hannah Arendt
"To define is to kill. To suggest is to create."
-Stéphane Mallarmé
~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss Nothing was brought up at the meeting.
On Jan 15, 2015 11:47 AM, "Ryan" <yandoryn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> I fully support that with no edits, korl. I think it is full of
> compassion and care for everyone.
> On Jan 15, 2015 11:44 AM, "Eske Silver" <eske.silver(a)gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Sent this a couple days go, but I forgot to hit 'reply all':
>>
>> True, though, that we have parted ways with members, and guests, for
>> less than [multiple physical incidents?] - comrade or not.
>> While case-by-case is my prefered language, I also always stand by a
>> Zero Tolerance for abuse toward another loving being.
>>
>> From what I've read, this seems the logical mean answer:
>> For the sake of Safer Spaces, let's ask that Elliot appreciate a
>> request
>> that they take leave, until we find a resolution...
>> For the sake of nuance and case-by-case, I'd bet we could find
>> someone
>> who's known Elliot for a handful of human time increments, who would
>> be so
>> kind as to reach out to Elliot. This person might then glean what's
>> going
>> on with Elliot, and how he feels we (all) should/can procede with
>> these
>> issues.
>> Then, for the sake of precident, if Elliot is willing and able, we
>> can
>> follow the guide and set on to conflict resolution...
>> The rest is (in theory) easy, I'd say.
>>
>> Any edits?
>>
>> ~ Korl
>>
>> ~ Korl
>>
>> 500px.com/eske
>> 510.689.4484
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> discuss mailing list
>> discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
>> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
>>
>>
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
4:21 p.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] Elliot Hughes
yes. I think this is it
https://omnicommons.org/wiki/Safer_Space_Policy#4..E2.80.8E_.E2.80.8FConseq…
On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 4:18 PM, Karissa McKelvey <krmckelv(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
There needs to be clear guidelines surrounding who can
access the
commons otherwise the commons deteriorates.
If someone breaks a rule, they should be subject to consequences.
Is there no policy guideline surrounding physical violence in this
commons??
On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 1:50 PM, Matthew Senate <mattsenate(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
is
not be
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
Hey all,
I am regularly moved by the sudo room community's compassion.
However, allow me to re-iterate a selection of my original message, facts
and my personal positions that have not changed:
> this is the second time in our new location (I was present the first
time)
> ... of Elliot escalating a situation to a
physical, even violent,
response
on his
part.
We must differentiate patterns of behavior from isolated incidents. This a pattern, and I think it reasonable to
anticipate the risk of repeat
behavior.
greater
I am no longer willing to tolerate this behavior
Nor do I believe anyone should.
> [Elliot's continued participation is] ... a greater cost, and even potential
risk, than a revocation of his privilege to use the space.
Consequences are hard to deal with, but we, as individuals, must hold
ourselves and each other responsible for our actions.
It has become more and more obvious to me that when individuals take
advantage of their access to the commons, it is most critical for our
community to act as stewards, to show resolve that such behavior will tolerated, and that paths to reconciliation begin
with recognizing that,
if
necessary, the privilege to access the commons
can, and will, be taken
away.
// Matt
On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 1:44 PM, Jenny Ryan <tunabananas(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> The path forward for those interested in pursuing this issue is to put
it
> on the sudoroom meeting agenda, and show up
prepared to discuss a
proposal.
> No one involved in this issue was present at
the sudo room meeting last
> night. In all honesty we could really use more participation in those
> meetings by regular members other than Marc, myself and Matt.
>
> Thanks,
> Jenny
>
> On 01/15/2015 11:51 AM, Eske Silver wrote:
> > Thanks for the comments, and update.
> > Hopefully we'll figure out how to go about finding a solution for
this.
> >
> > ~ Korl
> >
> > 500px.com/eske
> > 510.689.4484
> > On Jan 15, 2015 11:47 AM, "Ryan" <yandoryn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Nothing was brought up at the meeting.
> > > On Jan 15, 2015 11:47 AM, "Ryan" <yandoryn(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> > >
> > >> I fully support that with no edits, korl. I think it is full of
> > >> compassion and care for everyone.
> > >> On Jan 15, 2015 11:44 AM, "Eske Silver"
<eske.silver(a)gmail.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Sent this a couple days go, but I forgot to hit 'reply
all':
> > >>>
> > >>> True, though, that we have parted ways with members, and guests,
for
> > >>> less than [multiple
physical incidents?] - comrade or not.
> > >>> While case-by-case is my prefered language, I also always stand
by a
> > >>> Zero Tolerance for abuse
toward another loving being.
> > >>>
> > >>> From what I've read, this seems the logical mean answer:
> > >>> For the sake of Safer Spaces, let's ask that Elliot appreciate
a
> > >>> request
> > >>> that they take leave, until we find a resolution...
> > >>> For the sake of nuance and case-by-case, I'd bet we could find
> > >>> someone
> > >>> who's known Elliot for a handful of human time increments, who
would
> > >>> be so
> > >>> kind as to reach out to Elliot. This person might then glean
what's
>>> going
>>> on with Elliot, and how he feels we (all) should/can procede with
>>> these
>>> issues.
>>> Then, for the sake of precident, if Elliot is willing and able, we
>>> can
>>> follow the guide and set on to conflict resolution...
>>> The rest is (in theory) easy, I'd say.
>>>
>>> Any edits?
>>>
>>> ~ Korl
>>>
>>> ~ Korl
>>>
>>> 500px.com/eske
>>> 510.689.4484
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> discuss mailing list
>>> discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
>>> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
>>>
>>>
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
--
Jenny
http://jennyryan.net
http://sudomesh.org
http://thevirtualcampfire.org
http://technomadic.tumblr.com
`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
"Technology is the campfire around which we tell our stories."
-Laurie Anderson
"Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the error of defining
it."
-Hannah Arendt
"To define is to kill. To suggest is to create."
-Stéphane Mallarmé
~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
4:53 p.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] Elliot Hughes
from sudo room articles:
SECTION 2.3 BENEFITS
The following are benefits available to all members:
* Usable assets and resources [10] available within reasonable
constraints of time and under the condition of sharing.
* SUDO ROOM strives to make assets and resources available to as many
non-member participants and beneficiaries as possible.
* Note: no personal property should be stored in SUDO ROOM unless a
system for personal storage can be provided by SUDO ROOM.
* Note: the use of SUDO ROOM environments for habitation and/or
domestic use is strongly discouraged.
* Approved discounts and services negotiated through the collective
purchasing power of SUDO ROOM.
* Items are up to the discretion of SUDO ROOM to determine through its
budgeting and decision-making processes.
* A _safe space,_ which is defined as:
* "A place where anyone can relax and be fully self-expressed, without
fear of being made to feel uncomfortable, unwelcome, or unsafe on
account of biological sex, race/ethnicity, sexual orientation, gender
identity or expression, cultural background, age, or physical or mental
ability; a place where the rules guard each person's self-respect and
dignity and strongly encourage everyone to respect others." -- Advocates
for Youth via Wikipedia [11].
* A place free of physical violence or threats thereof.
On 2015-01-15 16:21, Stephen Novotny wrote:
yes. I think this is it
https://omnicommons.org/wiki/Safer_Space_Policy#4..E2.80.8E_.E2.80.8FConseq…
[9]
On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 4:18 PM, Karissa McKelvey <krmckelv(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Links:
------
[1] http://500px.com/eske
[2] tel:510.689.4484
[3] https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
[4] http://jennyryan.net
[5] http://sudomesh.org
[6] http://thevirtualcampfire.org
[7] http://technomadic.tumblr.com
[8] https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
[9]
https://omnicommons.org/wiki/Safer_Space_Policy#4..E2.80.8E_.E2.80.8FConseq…
[10]
https://sudoroom.org/wiki/Articles_of_Association/Assets_and_Resources
[11] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safe-space
There needs to be clear guidelines surrounding
who can access the
commons otherwise the commons deteriorates.
If someone breaks a rule, they should be subject to consequences.
Is there no policy guideline surrounding physical violence in this commons??
On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 1:50 PM, Matthew Senate <mattsenate(a)gmail.com> wrote:
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss [8] Hey all,
I am regularly moved by the sudo room community's compassion.
However, allow me to re-iterate a selection of my original message, facts
and my personal positions that have not changed:
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss [3] this is the second time in our new location (I
was present the first time)
... of Elliot escalating a situation to a physical, even violent, response
on his part.
We must differentiate patterns of behavior from isolated incidents. This is
a pattern, and I think it reasonable to anticipate the risk of repeat
behavior.
I am no longer willing to tolerate this behavior
Nor do I believe anyone should.
[Elliot's continued participation is] ... a
greater cost, and even greater
potential risk, than a revocation of his privilege to use the space.
Consequences are hard to deal with, but we, as individuals, must hold
ourselves and each other responsible for our actions.
It has become more and more obvious to me that when individuals take
advantage of their access to the commons, it is most critical for our
community to act as stewards, to show resolve that such behavior will not be
tolerated, and that paths to reconciliation begin with recognizing that, if
necessary, the privilege to access the commons can, and will, be taken away.
// Matt
On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 1:44 PM, Jenny Ryan <tunabananas(a)gmail.com> wrote:
The path forward for those interested in pursuing this issue is to put it
on the sudoroom meeting agenda, and show up prepared to discuss a proposal.
No one involved in this issue was present at the sudo room meeting last
night. In all honesty we could really use more participation in those
meetings by regular members other than Marc, myself and Matt.
Thanks,
Jenny
On 01/15/2015 11:51 AM, Eske Silver wrote:
> Thanks for the comments, and update.
> Hopefully we'll figure out how to go about finding a solution for this.
>
> ~ Korl
>
> 500px.com/eske [1]
> 510.689.4484 [2]
> On Jan 15, 2015 11:47 AM, "Ryan" <yandoryn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Nothing was brought up at the meeting.
> > On Jan 15, 2015 11:47 AM, "Ryan" <yandoryn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I fully support that with no edits, korl. I think it is full of
> >> compassion and care for everyone.
> >> On Jan 15, 2015 11:44 AM, "Eske Silver"
<eske.silver(a)gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Sent this a couple days go, but I forgot to hit 'reply all':
> >>>
> >>> True, though, that we have parted ways with members, and guests, for
> >>> less than [multiple physical incidents?] - comrade or not.
> >>> While case-by-case is my prefered language, I also always stand by a
> >>> Zero Tolerance for abuse toward another loving being.
> >>>
> >>> From what I've read, this seems the logical mean answer:
> >>> For the sake of Safer Spaces, let's ask that Elliot appreciate a
> >>> request
> >>> that they take leave, until we find a resolution...
> >>> For the sake of nuance and case-by-case, I'd bet we could find
> >>> someone
> >>> who's known Elliot for a handful of human time increments, who
would
> >>> be so
> >>> kind as to reach out to Elliot. This person might then glean what's
> >>> going
> >>> on with Elliot, and how he feels we (all) should/can procede with
> >>> these
> >>> issues.
> >>> Then, for the sake of precident, if Elliot is willing and able, we
> >>> can
> >>> follow the guide and set on to conflict resolution...
> >>> The rest is (in theory) easy, I'd say.
> >>>
> >>> Any edits?
> >>>
> >>> ~ Korl
> >>>
> >>> ~ Korl
> >>>
> >>> 500px.com/eske [1]
> >>> 510.689.4484 [2]
> >>>
> >>
_______________________________________________
> >>> discuss mailing
list
> >>> discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
> >>> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss [3]
> >>>
> >>>
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
> discuss mailing list
> discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss [3]
>
--
Jenny
http://jennyryan.net [4]
http://sudomesh.org [5]
http://thevirtualcampfire.org [6]
http://technomadic.tumblr.com [7]
`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
"Technology is the campfire around which we tell our stories."
-Laurie Anderson
"Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the error of defining
it."
-Hannah Arendt
"To define is to kill. To suggest is to create."
-Stéphane Mallarmé
~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss [3] _______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss [8]
5:34 p.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] Elliot Hughes
To add my voice to the discussion:
- The incidents in this case should not be kept secret but told publicly to
the list. Not that anyone is advancing this, but this should not be a
closed session thing - elliot is part of more communities than sudo, so
lets have the mediator but the circumstances should be public. I don't
think Elliot would object to that.
- May I ask, has elliot already been formally warned against any of this
behavior, or not? It would be good to know.
- It should be noted that in at least 3 of the incidents I know about at
least over the last couple years, the genesis of the incident was Elliot's
attempt to act to protect space and community around him, albiet in an
badly escalating way that I agree is definitely something that has to stop.
Nonetheless I think the intent and circumstance are germane.
For example (to the best of my knowledge here):
The first incident I'm aware of was an altercation with an individual who
if I recall correctly was already banned from another collective, RPS, due
to safe space issues.
In the second instance our landlord back at 2141 set off a bug bomb while
people were working in the space and Elliot forcibly removed it outside.
In the second instance someone jimmied open the door with knife, called
jenny a bitch and had to be escorted out. (This guy had disrupted public
school classes in the past and is a verified creep.)
In the third instance, I hear elliot thought a new sudo applicant (someone
not yet well known in our community) was stealing. Prior to the
altercation, at least one sudo organizer formally expressed concern for
this new member's mental/emotional state. From what I understand its not
clear whether the individual was stealing or not, but I believe this should
be taken into account.
Basically for all elliots faults I do see elliot as someone who actually
tries to protect the space and those around him and I feel that this
information is missing from the conversation about preserving safe space. I
believe intent is not irrelevant and to elliot's mind, I am pretty sure, he
is trying to keep the safe space, not make it less safe. That he does so in
a reckless way is bad but the pattern to me seems to be elliot being
overprotective and escalating.
A caveat is most of my information is second-hand, but I felt such
circumstances are germane.
David
On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 4:53 PM, <hol(a)gaskill.com> wrote:
from sudo room articles:
Section 2.3 Benefits
The following are benefits available to all members:
- Usable assets and resources
<https://sudoroom.org/wiki/Articles_of_Association/Assets_and_Resources>
available within reasonable constraints of time and under the condition of
sharing.
- *sudo room* strives to make assets and resources available to as
many non-member participants and beneficiaries as possible.
- Note: no personal property should be stored in *sudo room* unless
a system for personal storage can be provided by *sudo room*.
- Note: the use of *sudo room* environments for habitation and/or
domestic use is strongly discouraged.
- Approved discounts and services negotiated through the collective
purchasing power of *sudo room*.
- Items are up to the discretion of *sudo room* to determine
through its budgeting and decision-making processes.
- A *safe space,* which is defined as:
- "A place where anyone can relax and be fully self-expressed,
without fear of being made to feel uncomfortable, unwelcome, or unsafe on
account of biological sex, race/ethnicity, sexual orientation, gender
identity or expression, cultural background, age, or physical or mental
ability; a place where the rules guard each person's self-respect and
dignity and strongly encourage everyone to respect others." —
Advocates for Youth via Wikipedia
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safe-space>.
- A place free of physical violence or threats thereof.
On 2015-01-15 16:21, Stephen Novotny wrote:
yes. I think this is it
https://omnicommons.org/wiki/Safer_Space_Policy#4..E2.80.8E_.E2.80.8FConseq…
On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 4:18 PM, Karissa McKelvey <krmckelv(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
There needs to be clear guidelines surrounding
who can access the
commons otherwise the commons deteriorates.
If someone breaks a rule, they should be subject to consequences.
Is there no policy guideline surrounding physical violence in this
commons??
On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 1:50 PM, Matthew Senate <mattsenate(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
This is
not be
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing
listsudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.orghttps://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
Hey all,
I am regularly moved by the sudo room community's compassion.
However, allow me to re-iterate a selection of my original message,
facts
and my personal positions that have not changed:
> this is the second time in our new location (I was present the first
time)
> ... of Elliot escalating a situation to a
physical, even violent,
response
on his
part.
We must differentiate patterns of behavior from isolated incidents. a pattern, and I think it reasonable to
anticipate the risk of repeat
behavior.
greater
I am no longer willing to tolerate this behavior
Nor do I believe anyone should.
> [Elliot's continued participation is] ... a greater cost, and even potential
risk, than a revocation of his privilege to use the space.
Consequences are hard to deal with, but we, as individuals, must hold
ourselves and each other responsible for our actions.
It has become more and more obvious to me that when individuals take
advantage of their access to the commons, it is most critical for our
community to act as stewards, to show resolve that such behavior will tolerated, and that paths to reconciliation begin
with recognizing
that, if
necessary, the privilege to access the commons
can, and will, be taken
away.
// Matt
On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 1:44 PM, Jenny Ryan <tunabananas(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> The path forward for those interested in pursuing this issue is to put
it
> on the sudoroom meeting agenda, and show up
prepared to discuss a
proposal.
> No one involved in this issue was present at
the sudo room meeting last
> night. In all honesty we could really use more participation in those
> meetings by regular members other than Marc, myself and Matt.
>
> Thanks,
> Jenny
>
> On 01/15/2015 11:51 AM, Eske Silver wrote:
> > Thanks for the comments, and update.
> > Hopefully we'll figure out how to go about finding a solution for
this.
> >
> > ~ Korl
> >
> > 500px.com/eske
> > 510.689.4484
> > On Jan 15, 2015 11:47 AM, "Ryan" <yandoryn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Nothing was brought up at the meeting.
> > > On Jan 15, 2015 11:47 AM, "Ryan" <yandoryn(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> > >
> > >> I fully support that with no edits, korl. I think it is full of
> > >> compassion and care for everyone.
> > >> On Jan 15, 2015 11:44 AM, "Eske Silver"
<eske.silver(a)gmail.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Sent this a couple days go, but I forgot to hit 'reply
all':
> > >>>
> > >>> True, though, that we have parted ways with members, and guests,
for
> > >>> less than [multiple
physical incidents?] - comrade or not.
> > >>> While case-by-case is my prefered language, I also always stand
by a
> > >>> Zero Tolerance for abuse
toward another loving being.
> > >>>
> > >>> From what I've read, this seems the logical mean answer:
> > >>> For the sake of Safer Spaces, let's ask that Elliot appreciate
a
> > >>> request
> > >>> that they take leave, until we find a resolution...
> > >>> For the sake of nuance and case-by-case, I'd bet we could find
> > >>> someone
> > >>> who's known Elliot for a handful of human time increments, who
would
> > >>> be so
> > >>> kind as to reach out to Elliot. This person might then glean
what's
> > >>> going
> > >>> on with Elliot, and how he feels we (all) should/can procede with
> > >>> these
> > >>> issues.
> > >>> Then, for the sake of precident, if Elliot is willing and able,
we
>
>>> can
> >>> follow the guide and set on to conflict resolution...
> >>> The rest is (in theory) easy, I'd say.
> >>>
> >>> Any edits?
> >>>
> >>> ~ Korl
> >>>
> >>> ~ Korl
> >>>
> >>> 500px.com/eske
> >>> 510.689.4484
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> discuss mailing list
> >>> discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
> >>> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
> >>>
> >>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> discuss mailing list
> discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
>
--
Jenny
http://jennyryan.net
http://sudomesh.org
http://thevirtualcampfire.org
http://technomadic.tumblr.com
`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
"Technology is the campfire around which we tell our stories."
-Laurie Anderson
"Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the error of defining
it."
-Hannah Arendt
"To define is to kill. To suggest is to create."
-Stéphane Mallarmé
~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
7:37 p.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] Elliot Hughes
I emailed Elliot and informed him of my original proposal:
"I propose sudo room in particular revoke Elliot's non-member privilege to
access the sudo room, and therefore the omni commons, until Elliot can
provide the sudo room membership with tangible evidence of a new investment
in the prevention of physical violence and marked improvement of his own
behavior in this regard."
And that I will be bringing this up at the next sudo room weekly meeting.
I also informed him that others may have proposals or amendments, and that
nothing has been decided as of yet.
// Matt
On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 5:34 PM, David Keenan <dkeenan44(a)gmail.com> wrote:
To add my voice to the discussion:
- The incidents in this case should not be kept secret but told publicly
to the list. Not that anyone is advancing this, but this should not be a
closed session thing - elliot is part of more communities than sudo, so
lets have the mediator but the circumstances should be public. I don't
think Elliot would object to that.
- May I ask, has elliot already been formally warned against any of this
behavior, or not? It would be good to know.
- It should be noted that in at least 3 of the incidents I know about at
least over the last couple years, the genesis of the incident was Elliot's
attempt to act to protect space and community around him, albiet in an
badly escalating way that I agree is definitely something that has to stop.
Nonetheless I think the intent and circumstance are germane.
For example (to the best of my knowledge here):
The first incident I'm aware of was an altercation with an individual who
if I recall correctly was already banned from another collective, RPS, due
to safe space issues.
In the second instance our landlord back at 2141 set off a bug bomb while
people were working in the space and Elliot forcibly removed it outside.
In the second instance someone jimmied open the door with knife, called
jenny a bitch and had to be escorted out. (This guy had disrupted public
school classes in the past and is a verified creep.)
In the third instance, I hear elliot thought a new sudo applicant (someone
not yet well known in our community) was stealing. Prior to the
altercation, at least one sudo organizer formally expressed concern for
this new member's mental/emotional state. From what I understand its not
clear whether the individual was stealing or not, but I believe this should
be taken into account.
Basically for all elliots faults I do see elliot as someone who actually
tries to protect the space and those around him and I feel that this
information is missing from the conversation about preserving safe space. I
believe intent is not irrelevant and to elliot's mind, I am pretty sure, he
is trying to keep the safe space, not make it less safe. That he does so in
a reckless way is bad but the pattern to me seems to be elliot being
overprotective and escalating.
A caveat is most of my information is second-hand, but I felt such
circumstances are germane.
David
On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 4:53 PM, <hol(a)gaskill.com> wrote:
from sudo room articles:
Section 2.3 Benefits
The following are benefits available to all members:
- Usable assets and resources
<https://sudoroom.org/wiki/Articles_of_Association/Assets_and_Resources>
available within reasonable constraints of time and under the condition of
sharing.
- *sudo room* strives to make assets and resources available to as
many non-member participants and beneficiaries as possible.
- Note: no personal property should be stored in *sudo room*
unless a system for personal storage can be provided by *sudo room*
.
- Note: the use of *sudo room* environments for habitation and/or
domestic use is strongly discouraged.
- Approved discounts and services negotiated through the collective
purchasing power of *sudo room*.
- Items are up to the discretion of *sudo room* to determine
through its budgeting and decision-making processes.
- A *safe space,* which is defined as:
- "A place where anyone can relax and be fully self-expressed,
without fear of being made to feel uncomfortable, unwelcome, or unsafe on
account of biological sex, race/ethnicity, sexual orientation, gender
identity or expression, cultural background, age, or physical or mental
ability; a place where the rules guard each person's self-respect and
dignity and strongly encourage everyone to respect others." —
Advocates for Youth via Wikipedia
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safe-space>.
- A place free of physical violence or threats thereof.
On 2015-01-15 16:21, Stephen Novotny wrote:
yes. I think this is it
https://omnicommons.org/wiki/Safer_Space_Policy#4..E2.80.8E_.E2.80.8FConseq…
On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 4:18 PM, Karissa McKelvey <krmckelv(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
There needs to be clear guidelines surrounding
who can access the
commons otherwise the commons deteriorates.
If someone breaks a rule, they should be subject to consequences.
Is there no policy guideline surrounding physical violence in this
commons??
On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 1:50 PM, Matthew Senate <mattsenate(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing
listsudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.orghttps://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
Hey all,
I am regularly moved by the sudo room community's compassion.
However, allow me to re-iterate a selection of my original message,
facts
and my personal positions that have not changed:
> this is the second time in our new location (I was present the first
time)
> ... of Elliot escalating a situation to a
physical, even violent,
response
> on his part.
We must differentiate patterns of behavior from isolated incidents.
This is
a pattern, and I think it reasonable to
anticipate the risk of repeat
behavior.
> I am no longer willing to tolerate this behavior
Nor do I believe anyone should.
> [Elliot's continued participation is] ... a greater cost, and even
greater
> potential risk, than a revocation of his
privilege to use the space.
Consequences are hard to deal with, but we, as individuals, must hold
ourselves and each other responsible for our actions.
It has become more and more obvious to me that when individuals take
advantage of their access to the commons, it is most critical for our
community to act as stewards, to show resolve that such behavior will
not be
tolerated, and that paths to reconciliation begin
with recognizing
that, if
necessary, the privilege to access the commons
can, and will, be taken
away.
// Matt
On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 1:44 PM, Jenny Ryan <tunabananas(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> The path forward for those interested in pursuing this issue is to
put it
> on the sudoroom meeting agenda, and show up
prepared to discuss a
proposal.
> No one involved in this issue was present at
the sudo room meeting
last
> night. In all honesty we could really use
more participation in those
> meetings by regular members other than Marc, myself and Matt.
>
> Thanks,
> Jenny
>
> On 01/15/2015 11:51 AM, Eske Silver wrote:
> > Thanks for the comments, and update.
> > Hopefully we'll figure out how to go about finding a solution for
this.
> >
> > ~ Korl
> >
> > 500px.com/eske
> > 510.689.4484
> > On Jan 15, 2015 11:47 AM, "Ryan" <yandoryn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Nothing was brought up at the meeting.
> > > On Jan 15, 2015 11:47 AM, "Ryan" <yandoryn(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> > >
> > >> I fully support that with no edits, korl. I think it is full of
> > >> compassion and care for everyone.
> > >> On Jan 15, 2015 11:44 AM, "Eske Silver"
<eske.silver(a)gmail.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Sent this a couple days go, but I forgot to hit 'reply
all':
> > >>>
> > >>> True, though, that we have parted ways with members, and
guests, for
> > >>> less than [multiple
physical incidents?] - comrade or not.
> > >>> While case-by-case is my prefered language, I also always stand
by a
> > >>> Zero Tolerance for abuse
toward another loving being.
> > >>>
> > >>> From what I've read, this seems the logical mean answer:
> > >>> For the sake of Safer Spaces, let's ask that Elliot appreciate
a
> > >>> request
> > >>> that they take leave, until we find a resolution...
> > >>> For the sake of nuance and case-by-case, I'd bet we could find
> > >>> someone
> > >>> who's known Elliot for a handful of human time increments, who
would
> > >>> be so
> > >>> kind as to reach out to Elliot. This person might then glean
what's
> > >>> going
> > >>> on with Elliot, and how he feels we (all) should/can procede
with
> > >>> these
> > >>> issues.
> > >>> Then, for the sake of precident, if Elliot is willing and able,
we
> > >>> can
> > >>> follow the guide and set on to conflict resolution...
> > >>> The rest is (in theory) easy, I'd say.
> > >>>
> > >>> Any edits?
> > >>>
> > >>> ~ Korl
> > >>>
> > >>> ~ Korl
> > >>>
> > >>> 500px.com/eske
> > >>> 510.689.4484
> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> discuss mailing list
> > >>> discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
> > >>> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
> > >>>
> > >>>
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > discuss mailing list
> > discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
> > https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
> >
>
>
> --
>
> Jenny
> http://jennyryan.net
> http://sudomesh.org
> http://thevirtualcampfire.org
> http://technomadic.tumblr.com
>
> `~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
> "Technology is the campfire around which we tell our stories."
> -Laurie Anderson
>
> "Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the error of defining
> it."
> -Hannah Arendt
>
> "To define is to kill. To suggest is to create."
> -Stéphane Mallarmé
> ~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
> _______________________________________________
> discuss mailing list
> discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
16 Jan
16 Jan
12:13 a.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] Elliot Hughes
right on
On 2015-01-15 17:34, David Keenan wrote:
To add my voice to the discussion:
- The incidents in this case should not be kept secret but told publicly to the list. Not
that anyone is advancing this, but this should not be a closed session thing - elliot is
part of more communities than sudo, so lets have the mediator but the circumstances should
be public. I don't think Elliot would object to that.
- May I ask, has elliot already been formally warned against any of this behavior, or
not? It would be good to know.
- It should be noted that in at least 3 of the incidents I know about at least over the
last couple years, the genesis of the incident was Elliot's attempt to act to protect
space and community around him, albiet in an badly escalating way that I agree is
definitely something that has to stop. Nonetheless I think the intent and circumstance are
germane.
For example (to the best of my knowledge here):
The first incident I'm aware of was an altercation with an individual who if I recall
correctly was already banned from another collective, RPS, due to safe space issues.
In the second instance our landlord back at 2141 set off a bug bomb while people were
working in the space and Elliot forcibly removed it outside.
In the second instance someone jimmied open the door with knife, called jenny a bitch and
had to be escorted out. (This guy had disrupted public school classes in the past and is a
verified creep.)
In the third instance, I hear elliot thought a new sudo applicant (someone not yet well
known in our community) was stealing. Prior to the altercation, at least one sudo
organizer formally expressed concern for this new member's mental/emotional state.
From what I understand its not clear whether the individual was stealing or not, but I
believe this should be taken into account.
Basically for all elliots faults I do see elliot as someone who actually tries to protect
the space and those around him and I feel that this information is missing from the
conversation about preserving safe space. I believe intent is not irrelevant and to
elliot's mind, I am pretty sure, he is trying to keep the safe space, not make it less
safe. That he does so in a reckless way is bad but the pattern to me seems to be elliot
being overprotective and escalating.
A caveat is most of my information is second-hand, but I felt such circumstances are
germane.
David
On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 4:53 PM, <hol(a)gaskill.com> wrote:
from sudo room articles:
SECTION 2.3 BENEFITS
The following are benefits available to all members:
* Usable assets and resources [2] available within reasonable constraints of time and
under the condition of sharing.
* SUDO ROOM strives to make assets and resources available to as many non-member
participants and beneficiaries as possible.
* Note: no personal property should be stored in SUDO ROOM unless a system for personal
storage can be provided by SUDO ROOM.
* Note: the use of SUDO ROOM environments for habitation and/or domestic use is strongly
discouraged.
* Approved discounts and services negotiated through the collective purchasing power of
SUDO ROOM.
* Items are up to the discretion of SUDO ROOM to determine through its budgeting and
decision-making processes.
* A _safe space,_ which is defined as:
* "A place where anyone can relax and be fully self-expressed, without fear of being
made to feel uncomfortable, unwelcome, or unsafe on account of biological sex,
race/ethnicity, sexual orientation, gender identity or expression, cultural background,
age, or physical or mental ability; a place where the rules guard each person's
self-respect and dignity and strongly encourage everyone to respect others." --
Advocates for Youth via Wikipedia [3].
* A place free of physical violence or threats thereof.
On 2015-01-15 16:21, Stephen Novotny wrote:
yes. I think this is it
https://omnicommons.org/wiki/Safer_Space_Policy#4..E2.80.8E_.E2.80.8FConseq…
[4]
On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 4:18 PM, Karissa McKelvey <krmckelv(a)gmail.com> wrote:
There needs to be clear guidelines surrounding who can access the
commons otherwise the commons deteriorates.
If someone breaks a rule, they should be subject to consequences.
Is there no policy guideline surrounding physical violence in this commons??
On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 1:50 PM, Matthew Senate <mattsenate(a)gmail.com> wrote:
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss [1]
Links:
------
[1] https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
[2]
https://sudoroom.org/wiki/Articles_of_Association/Assets_and_Resources
[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safe-space
[4]
https://omnicommons.org/wiki/Safer_Space_Policy#4..E2.80.8E_.E2.80.8FConseq…
[5] http://500px.com/eske
[6] tel:510.689.4484
[7] https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
[8] http://jennyryan.net
[9] http://sudomesh.org
[10] http://thevirtualcampfire.org
[11] http://technomadic.tumblr.com
Hey all,
I am regularly moved by the sudo room community's compassion.
However, allow me to re-iterate a selection of my original message, facts
and my personal positions that have not changed:
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss [7]
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss [1] this is the second time in our new location (I
was present the first time)
... of Elliot escalating a situation to a physical, even violent, response
on his part.
We must differentiate patterns of behavior from isolated incidents. This is
a pattern, and I think it reasonable to anticipate the risk of repeat
behavior.
I am no longer willing to tolerate this behavior
Nor do I believe anyone should.
[Elliot's continued participation is] ... a
greater cost, and even greater
potential risk, than a revocation of his privilege to use the space.
Consequences are hard to deal with, but we, as individuals, must hold
ourselves and each other responsible for our actions.
It has become more and more obvious to me that when individuals take
advantage of their access to the commons, it is most critical for our
community to act as stewards, to show resolve that such behavior will not be
tolerated, and that paths to reconciliation begin with recognizing that, if
necessary, the privilege to access the commons can, and will, be taken away.
// Matt
On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 1:44 PM, Jenny Ryan <tunabananas(a)gmail.com> wrote:
The path forward for those interested in pursuing this issue is to put it
on the sudoroom meeting agenda, and show up prepared to discuss a proposal.
No one involved in this issue was present at the sudo room meeting last
night. In all honesty we could really use more participation in those
meetings by regular members other than Marc, myself and Matt.
Thanks,
Jenny
On 01/15/2015 11:51 AM, Eske Silver wrote:
Thanks for the comments, and update.
Hopefully we'll figure out how to go about finding a solution for this.
~ Korl
500px.com/eske [5]
510.689.4484 [6]
On Jan 15, 2015 11:47 AM, "Ryan" <yandoryn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> Nothing was brought up at the meeting.
> On Jan 15, 2015 11:47 AM, "Ryan" <yandoryn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I fully support that with no edits, korl. I think it is full of
>> compassion and care for everyone.
>> On Jan 15, 2015 11:44 AM, "Eske Silver" <eske.silver(a)gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Sent this a couple days go, but I forgot to hit 'reply all':
>>>
>>> True, though, that we have parted ways with members, and guests, for
>>> less than [multiple physical incidents?] - comrade or not.
>>> While case-by-case is my prefered language, I also always stand by a
>>> Zero Tolerance for abuse toward another loving being.
>>>
>>> From what I've read, this seems the logical mean answer:
>>> For the sake of Safer Spaces, let's ask that Elliot appreciate a
>>> request
>>> that they take leave, until we find a resolution...
>>> For the sake of nuance and case-by-case, I'd bet we could find
>>> someone
>>> who's known Elliot for a handful of human time increments, who would
>>> be so
>>> kind as to reach out to Elliot. This person might then glean what's
>>> going
>>> on with Elliot, and how he feels we (all) should/can procede with
>>> these
>>> issues.
>>> Then, for the sake of precident, if Elliot is willing and able, we
>>> can
>>> follow the guide and set on to conflict resolution...
>>> The rest is (in theory) easy, I'd say.
>>>
>>> Any edits?
>>>
>>> ~ Korl
>>>
>>> ~ Korl
>>>
>>> 500px.com/eske [5]
>>> 510.689.4484 [6]
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> discuss mailing list
>>> discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
>>> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss [7]
>>>
>>>
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss [7]
--
Jenny
http://jennyryan.net [8]
http://sudomesh.org [9]
http://thevirtualcampfire.org [10]
http://technomadic.tumblr.com [11]
`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
"Technology is the campfire around which we tell our stories."
-Laurie Anderson
"Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the error of defining
it."
-Hannah Arendt
"To define is to kill. To suggest is to create."
-Stéphane Mallarmé
~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss [7] _______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss [1]
12:56 p.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] Elliot Hughes
I have spoken with Eliot about all of this and second David's point - in
all instances Elliot was very much acting out of defense of the space and
the people in it.
After the latest incident, Elliot told me they were committed to refraining
from future use of physical force in the Omni. They were quite serious in
saying this and I don't take them as someone who gives their word lightly.
Personally, I will be at the next sudo meeting to discuss, but I am
inclined to warn rather than ban. Given the situations David described (
some facts off - it was korl, not me who got told off by the drunk dude; in
the latest instance Elliot restrained but did not 'assault' David T), it
seems clear to me he is more committed to maintaining safe space than
threatening it.
Jenny
Help open a people-powered common space in Oakland, California!
https://omnicommons.org/donate
`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
"Technology is the campfire around which we tell our stories."
-Laurie Anderson
"Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the error of defining it."
-Hannah Arendt
"To define is to kill. To suggest is to create."
-Stéphane Mallarmé
~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 5:34 PM, David Keenan <dkeenan44(a)gmail.com> wrote:
To add my voice to the discussion:
- The incidents in this case should not be kept secret but told publicly
to the list. Not that anyone is advancing this, but this should not be a
closed session thing - elliot is part of more communities than sudo, so
lets have the mediator but the circumstances should be public. I don't
think Elliot would object to that.
- May I ask, has elliot already been formally warned against any of this
behavior, or not? It would be good to know.
- It should be noted that in at least 3 of the incidents I know about at
least over the last couple years, the genesis of the incident was Elliot's
attempt to act to protect space and community around him, albiet in an
badly escalating way that I agree is definitely something that has to stop.
Nonetheless I think the intent and circumstance are germane.
For example (to the best of my knowledge here):
The first incident I'm aware of was an altercation with an individual who
if I recall correctly was already banned from another collective, RPS, due
to safe space issues.
In the second instance our landlord back at 2141 set off a bug bomb while
people were working in the space and Elliot forcibly removed it outside.
In the second instance someone jimmied open the door with knife, called
jenny a bitch and had to be escorted out. (This guy had disrupted public
school classes in the past and is a verified creep.)
In the third instance, I hear elliot thought a new sudo applicant (someone
not yet well known in our community) was stealing. Prior to the
altercation, at least one sudo organizer formally expressed concern for
this new member's mental/emotional state. From what I understand its not
clear whether the individual was stealing or not, but I believe this should
be taken into account.
Basically for all elliots faults I do see elliot as someone who actually
tries to protect the space and those around him and I feel that this
information is missing from the conversation about preserving safe space. I
believe intent is not irrelevant and to elliot's mind, I am pretty sure, he
is trying to keep the safe space, not make it less safe. That he does so in
a reckless way is bad but the pattern to me seems to be elliot being
overprotective and escalating.
A caveat is most of my information is second-hand, but I felt such
circumstances are germane.
David
On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 4:53 PM, <hol(a)gaskill.com> wrote:
from sudo room articles:
Section 2.3 Benefits
The following are benefits available to all members:
- Usable assets and resources
<https://sudoroom.org/wiki/Articles_of_Association/Assets_and_Resources>
available within reasonable constraints of time and under the condition of
sharing.
- *sudo room* strives to make assets and resources available to as
many non-member participants and beneficiaries as possible.
- Note: no personal property should be stored in *sudo room*
unless a system for personal storage can be provided by *sudo room*
.
- Note: the use of *sudo room* environments for habitation and/or
domestic use is strongly discouraged.
- Approved discounts and services negotiated through the collective
purchasing power of *sudo room*.
- Items are up to the discretion of *sudo room* to determine
through its budgeting and decision-making processes.
- A *safe space,* which is defined as:
- "A place where anyone can relax and be fully self-expressed,
without fear of being made to feel uncomfortable, unwelcome, or unsafe on
account of biological sex, race/ethnicity, sexual orientation, gender
identity or expression, cultural background, age, or physical or mental
ability; a place where the rules guard each person's self-respect and
dignity and strongly encourage everyone to respect others." —
Advocates for Youth via Wikipedia
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safe-space>.
- A place free of physical violence or threats thereof.
On 2015-01-15 16:21, Stephen Novotny wrote:
yes. I think this is it
https://omnicommons.org/wiki/Safer_Space_Policy#4..E2.80.8E_.E2.80.8FConseq…
On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 4:18 PM, Karissa McKelvey <krmckelv(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
There needs to be clear guidelines surrounding
who can access the
commons otherwise the commons deteriorates.
If someone breaks a rule, they should be subject to consequences.
Is there no policy guideline surrounding physical violence in this
commons??
On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 1:50 PM, Matthew Senate <mattsenate(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing
listsudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.orghttps://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
Hey all,
I am regularly moved by the sudo room community's compassion.
However, allow me to re-iterate a selection of my original message,
facts
and my personal positions that have not changed:
> this is the second time in our new location (I was present the first
time)
> ... of Elliot escalating a situation to a
physical, even violent,
response
> on his part.
We must differentiate patterns of behavior from isolated incidents.
This is
a pattern, and I think it reasonable to
anticipate the risk of repeat
behavior.
> I am no longer willing to tolerate this behavior
Nor do I believe anyone should.
> [Elliot's continued participation is] ... a greater cost, and even
greater
> potential risk, than a revocation of his
privilege to use the space.
Consequences are hard to deal with, but we, as individuals, must hold
ourselves and each other responsible for our actions.
It has become more and more obvious to me that when individuals take
advantage of their access to the commons, it is most critical for our
community to act as stewards, to show resolve that such behavior will
not be
tolerated, and that paths to reconciliation begin
with recognizing
that, if
necessary, the privilege to access the commons
can, and will, be taken
away.
// Matt
On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 1:44 PM, Jenny Ryan <tunabananas(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> The path forward for those interested in pursuing this issue is to
put it
> on the sudoroom meeting agenda, and show up
prepared to discuss a
proposal.
> No one involved in this issue was present at
the sudo room meeting
last
> night. In all honesty we could really use
more participation in those
> meetings by regular members other than Marc, myself and Matt.
>
> Thanks,
> Jenny
>
> On 01/15/2015 11:51 AM, Eske Silver wrote:
> > Thanks for the comments, and update.
> > Hopefully we'll figure out how to go about finding a solution for
this.
> >
> > ~ Korl
> >
> > 500px.com/eske
> > 510.689.4484
> > On Jan 15, 2015 11:47 AM, "Ryan" <yandoryn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Nothing was brought up at the meeting.
> > > On Jan 15, 2015 11:47 AM, "Ryan" <yandoryn(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> > >
> > >> I fully support that with no edits, korl. I think it is full of
> > >> compassion and care for everyone.
> > >> On Jan 15, 2015 11:44 AM, "Eske Silver"
<eske.silver(a)gmail.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Sent this a couple days go, but I forgot to hit 'reply
all':
> > >>>
> > >>> True, though, that we have parted ways with members, and
guests, for
> > >>> less than [multiple
physical incidents?] - comrade or not.
> > >>> While case-by-case is my prefered language, I also always stand
by a
> > >>> Zero Tolerance for abuse
toward another loving being.
> > >>>
> > >>> From what I've read, this seems the logical mean answer:
> > >>> For the sake of Safer Spaces, let's ask that Elliot appreciate
a
> > >>> request
> > >>> that they take leave, until we find a resolution...
> > >>> For the sake of nuance and case-by-case, I'd bet we could find
> > >>> someone
> > >>> who's known Elliot for a handful of human time increments, who
would
> > >>> be so
> > >>> kind as to reach out to Elliot. This person might then glean
what's
> > >>> going
> > >>> on with Elliot, and how he feels we (all) should/can procede
with
> > >>> these
> > >>> issues.
> > >>> Then, for the sake of precident, if Elliot is willing and able,
we
> > >>> can
> > >>> follow the guide and set on to conflict resolution...
> > >>> The rest is (in theory) easy, I'd say.
> > >>>
> > >>> Any edits?
> > >>>
> > >>> ~ Korl
> > >>>
> > >>> ~ Korl
> > >>>
> > >>> 500px.com/eske
> > >>> 510.689.4484
> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> discuss mailing list
> > >>> discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
> > >>> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
> > >>>
> > >>>
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > discuss mailing list
> > discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
> > https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
> >
>
>
> --
>
> Jenny
> http://jennyryan.net
> http://sudomesh.org
> http://thevirtualcampfire.org
> http://technomadic.tumblr.com
>
> `~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
> "Technology is the campfire around which we tell our stories."
> -Laurie Anderson
>
> "Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the error of defining
> it."
> -Hannah Arendt
>
> "To define is to kill. To suggest is to create."
> -Stéphane Mallarmé
> ~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
> _______________________________________________
> discuss mailing list
> discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
4:55 p.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] Elliot Hughes
When I was corrected for calling Elliot my comrade I
thought well I don't know, yet, what happened with them
so sould I trust others (as I have been advised to in the past)
and no longer consider them a comrade. It didn't feel right;
and I think that is why his banning feels so strange to me.
Then, finally, at post # 24 DK adds some important specifics.
So I am requesting that the Sudoroom meeting where Elliot' s
banning is discussed be announced on Discuss well in advance of
it's happening.
Tahnks
joe
On Jan 15, 2015, at 11:44 AM, Eske Silver wrote:
Sent this a couple days go, but I forgot to hit
'reply all':
True, though, that we have parted ways with members, and guests, for less than [multiple
physical incidents?] - comrade or not.
While case-by-case is my prefered language, I also always stand by a Zero Tolerance for
abuse toward another loving being.
From what I've read, this seems the logical mean answer:
For the sake of Safer Spaces, let's ask that Elliot appreciate a request that they
take leave, until we find a resolution...
For the sake of nuance and case-by-case, I'd bet we could find someone who's
known Elliot for a handful of human time increments, who would be so kind as to reach out
to Elliot. This person might then glean what's going on with Elliot, and how he feels
we (all) should/can procede with these issues.
Then, for the sake of precident, if Elliot is willing and able, we can follow the guide
and set on to conflict resolution...
The rest is (in theory) easy, I'd say.
Any edits?
~ Korl
~ Korl
500px.com/eske
510.689.4484
4:59 p.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] Elliot Hughes
Sudo's meetings are at the same time, the same place, every week.
Wednesday, 7 pm, Sudo Room.
Matt just said that he's going to bring it up at the next meeting.
On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 4:55 PM, joseph liesner <blue393(a)lmi.net> wrote:
When I was corrected for calling Elliot my comrade I
thought well I don't know, yet, what happened with them
so sould I trust others (as I have been advised to in the past)
and no longer consider them a comrade. It didn't feel right;
and I think that is why his banning feels so strange to me.
Then, finally, at post # 24 DK adds some important specifics.
So I am requesting that the Sudoroom meeting where Elliot' s
banning is discussed be announced on Discuss well in advance of
it's happening.
Tahnks
joe
On Jan 15, 2015, at 11:44 AM, Eske Silver wrote:
Sent this a couple days go, but I forgot to hit 'reply all':
True, though, that we have parted ways with members, and guests, for less
than [multiple physical incidents?] - comrade or not.
While case-by-case is my prefered language, I also always stand by a Zero
Tolerance for abuse toward another loving being.
From what I've read, this seems the logical mean answer:
For the sake of Safer Spaces, let's ask that Elliot appreciate a request
that they take leave, until we find a resolution...
For the sake of nuance and case-by-case, I'd bet we could find someone
who's known Elliot for a handful of human time increments, who would be so
kind as to reach out to Elliot. This person might then glean what's going
on with Elliot, and how he feels we (all) should/can procede with these
issues.
Then, for the sake of precident, if Elliot is willing and able, we can
follow the guide and set on to conflict resolution...
The rest is (in theory) easy, I'd say.
Any edits?
~ Korl
~ Korl
500px.com/eske
510.689.4484
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
17 Jan
17 Jan
11:05 a.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] Elliot Hughes
Elliot was not involved in the incident where I interacted with the
intoxicated person who had a knife in the door, and was verbally abusive.
I enjoy the telephone game, same as anyone, but it seems this is one story
worthy of clarification.
The drunky, Pidgeon, Noah, one other sudoer, and I were there.
~ Korl
500px.com/eske
510.689.4484
On Jan 16, 2015 4:59 PM, "Ryan" <yandoryn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Sudo's meetings are at the same time, the same
place, every week.
Wednesday, 7 pm, Sudo Room.
Matt just said that he's going to bring it up at the next meeting.
On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 4:55 PM, joseph liesner <blue393(a)lmi.net> wrote:
When I was corrected for calling Elliot my
comrade I
thought well I don't know, yet, what happened with them
so sould I trust others (as I have been advised to in the past)
and no longer consider them a comrade. It didn't feel right;
and I think that is why his banning feels so strange to me.
Then, finally, at post # 24 DK adds some important specifics.
So I am requesting that the Sudoroom meeting where Elliot' s
banning is discussed be announced on Discuss well in advance of
it's happening.
Tahnks
joe
On Jan 15, 2015, at 11:44 AM, Eske Silver wrote:
Sent this a couple days go, but I forgot to hit 'reply all':
True, though, that we have parted ways with members, and guests, for less
than [multiple physical incidents?] - comrade or not.
While case-by-case is my prefered language, I also always stand by a Zero
Tolerance for abuse toward another loving being.
From what I've read, this seems the logical mean answer:
For the sake of Safer Spaces, let's ask that Elliot appreciate a request
that they take leave, until we find a resolution...
For the sake of nuance and case-by-case, I'd bet we could find someone
who's known Elliot for a handful of human time increments, who would be so
kind as to reach out to Elliot. This person might then glean what's going
on with Elliot, and how he feels we (all) should/can procede with these
issues.
Then, for the sake of precident, if Elliot is willing and able, we can
follow the guide and set on to conflict resolution...
The rest is (in theory) easy, I'd say.
Any edits?
~ Korl
~ Korl
500px.com/eske
510.689.4484
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
12:35 p.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] Elliot Hughes
I never heard about this incident.
Can we create a place to report these kinds of things - maybe a separate
list.
I think it's important that the community is alerted when stuff like this
happens.
Did I miss something, maybe? Sorry!
N
On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 11:05 AM, Eske Silver <eske.silver(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Elliot was not involved in the incident where I
interacted with the
intoxicated person who had a knife in the door, and was verbally abusive.
I enjoy the telephone game, same as anyone, but it seems this is one story
worthy of clarification.
The drunky, Pidgeon, Noah, one other sudoer, and I were there.
~ Korl
500px.com/eske
510.689.4484
On Jan 16, 2015 4:59 PM, "Ryan" <yandoryn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Sudo's meetings are at the same time, the
same place, every week.
Wednesday, 7 pm, Sudo Room.
Matt just said that he's going to bring it up at the next meeting.
On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 4:55 PM, joseph liesner <blue393(a)lmi.net> wrote:
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
When I was corrected for calling Elliot my
comrade I
thought well I don't know, yet, what happened with them
so sould I trust others (as I have been advised to in the past)
and no longer consider them a comrade. It didn't feel right;
and I think that is why his banning feels so strange to me.
Then, finally, at post # 24 DK adds some important specifics.
So I am requesting that the Sudoroom meeting where Elliot' s
banning is discussed be announced on Discuss well in advance of
it's happening.
Tahnks
joe
On Jan 15, 2015, at 11:44 AM, Eske Silver wrote:
Sent this a couple days go, but I forgot to hit 'reply all':
True, though, that we have parted ways with members, and guests, for
less than [multiple physical incidents?] - comrade or not.
While case-by-case is my prefered language, I also always stand by a
Zero Tolerance for abuse toward another loving being.
From what I've read, this seems the logical mean answer:
For the sake of Safer Spaces, let's ask that Elliot appreciate a request
that they take leave, until we find a resolution...
For the sake of nuance and case-by-case, I'd bet we could find someone
who's known Elliot for a handful of human time increments, who would be so
kind as to reach out to Elliot. This person might then glean what's going
on with Elliot, and how he feels we (all) should/can procede with these
issues.
Then, for the sake of precident, if Elliot is willing and able, we can
follow the guide and set on to conflict resolution...
The rest is (in theory) easy, I'd say.
Any edits?
~ Korl
~ Korl
500px.com/eske
510.689.4484
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
2:40 p.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] Elliot Hughes
Hmm...
Then there was a second incident, because I did get confirmation that
Elliot 'walked out' a guy who jimmied open the door with a knife - I got
that confirmation from the person who was walked out and yelled at me about
it, so I'm pretty sure that happened..
On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 12:35 PM, niki <niki.shelley(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I never heard about this incident.
Can we create a place to report these kinds of things - maybe a separate
list.
I think it's important that the community is alerted when stuff like this
happens.
Did I miss something, maybe? Sorry!
N
On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 11:05 AM, Eske Silver <eske.silver(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Elliot was not involved in the incident where I
interacted with the
intoxicated person who had a knife in the door, and was verbally abusive.
I enjoy the telephone game, same as anyone, but it seems this is one
story worthy of clarification.
The drunky, Pidgeon, Noah, one other sudoer, and I were there.
~ Korl
500px.com/eske
510.689.4484
On Jan 16, 2015 4:59 PM, "Ryan" <yandoryn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
Sudo's meetings are at the same time, the
same place, every week.
Wednesday, 7 pm, Sudo Room.
Matt just said that he's going to bring it up at the next meeting.
On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 4:55 PM, joseph liesner <blue393(a)lmi.net> wrote:
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
When I was corrected for calling Elliot my
comrade I
thought well I don't know, yet, what happened with them
so sould I trust others (as I have been advised to in the past)
and no longer consider them a comrade. It didn't feel right;
and I think that is why his banning feels so strange to me.
Then, finally, at post # 24 DK adds some important specifics.
So I am requesting that the Sudoroom meeting where Elliot' s
banning is discussed be announced on Discuss well in advance of
it's happening.
Tahnks
joe
On Jan 15, 2015, at 11:44 AM, Eske Silver wrote:
Sent this a couple days go, but I forgot to hit 'reply all':
True, though, that we have parted ways with members, and guests, for
less than [multiple physical incidents?] - comrade or not.
While case-by-case is my prefered language, I also always stand by a
Zero Tolerance for abuse toward another loving being.
From what I've read, this seems the logical mean answer:
For the sake of Safer Spaces, let's ask that Elliot appreciate a
request that they take leave, until we find a resolution...
For the sake of nuance and case-by-case, I'd bet we could find someone
who's known Elliot for a handful of human time increments, who would be so
kind as to reach out to Elliot. This person might then glean what's going
on with Elliot, and how he feels we (all) should/can procede with these
issues.
Then, for the sake of precident, if Elliot is willing and able, we can
follow the guide and set on to conflict resolution...
The rest is (in theory) easy, I'd say.
Any edits?
~ Korl
~ Korl
500px.com/eske
510.689.4484
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
4:37 p.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] Elliot Hughes
Point of clarification:
The drunk who jimmied the lock came back for the weekend-long fundraiser kickoff. Marc
informed him that he was not allowed in the space, and he got upset and wouldn't
leave. We called all hands on deck and surrounded him but he still wouldn't leave.
Then Elliot came along, grabbed him by the shoulders, and threw him out the door.
He apologized afterwards and said something to the effect of, "that guy's a total
asshole and was just going to waste our time."
On 01/17/2015 02:40 PM, David Keenan wrote:
Hmm...
Then there was a second incident, because I did get confirmation that
Elliot 'walked out' a guy who jimmied open the door with a knife - I got
that confirmation from the person who was walked out and yelled at me about
it, so I'm pretty sure that happened..
On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 12:35 PM, niki <niki.shelley(a)gmail.com> wrote:
--
Jenny
http://jennyryan.net
http://sudomesh.org
http://thevirtualcampfire.org
http://technomadic.tumblr.com
`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
"Technology is the campfire around which we tell our stories."
-Laurie Anderson
"Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the error of defining it."
-Hannah Arendt
"To define is to kill. To suggest is to create."
-Stéphane Mallarmé
~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
I never heard about this incident.
Can we create a place to report these kinds of things - maybe a separate
list.
I think it's important that the community is alerted when stuff like this
happens.
Did I miss something, maybe? Sorry!
N
On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 11:05 AM, Eske Silver <eske.silver(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
Elliot was not involved in the incident where I
interacted with the
intoxicated person who had a knife in the door, and was verbally abusive.
I enjoy the telephone game, same as anyone, but it seems this is one
story worthy of clarification.
The drunky, Pidgeon, Noah, one other sudoer, and I were there.
~ Korl
500px.com/eske
510.689.4484
On Jan 16, 2015 4:59 PM, "Ryan" <yandoryn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
Sudo's meetings are at the same time, the
same place, every week.
Wednesday, 7 pm, Sudo Room.
Matt just said that he's going to bring it up at the next meeting.
On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 4:55 PM, joseph liesner <blue393(a)lmi.net> wrote:
> When I was corrected for calling Elliot my comrade I
> thought well I don't know, yet, what happened with them
> so sould I trust others (as I have been advised to in the past)
> and no longer consider them a comrade. It didn't feel right;
> and I think that is why his banning feels so strange to me.
> Then, finally, at post # 24 DK adds some important specifics.
> So I am requesting that the Sudoroom meeting where Elliot' s
> banning is discussed be announced on Discuss well in advance of
> it's happening.
> Tahnks
> joe
> On Jan 15, 2015, at 11:44 AM, Eske Silver wrote:
>
> Sent this a couple days go, but I forgot to hit 'reply all':
>
> True, though, that we have parted ways with members, and guests, for
> less than [multiple physical incidents?] - comrade or not.
> While case-by-case is my prefered language, I also always stand by a
> Zero Tolerance for abuse toward another loving being.
>
> From what I've read, this seems the logical mean answer:
> For the sake of Safer Spaces, let's ask that Elliot appreciate a
> request that they take leave, until we find a resolution...
> For the sake of nuance and case-by-case, I'd bet we could find someone
> who's known Elliot for a handful of human time increments, who would be so
> kind as to reach out to Elliot. This person might then glean what's going
> on with Elliot, and how he feels we (all) should/can procede with these
> issues.
> Then, for the sake of precident, if Elliot is willing and able, we can
> follow the guide and set on to conflict resolution...
> The rest is (in theory) easy, I'd say.
>
> Any edits?
>
> ~ Korl
>
> ~ Korl
>
> 500px.com/eske
> 510.689.4484
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sudo-discuss mailing list
> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>
>
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
18 Jan
18 Jan
1:26 a.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] Elliot Hughes
Thanks Jenny.
We most definitely should have a place for all of these incidents to be
available, that's more easily accessible to everyone.
Maybe we can simply adapt our own format of the ban page from NoiseBridges
site? Sone kind of wiki page where all of this info can be housed. For our
own FYI and the consolidation of interactions (would definitely help with
miscomms and clarifications like those above), but also for public
awareness (STP.org has had really good response from a similar
"Untrustworthy People" page).
It could also be a good tool for mediation; for parties involved to be able
to see incident testimony, etc.
Shouldn't be too dificult to set up, right?
To start, I can write up a full testimony of my interaction with drunky,
and already have a copy involving the 4am-squatter* in the sudomtg
archives. I know there are a few other testimonies in there, as well.
Should I rewrite this as a new thread to omni discuss? What else do we have
in place, so far, along these lines (besides sudo ban wiki, etc).
Perhaps the most accessible version of this could be a direct-link via the
front door terminal (anyone know why it's sitting idle in Sudo?).
~ Korl
500px.com/eske
510.689.4484
On Jan 17, 2015 4:37 PM, "Jenny Ryan" <tunabananas(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Point of clarification:
The drunk who jimmied the lock came back for the weekend-long fundraiser
kickoff. Marc informed him that he was not allowed in the space, and he got
upset and wouldn't leave. We called all hands on deck and surrounded him
but he still wouldn't leave. Then Elliot came along, grabbed him by the
shoulders, and threw him out the door.
He apologized afterwards and said something to the effect of, "that guy's
a total asshole and was just going to waste our time."
On 01/17/2015 02:40 PM, David Keenan wrote:
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
--
Jenny
http://jennyryan.net
http://sudomesh.org
http://thevirtualcampfire.org
http://technomadic.tumblr.com
`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
"Technology is the campfire around which we tell our stories."
-Laurie Anderson
"Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the error of defining it."
-Hannah Arendt
"To define is to kill. To suggest is to create."
-Stéphane Mallarmé
~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
Hmm...
Then there was a second incident, because I did get confirmation that
Elliot 'walked out' a guy who jimmied open the door with a knife - I got
that confirmation from the person who was walked out and yelled at me
about
it, so I'm pretty sure that happened..
On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 12:35 PM, niki <niki.shelley(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> I never heard about this incident.
>
> Can we create a place to report these kinds of things - maybe a
separate
> list.
>
> I think it's important that the community is alerted when stuff like
this
> happens.
>
> Did I miss something, maybe? Sorry!
>
> N
>
> On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 11:05 AM, Eske Silver <eske.silver(a)gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Elliot was not involved in the incident where I interacted with the
>> intoxicated person who had a knife in the door, and was verbally
abusive.
>> I enjoy the telephone game, same as
anyone, but it seems this is one
>> story worthy of clarification.
>> The drunky, Pidgeon, Noah, one other sudoer, and I were there.
>>
>> ~ Korl
>>
>> 500px.com/eske
>> 510.689.4484
>> On Jan 16, 2015 4:59 PM, "Ryan" <yandoryn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Sudo's meetings are at the same time, the same place, every week.
>>> Wednesday, 7 pm, Sudo Room.
>>>
>>> Matt just said that he's going to bring it up at the next meeting.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 4:55 PM, joseph liesner <blue393(a)lmi.net>
wrote:
>>>
>>>> When I was corrected for calling Elliot my comrade I
>>>> thought well I don't know, yet, what happened with them
>>>> so sould I trust others (as I have been advised to in the past)
>>>> and no longer consider them a comrade. It didn't feel right;
>>>> and I think that is why his banning feels so strange to me.
>>>> Then, finally, at post # 24 DK adds some important specifics.
>>>> So I am requesting that the Sudoroom meeting where Elliot' s
>>>> banning is discussed be announced on Discuss well in advance of
>>>> it's happening.
>>>> Tahnks
>>>> joe
>>>> On Jan 15, 2015, at 11:44 AM, Eske Silver wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Sent this a couple days go, but I forgot to hit 'reply all':
>>>>
>>>> True, though, that we have parted ways with members, and guests, for
>>>> less than [multiple physical incidents?] - comrade or not.
>>>> While case-by-case is my prefered language, I also always stand by a
>>>> Zero Tolerance for abuse toward another loving being.
>>>>
>>>> From what I've read, this seems the logical mean answer:
>>>> For the sake of Safer Spaces, let's ask that Elliot appreciate a
>>>> request that they take leave, until we find a resolution...
>>>> For the sake of nuance and case-by-case, I'd bet we could find
someone
>>>> who's known Elliot for a
handful of human time increments, who
would be so
>>>> kind as to reach out to Elliot.
This person might then glean what's
going
>>>> on with Elliot, and how he feels
we (all) should/can procede with
these
>>>> issues.
>>>> Then, for the sake of precident, if Elliot is willing and able, we
can
>> follow the guide and set on to conflict
resolution...
>> The rest is (in theory) easy, I'd say.
>>
>> Any edits?
>>
>> ~ Korl
>>
>> ~ Korl
>>
>> 500px.com/eske
>> 510.689.4484
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>
>>
>
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
10:32 a.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] Elliot Hughes
Why not just make a new page on the omnicommons.org wiki?
On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 1:26 AM, Eske Silver <eske.silver(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Jenny.
We most definitely should have a place for all of these incidents to be
available, that's more easily accessible to everyone.
Maybe we can simply adapt our own format of the ban page from NoiseBridges
site? Sone kind of wiki page where all of this info can be housed. For our
own FYI and the consolidation of interactions (would definitely help with
miscomms and clarifications like those above), but also for public
awareness (STP.org has had really good response from a similar
"Untrustworthy People" page).
It could also be a good tool for mediation; for parties involved to be
able to see incident testimony, etc.
Shouldn't be too dificult to set up, right?
To start, I can write up a full testimony of my interaction with drunky,
and already have a copy involving the 4am-squatter* in the sudomtg
archives. I know there are a few other testimonies in there, as well.
Should I rewrite this as a new thread to omni discuss? What else do we
have in place, so far, along these lines (besides sudo ban wiki, etc).
Perhaps the most accessible version of this could be a direct-link via the
front door terminal (anyone know why it's sitting idle in Sudo?).
~ Korl
500px.com/eske
510.689.4484
On Jan 17, 2015 4:37 PM, "Jenny Ryan" <tunabananas(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Point of clarification:
The drunk who jimmied the lock came back for the weekend-long fundraiser
kickoff. Marc informed him that he was not allowed in the space, and he got
upset and wouldn't leave. We called all hands on deck and surrounded him
but he still wouldn't leave. Then Elliot came along, grabbed him by the
shoulders, and threw him out the door.
He apologized afterwards and said something to the effect of, "that guy's
a total asshole and was just going to waste our time."
On 01/17/2015 02:40 PM, David Keenan wrote:
--
Jenny
http://jennyryan.net
http://sudomesh.org
http://thevirtualcampfire.org
http://technomadic.tumblr.com
`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
"Technology is the campfire around which we tell our stories."
-Laurie Anderson
"Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the error of defining
it."
-Hannah Arendt
"To define is to kill. To suggest is to create."
-Stéphane Mallarmé
~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
Hmm...
Then there was a second incident, because I did get confirmation that
Elliot 'walked out' a guy who jimmied open the door with a knife - I got
that confirmation from the person who was walked out and yelled at me
about
it, so I'm pretty sure that happened..
On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 12:35 PM, niki <niki.shelley(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> I never heard about this incident.
>
> Can we create a place to report these kinds of things - maybe a
separate
> list.
>
> I think it's important that the community is alerted when stuff like
this
> happens.
>
> Did I miss something, maybe? Sorry!
>
> N
>
> On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 11:05 AM, Eske Silver <eske.silver(a)gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Elliot was not involved in the incident where I interacted with the
>> intoxicated person who had a knife in the door, and was verbally
abusive.
>> I enjoy the telephone game, same as
anyone, but it seems this is one
>> story worthy of clarification.
>> The drunky, Pidgeon, Noah, one other sudoer, and I were there.
>>
>> ~ Korl
>>
>> 500px.com/eske
>> 510.689.4484
>> On Jan 16, 2015 4:59 PM, "Ryan" <yandoryn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Sudo's meetings are at the same time, the same place, every week.
>>> Wednesday, 7 pm, Sudo Room.
>>>
>>> Matt just said that he's going to bring it up at the next meeting.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 4:55 PM, joseph liesner <blue393(a)lmi.net>
wrote:
>>>
>>>> When I was corrected for calling Elliot my comrade I
>>>> thought well I don't know, yet, what happened with them
>>>> so sould I trust others (as I have been advised to in the past)
>>>> and no longer consider them a comrade. It didn't feel right;
>>>> and I think that is why his banning feels so strange to me.
>>>> Then, finally, at post # 24 DK adds some important specifics.
>>>> So I am requesting that the Sudoroom meeting where Elliot' s
>>>> banning is discussed be announced on Discuss well in advance of
>>>> it's happening.
>>>> Tahnks
>>>> joe
>>>> On Jan 15, 2015, at 11:44 AM, Eske Silver wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Sent this a couple days go, but I forgot to hit 'reply all':
>>>>
>>>> True, though, that we have parted ways with members, and guests,
for
>>>> less than [multiple physical
incidents?] - comrade or not.
>>>> While case-by-case is my prefered language, I also always stand by
a
>>>> Zero Tolerance for abuse toward
another loving being.
>>>>
>>>> From what I've read, this seems the logical mean answer:
>>>> For the sake of Safer Spaces, let's ask that Elliot appreciate a
>>>> request that they take leave, until we find a resolution...
>>>> For the sake of nuance and case-by-case, I'd bet we could find
someone
>>>> who's known Elliot for a
handful of human time increments, who
would be so
>>>> kind as to reach out to Elliot.
This person might then glean
what's going
>>>> on with Elliot, and how he feels
we (all) should/can procede with
these
>>>> issues.
>>>> Then, for the sake of precident, if Elliot is willing and able, we
can
>>> follow the guide and set on to conflict resolution...
>>> The rest is (in theory) easy, I'd say.
>>>
>>> Any edits?
>>>
>>> ~ Korl
>>>
>>> ~ Korl
>>>
>>> 500px.com/eske
>>> 510.689.4484
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>
>>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> discuss mailing list
> discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
>
>
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
11:09 a.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] Elliot Hughes
Sitemod:
Can we make it so it's not burried? Not necessarily on the front page, but
somewhere intuitively easy to find?
~ Korl
500px.com/eske
510.689.4484
On Jan 18, 2015 10:32 AM, "niki" <niki.shelley(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Why not just make a new page on the omnicommons.org
wiki?
On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 1:26 AM, Eske Silver <eske.silver(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Thanks Jenny.
We most definitely should have a place for all of these incidents to be
available, that's more easily accessible to everyone.
Maybe we can simply adapt our own format of the ban page from
NoiseBridges site? Sone kind of wiki page where all of this info can be
housed. For our own FYI and the consolidation of interactions (would
definitely help with miscomms and clarifications like those above), but
also for public awareness (STP.org has had really good response from a
similar "Untrustworthy People" page).
It could also be a good tool for mediation; for parties involved to be
able to see incident testimony, etc.
Shouldn't be too dificult to set up, right?
To start, I can write up a full testimony of my interaction with drunky,
and already have a copy involving the 4am-squatter* in the sudomtg
archives. I know there are a few other testimonies in there, as well.
Should I rewrite this as a new thread to omni discuss? What else do we
have in place, so far, along these lines (besides sudo ban wiki, etc).
Perhaps the most accessible version of this could be a direct-link via
the front door terminal (anyone know why it's sitting idle in Sudo?).
~ Korl
500px.com/eske
510.689.4484
On Jan 17, 2015 4:37 PM, "Jenny Ryan" <tunabananas(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Point of clarification:
The drunk who jimmied the lock came back for the weekend-long fundraiser
kickoff. Marc informed him that he was not allowed in the space, and he got
upset and wouldn't leave. We called all hands on deck and surrounded him
but he still wouldn't leave. Then Elliot came along, grabbed him by the
shoulders, and threw him out the door.
He apologized afterwards and said something to the effect of, "that
guy's a total asshole and was just going to waste our time."
On 01/17/2015 02:40 PM, David Keenan wrote:
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
Hmm...
Then there was a second incident, because I did get confirmation that
Elliot 'walked out' a guy who jimmied open the door with a knife - I
got
that confirmation from the person who was walked
out and yelled at me
about
it, so I'm pretty sure that happened..
On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 12:35 PM, niki <niki.shelley(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> I never heard about this incident.
>
> Can we create a place to report these kinds of things - maybe a
separate
> list.
>
> I think it's important that the community is alerted when stuff like
this
> happens.
>
> Did I miss something, maybe? Sorry!
>
> N
>
> On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 11:05 AM, Eske Silver <eske.silver(a)gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>> Elliot was not involved in the incident where I interacted with the
>> intoxicated person who had a knife in the door, and was verbally
abusive.
>> I enjoy the telephone game, same as
anyone, but it seems this is one
>> story worthy of clarification.
>> The drunky, Pidgeon, Noah, one other sudoer, and I were there.
>>
>> ~ Korl
>>
>> 500px.com/eske
>> 510.689.4484
>> On Jan 16, 2015 4:59 PM, "Ryan" <yandoryn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Sudo's meetings are at the same time, the same place, every week.
>>> Wednesday, 7 pm, Sudo Room.
>>>
>>> Matt just said that he's going to bring it up at the next meeting.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 4:55 PM, joseph liesner <blue393(a)lmi.net>
wrote:
>>>
>>>> When I was corrected for calling Elliot my comrade I
>>>> thought well I don't know, yet, what happened with them
>>>> so sould I trust others (as I have been advised to in the past)
>>>> and no longer consider them a comrade. It didn't feel right;
>>>> and I think that is why his banning feels so strange to me.
>>>> Then, finally, at post # 24 DK adds some important specifics.
>>>> So I am requesting that the Sudoroom meeting where Elliot' s
>>>> banning is discussed be announced on Discuss well in advance of
>>>> it's happening.
>>>> Tahnks
>>>> joe
>>>> On Jan 15, 2015, at 11:44 AM, Eske Silver wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Sent this a couple days go, but I forgot to hit 'reply all':
>>>>
>>>> True, though, that we have parted ways with members, and guests,
for
>>>> less than [multiple physical
incidents?] - comrade or not.
>>>> While case-by-case is my prefered language, I also always stand
by a
>>>> Zero Tolerance for abuse toward
another loving being.
>>>>
>>>> From what I've read, this seems the logical mean answer:
>>>> For the sake of Safer Spaces, let's ask that Elliot appreciate a
>>>> request that they take leave, until we find a resolution...
>>>> For the sake of nuance and case-by-case, I'd bet we could find
someone
>>>> who's known Elliot for a
handful of human time increments, who
would be so
>>>> kind as to reach out to Elliot.
This person might then glean
what's going
>>>> on with Elliot, and how he feels
we (all) should/can procede with
these
>>>> issues.
>>>> Then, for the sake of precident, if Elliot is willing and able,
we can
>>>> follow the guide and set on to
conflict resolution...
>>>> The rest is (in theory) easy, I'd say.
>>>>
>>>> Any edits?
>>>>
>>>> ~ Korl
>>>>
>>>> ~ Korl
>>>>
>>>> 500px.com/eske
>>>> 510.689.4484
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
>>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> discuss mailing list
>> discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
>> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> discuss mailing list
> discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
>
>
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
--
Jenny
http://jennyryan.net
http://sudomesh.org
http://thevirtualcampfire.org
http://technomadic.tumblr.com
`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
"Technology is the campfire around which we tell our stories."
-Laurie Anderson
"Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the error of defining
it."
-Hannah Arendt
"To define is to kill. To suggest is to create."
-Stéphane Mallarmé
~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
12:52 p.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] Elliot Hughes
On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 11:09 AM, Eske Silver <eske.silver(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Sitemod:
Can we make it so it's not burried? Not necessarily on the front page, but
somewhere intuitively easy to find?
We also have this page:
https://sudoroom.org/wiki/Bans
--
marc/juul
12:54 p.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] Elliot Hughes
Not all Omnians frequent the sudo wiki, though. We need something
commons-wide.
Who is maintaining the site, currently?
~ Korl
500px.com/eske
510.689.4484
On Jan 18, 2015 12:52 PM, "Marc Juul" <juul(a)labitat.dk> wrote:
On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 11:09 AM, Eske Silver <eske.silver(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Sitemod:
Can we make it so it's not burried? Not necessarily on the front page,
but somewhere intuitively easy to find?
We also have this page:
https://sudoroom.org/wiki/Bans
--
marc/juul
2:53 p.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] Elliot Hughes
I made this page awhile back. Y'all are welcome to add to it:
https://omnicommons.org/wiki/Bans
On 01/18/2015 12:54 PM, Eske Silver wrote:
Not all Omnians frequent the sudo wiki, though. We
need something
commons-wide.
Who is maintaining the site, currently?
~ Korl
500px.com/eske
510.689.4484
On Jan 18, 2015 12:52 PM, "Marc Juul" <juul(a)labitat.dk> wrote:
--
Jenny
http://jennyryan.net
http://sudomesh.org
http://thevirtualcampfire.org
http://technomadic.tumblr.com
`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
"Technology is the campfire around which we tell our stories."
-Laurie Anderson
"Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the error of defining it."
-Hannah Arendt
"To define is to kill. To suggest is to create."
-Stéphane Mallarmé
~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 11:09 AM, Eske Silver <eske.silver(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
Sitemod:
Can we make it so it's not burried? Not necessarily on the front page,
but somewhere intuitively easy to find?
We also have this page:
https://sudoroom.org/wiki/Bans
--
marc/juul
2:57 p.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] Elliot Hughes
Jenny's on the ball!
~ Eske
On Jan 18, 2015, 2:53 PM, at 2:53 PM, Jenny Ryan <tunabananas(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I made this page awhile back. Y'all are welcome to
add to it:
https://omnicommons.org/wiki/Bans
On 01/18/2015 12:54 PM, Eske Silver wrote:
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
--
Jenny
http://jennyryan.net
http://sudomesh.org
http://thevirtualcampfire.org
http://technomadic.tumblr.com
`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
"Technology is the campfire around which we tell our stories."
-Laurie Anderson
"Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the error of defining
it."
-Hannah Arendt
"To define is to kill. To suggest is to create."
-Stéphane Mallarmé
~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
Not all Omnians frequent the sudo wiki, though.
We need something
commons-wide.
Who is maintaining the site, currently?
~ Korl
500px.com/eske
510.689.4484
On Jan 18, 2015 12:52 PM, "Marc Juul" <juul(a)labitat.dk> wrote:
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 11:09 AM, Eske Silver
<eske.silver(a)gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Sitemod:
>> Can we make it so it's not burried? Not necessarily on the front
page,
but somewhere intuitively easy to find?
We also have this page:
https://sudoroom.org/wiki/Bans
--
marc/juul
20 Jan
20 Jan
5:17 p.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] Elliot Hughes
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512
On 01/18/2015 12:54 PM, Eske Silver wrote:
Not all Omnians frequent the sudo wiki, though. We
need something
commons-wide.
Write a construct to monitor the ATOM feed for that page's change
history and post updates as they happen to this list?
- --
The Doctor [412/724/301/703/415] [ZS]
Developer, Project Byzantium: http://project-byzantium.org/
PGP: 0x807B17C1 / 7960 1CDC 85C9 0B63 8D9F DD89 3BD8 FF2B 807B 17C1
WWW: https://drwho.virtadpt.net/
This message has been intercepted by US government agencies without
notice or warrant.
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3623
days inactive
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31 comments
14 participants
participants (14)
-
David Keenan -
Eske -
Eske Silver
-
hol＠gaskill.com -
Jenny Ryan -
joseph liesner -
Karissa McKelvey -
Marc Juul -
Matthew Senate -
niki -
Ryan -
Stephen Novotny -
The Doctor -
yar