20 Sep
2023
20 Sep
'23
11:53 p.m.
Sudoroom had a meeting from 8pm until almost 11,
meeting notes have been copied from the pad and are here:
https://sudoroom.org/wiki/Meeting_Notes_2023-09-20
21 Sep
21 Sep
12:10 p.m.
I want to commend everyone for the incredibly productive meeting!
Except Anonymous Oyster. It’s completely hypocritical to accuse someone of
acting in an inflammatory manner while repeatedly being disruptive and
exempting yourself from the processes everyone else follows. If you want to
have a voice, talk publicly or to me or someone else privately.
On Wed, Sep 20, 2023 at 11:53 PM Jake via sudo-discuss <
sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org> wrote:
Sudoroom had a meeting from 8pm until almost 11,
meeting notes have been copied from the pad and are here:
https://sudoroom.org/wiki/Meeting_Notes_2023-09-20
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8:07 p.m.
I thought perhaps I just didn't understand community norms. I couldn't understand
why behavior be accepted, that to me, appeared to be trolling.
Let me add that the normalized gaslighting where whites recharacterize expressions of
systemic oppression and isolated personal experiences is not getting past me anymore.
Irrespective of location on the political spectrum, the majority of whites throughout the
Americas, commonly deny the hierarchical system of intersectional racialized class,
promoted by law and custom exists.
Within that system, anti-Blackness serves as the cornerstone, qualitatively and
quantitatively distinct from other oppressed minorities.
From cradle to grave, millions of Black people, are detained by both police and white
citizens because of cultivated fear and suspicion. It is normal for Black people to be
followed while shopping and falsely accused of stealing; to be assumed less than competent
at our work; to be questioned and attacked because we don't look like we belong in our
home and neighborhood; to being stopped for suspicion that we have stolen our bike,
motorcycle, or car; to being "detained" by park rangers because we made random
white person on the trail "uncomfortable" just by our presence.
We have a commodified framework that frames whites and model minorities as innocent while
Black people are cast as suspects deserving of unwarranted public harassment,
extraordinary policing and incarceration, state sanctioned violence and extrajudicial
executions by both citizens and police.
I repeat, this is deliberately constructed, and not inevitable human nature expressed as
individuated personal experiences.
During last night's meeting, during my remarks about the cultural norm of suspicion, I
was interrupted and dismissed.
The person who interrupted me, recharacterize my remarks about systemic discrimination,
dismissing them as my unique, personal experience and not applicable.
That same person later took exception to my interrupting them, after they again dismissed
my remarks as invalid, yet when Yar repeated my statement, they for some reason they then
accepted it as reasonable.
This is the last time I let that kind of thing pass without objection. It is up to you, as
a community, to decide whether we work together in the "uncomfortable" pursuit
of truth and restorative justice under the Omni Common umbrella in general, and the Sudo
Room collective, in specific.
11:53 p.m.
During last night's meeting, during my remarks
about the cultural norm of suspicion, I was interrupted and dismissed.
The person who interrupted me, recharacterize my remarks about systemic discrimination,
dismissing them as my unique, personal experience and not applicable.
That same person later took exception to my interrupting them, after they again dismissed
my remarks as invalid, yet when Yar repeated my statement, they for some reason they then
accepted it as reasonable.
I think you're talking about Jake, but I'm not 100% sure. Is that right?
Personally I feel Jake should be recalled as sudoroom's delegate. He
is not capable of representing us well. He behaved shamefully in front
of one of our largest delegate meetings ever, damaging our
relationships with other collectives and other orgs.
I believe it's also true that Rafiq was trolling and baiting him. We
should deal with that separately. But it's no excuse for this.
22 Sep
22 Sep
12:16 a.m.
I think Muirén is taking about the sudoroom meeting and I hope it's not me
who she feels was interrupting and dismissing her but I would like to learn
more. Or maybe it was you?
As for the Omni meeting, you literally facilitated Rafiq attacking me and
then vilified me for responding to his attacks.
You literally put up an agenda item to remove me as president for
supposedly sending an email, both concepts which would not have been
brought up otherwise and were not relevant.
When we finally took a vote on TANC joining, you retook the vote three
times until you arrived at them being blocked, by counting bogss vote even
though we had already determined that their block was not valid.
But sure, blame Jake who literally was muted for the second half of the
meeting.
-Jake
On Thu, Sep 21, 2023, 23:54 Yardena Cohen via sudo-discuss <
sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org> wrote:
During last
night's meeting, during my remarks about the cultural norm
of suspicion, I was
interrupted and dismissed.
The person who interrupted me, recharacterize my remarks about systemic
discrimination, dismissing them as my unique, personal experience and not
applicable.
That same person later took exception to my interrupting them, after
they again
dismissed my remarks as invalid, yet when Yar repeated my
statement, they for some reason they then accepted it as reasonable.
I think you're talking about Jake, but I'm not 100% sure. Is that right?
Personally I feel Jake should be recalled as sudoroom's delegate. He
is not capable of representing us well. He behaved shamefully in front
of one of our largest delegate meetings ever, damaging our
relationships with other collectives and other orgs.
I believe it's also true that Rafiq was trolling and baiting him. We
should deal with that separately. But it's no excuse for this.
_______________________________________________
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12:48 a.m.
Jake, at this point I would strongly urge you to sit quietly with the
many criticisms you've already received, rather than just react to
them.
You're not doing any service to your own reputation, your own stated
goals or values, or the other people in your projects.
On Fri, Sep 22, 2023 at 12:17 AM Jake Watters via sudo-discuss
<sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org> wrote:
I think Muirén is taking about the sudoroom meeting and I hope it's not me who she
feels was interrupting and dismissing her but I would like to learn more. Or maybe it was
you?
As for the Omni meeting, you literally facilitated Rafiq attacking me and then vilified
me for responding to his attacks.
You literally put up an agenda item to remove me as president for supposedly sending an
email, both concepts which would not have been brought up otherwise and were not
relevant.
When we finally took a vote on TANC joining, you retook the vote three times until you
arrived at them being blocked, by counting bogss vote even though we had already
determined that their block was not valid.
But sure, blame Jake who literally was muted for the second half of the meeting.
-Jake
On Thu, Sep 21, 2023, 23:54 Yardena Cohen via sudo-discuss
<sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org> wrote:
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During last night's meeting, during my
remarks about the cultural norm of suspicion, I was interrupted and dismissed.
The person who interrupted me, recharacterize my remarks about systemic discrimination,
dismissing them as my unique, personal experience and not applicable.
That same person later took exception to my interrupting them, after they again dismissed
my remarks as invalid, yet when Yar repeated my statement, they for some reason they then
accepted it as reasonable.
I think you're talking about Jake, but I'm not 100% sure. Is that right?
Personally I feel Jake should be recalled as sudoroom's delegate. He
is not capable of representing us well. He behaved shamefully in front
of one of our largest delegate meetings ever, damaging our
relationships with other collectives and other orgs.
I believe it's also true that Rafiq was trolling and baiting him. We
should deal with that separately. But it's no excuse for this.
_______________________________________________
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1:33 a.m.
It wasn't Jake, and I didn't call the person out because that was less important
to me than the fact nobody else called them out when it happened. If I took the bait every
time I experience that kind of passive aggression, being attacked from behind a mask of
civility, I would be in a straitjacket and under heavy sedation by now.
What I am interested in is understanding how likely the possibility of remediating what
appears to be a socially dysfunctional intentional community. I see a lot of resentment,
consequentially little trust, and no general understanding, agreement on, nor consent to a
cohesive system of self-governance.
Self-Governance is more than intellectual understanding, it is a skill set that has to be
studied and practiced. If funds will be spent, then I suggest hiring an outside consultant
for analysis; planning, and establishing democratic norms that can be trusted.
I advocate consideration of a sociocratic decision support system.
https://sociocracyforall.org/start-here/
1:53 a.m.
On Fri, Sep 22, 2023 at 1:33 AM Muirén Ní Sídach via sudo-discuss
<sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org> wrote:
I didn't call the person out because that was less
important to me than the fact nobody else called them out when it happened.
As facilitator, I take responsibility for this, and all I can say is -
the meeting moved far faster than I was able to keep a handle on. A
lot of it still feels like a blur, and I don't remember that
particular part. I'm sorry that I failed to hold the space for you.
2:30 a.m.
Like trying to herd cats. These are adults, and shouldn't need to be asked to behave
as such. Both the Sudo Room and Omni Commons meetings were sobering experiences for me.
9:02 a.m.
But in the absence of people controlling themselves, the best we can do as
an org is to set clear boundaries and then clearly name when they're
crossed, and by who, and how.
Meanwhile the only way people can change is if they're told clearly and
unambiguously what they did. Hints don't go very far when they could be
interpreted to mean multiple things or multiple people.
On Fri, Sep 22, 2023, 2:31 AM Muirén Ní Sídach via sudo-discuss <
sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org> wrote:
Like trying to herd cats. These are adults, and
shouldn't need to be asked
to behave as such. Both the Sudo Room and Omni Commons meetings were
sobering experiences for me.
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9:42 a.m.
I have been following this thread in addition to other threads relating to
acceptance of TANC membership in the Omni collective.
Regarding recalling Jake as the Sudo Room delegate, I support this. Sudo
Room needs a delegate that is level-headed and avoids interjecting personal
views that do not necessarily reflect the views of the Sudo Room
collective. If Jake were to remain as the delegate it would imply that Sudo
Room as a collective shares the same viewpoint as Jake and believes that
Jake's behavior is appropriate. I can say that I do not share Jake's views
and behaviour in the least and am embarrassed by his actions at recent Omni
delegate meetings.
On Fri, Sep 22, 2023 at 12:03 PM Yardena Cohen via sudo-discuss <
sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org> wrote:
But in the absence of people controlling themselves,
the best we can do as
an org is to set clear boundaries and then clearly name when they're
crossed, and by who, and how.
Meanwhile the only way people can change is if they're told clearly and
unambiguously what they did. Hints don't go very far when they could be
interpreted to mean multiple things or multiple people.
On Fri, Sep 22, 2023, 2:31 AM Muirén Ní Sídach via sudo-discuss <
sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org> wrote:
Like trying to herd cats. These are adults, and
shouldn't need to be
asked to behave as such. Both the Sudo Room and Omni Commons meetings were
sobering experiences for me.
_______________________________________________
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10:09 a.m.
It seems like people want to tone-police me after Yar (as facilitator)
platformed and enabled someone she admits was trolling me and manipulating
us all, while arguing in bad faith. Yar knows this and even apologized to
me yesterday afternoon for telling me to get lost when I tried to warn her
about Rafiq a year ago.
Here's Yar calling him out for "coming down hardest on the BIPOC you're in
conflict with, putting some of our most vulnerable community members on
wide blast, replicating white supremist dynamics - apparently for no reason
except they threaten your monopoly on speaking for racial justice"
https://omnicommons.org/pipermail/consensus/2023-September/004018.html
Rather than looking at this meeting as "wow, Jake is really yelling at this
guy who's accusing him of things" I encourage everyone to learn more about
Rafiq and try to understand why I would be so upset that he's literally
trying to destroy Omni. And I don't know who "Autonomous" is but I know
that I have put in a TON of work over the years to hold Omni together, and
I don't appreciate being written off because I counterattacked someone in a
mismanaged meeting. If you have time to review my part of the meeting,
maybe you can also make time to research who I was dealing with.
Yeah I get it, nobody likes contentious meetings. The alternatives are
that we all stand up to people like Rafiq and his enablers (including Yar)
or we give up and lose Omni to them. If people don't see how clear that is
then I am super eager to answer questions.
-Jake
On Fri, Sep 22, 2023, 09:43 Autonomous via sudo-discuss <
sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org> wrote:
I have been following this thread in addition to other
threads relating to
acceptance of TANC membership in the Omni collective.
Regarding recalling Jake as the Sudo Room delegate, I support this. Sudo
Room needs a delegate that is level-headed and avoids interjecting personal
views that do not necessarily reflect the views of the Sudo Room
collective. If Jake were to remain as the delegate it would imply that Sudo
Room as a collective shares the same viewpoint as Jake and believes that
Jake's behavior is appropriate. I can say that I do not share Jake's views
and behaviour in the least and am embarrassed by his actions at recent Omni
delegate meetings.
On Fri, Sep 22, 2023 at 12:03 PM Yardena Cohen via sudo-discuss <
sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org> wrote:
But in the absence of people controlling
themselves, the best we can do
as an org is to set clear boundaries and then clearly name when they're
crossed, and by who, and how.
Meanwhile the only way people can change is if they're told clearly and
unambiguously what they did. Hints don't go very far when they could be
interpreted to mean multiple things or multiple people.
On Fri, Sep 22, 2023, 2:31 AM Muirén Ní Sídach via sudo-discuss <
sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org> wrote:
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Like trying to herd cats. These are adults, and
shouldn't need to be
asked to behave as such. Both the Sudo Room and Omni Commons meetings were
sobering experiences for me.
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To unsubscribe send an email to sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org
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11:05 a.m.
Jake, I don't think you understand the gravity of what happened last night.
CLP brought in like 6 leaders of Palestinian Youth Movement to
directly speak to their concerns about TANC. This served to
demonstrate that the CLP blocks had at least an air of good faith, and
it also gave Rafiq an opportunity to create a maximum spectacle of
Omni's faults - in order to drive wedges between Omni people, Omni and
other CLP members, PYM, the anti-zionist branches of DSA, and TANC,
all at once.
As facilitator I did my best to keep things on topic and moving. But
you gave Rafiq (who uses they/them) exactly what they wanted. You took
the bait, flew off the handle, derailed the meeting, and started broad
fights with PYM folks themselves in which you said plainly dismissive
things about both anti-racism and anti-zionism. This was right after
the delegates were clearly on the record NOT yet removing you as
president (though you did offer to resign), and just as the delegates
(and yes, me as facilitator) were also on the record pressuring a
black woman (Danielle, of CLP and BOGSS) to admit that she did not
have the delegate status she was trying to assert - in stated
solidarity with PYM. Most people present at the meeting saw this
plainly, and tried unsuccessfully to pull you back, but you were deep
in a head trip as usual.
In the call-outs that are sure to follow from local Palestinian orgs,
your name is going to come up, and nobody is going to side with you.
I could have done better as facilitator, and I am sitting with that.
But your choices are also your own, and you have to sit with them too.
You have effectively burned your reputation far and wide, and any
projects that still associate with you, and you don't even seem to
realize it yet.
On Fri, Sep 22, 2023 at 10:10 AM Jake Watters <typeinthenumber(a)gmail.com> wrote:
It seems like people want to tone-police me after Yar (as facilitator) platformed and
enabled someone she admits was trolling me and manipulating us all, while arguing in bad
faith. Yar knows this and even apologized to me yesterday afternoon for telling me to get
lost when I tried to warn her about Rafiq a year ago.
Here's Yar calling him out for "coming down hardest on the BIPOC you're in
conflict with, putting some of our most vulnerable community members on wide blast,
replicating white supremist dynamics - apparently for no reason except they threaten your
monopoly on speaking for racial justice"
https://omnicommons.org/pipermail/consensus/2023-September/004018.html
Rather than looking at this meeting as "wow, Jake is really yelling at this guy
who's accusing him of things" I encourage everyone to learn more about Rafiq and
try to understand why I would be so upset that he's literally trying to destroy Omni.
And I don't know who "Autonomous" is but I know that I have put in a TON of
work over the years to hold Omni together, and I don't appreciate being written off
because I counterattacked someone in a mismanaged meeting. If you have time to review my
part of the meeting, maybe you can also make time to research who I was dealing with.
Yeah I get it, nobody likes contentious meetings. The alternatives are that we all stand
up to people like Rafiq and his enablers (including Yar) or we give up and lose Omni to
them. If people don't see how clear that is then I am super eager to answer
questions.
-Jake
On Fri, Sep 22, 2023, 09:43 Autonomous via sudo-discuss <sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org>
wrote:
>
> I have been following this thread in addition to other threads relating to acceptance
of TANC membership in the Omni collective.
>
> Regarding recalling Jake as the Sudo Room delegate, I support this. Sudo Room needs a
delegate that is level-headed and avoids interjecting personal views that do not
necessarily reflect the views of the Sudo Room collective. If Jake were to remain as the
delegate it would imply that Sudo Room as a collective shares the same viewpoint as Jake
and believes that Jake's behavior is appropriate. I can say that I do not share
Jake's views and behaviour in the least and am embarrassed by his actions at recent
Omni delegate meetings.
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 22, 2023 at 12:03 PM Yardena Cohen via sudo-discuss
<sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org> wrote:
>>
>> But in the absence of people controlling themselves, the best we can do as an org
is to set clear boundaries and then clearly name when they're crossed, and by who, and
how.
>>
>> Meanwhile the only way people can change is if they're told clearly and
unambiguously what they did. Hints don't go very far when they could be interpreted to
mean multiple things or multiple people.
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 22, 2023, 2:31 AM Muirén Ní Sídach via sudo-discuss
<sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Like trying to herd cats. These are adults, and shouldn't need to be
asked to behave as such. Both the Sudo Room and Omni Commons meetings were sobering
experiences for me.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org
>>> To unsubscribe send an email to sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org
>>> More options at
https://sudoroom.org/lists/postorius/lists/sudo-discuss.sudoroom.org/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org
>> To unsubscribe send an email to sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org
>> More options at
https://sudoroom.org/lists/postorius/lists/sudo-discuss.sudoroom.org/
>
> _______________________________________________
> sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org
> More options at https://sudoroom.org/lists/postorius/lists/sudo-discuss.sudoroom.org/
11:20 a.m.
It sounds like you're more interested in writing the script for my
cancellation (for getting in an argument with PYM people who sided with
rafiqs attack on me) than for addressing the manipulation you facilitated
last night.
You set the stage with an agenda item specifically naming me as a problem,
before the meeting even started, as something that you felt was more
important than the other topics, handing Rafiq a softball to lob at my head.
I am comfortable with disagreeing with people when they're wrong, and I am
comfortable with my record on fighting for Palestinian freedom for longer
than some of these people have been alive. They don't know what I've done,
what I've lost, or what I've given for the cause and they don't care, and
that's their choice.
Right now I am concerned about Omni Commons and I think you should too,
instead of nursing your fixation on casting me as the evil villain for
speaking out.
-jake
On Fri, Sep 22, 2023, 11:06 Yardena Cohen <yardenack(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Jake, I don't think you understand the gravity of
what happened last night.
CLP brought in like 6 leaders of Palestinian Youth Movement to
directly speak to their concerns about TANC. This served to
demonstrate that the CLP blocks had at least an air of good faith, and
it also gave Rafiq an opportunity to create a maximum spectacle of
Omni's faults - in order to drive wedges between Omni people, Omni and
other CLP members, PYM, the anti-zionist branches of DSA, and TANC,
all at once.
As facilitator I did my best to keep things on topic and moving. But
you gave Rafiq (who uses they/them) exactly what they wanted. You took
the bait, flew off the handle, derailed the meeting, and started broad
fights with PYM folks themselves in which you said plainly dismissive
things about both anti-racism and anti-zionism. This was right after
the delegates were clearly on the record NOT yet removing you as
president (though you did offer to resign), and just as the delegates
(and yes, me as facilitator) were also on the record pressuring a
black woman (Danielle, of CLP and BOGSS) to admit that she did not
have the delegate status she was trying to assert - in stated
solidarity with PYM. Most people present at the meeting saw this
plainly, and tried unsuccessfully to pull you back, but you were deep
in a head trip as usual.
In the call-outs that are sure to follow from local Palestinian orgs,
your name is going to come up, and nobody is going to side with you.
I could have done better as facilitator, and I am sitting with that.
But your choices are also your own, and you have to sit with them too.
You have effectively burned your reputation far and wide, and any
projects that still associate with you, and you don't even seem to
realize it yet.
On Fri, Sep 22, 2023 at 10:10 AM Jake Watters <typeinthenumber(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
It seems like people want to tone-police me after Yar (as facilitator)
platformed
and enabled someone she admits was trolling me and manipulating
us all, while arguing in bad faith. Yar knows this and even apologized to
me yesterday afternoon for telling me to get lost when I tried to warn her
about Rafiq a year ago.
Here's Yar calling him out for "coming down hardest on the BIPOC you're
in conflict with, putting some of our most vulnerable community members on
wide blast, replicating white supremist dynamics - apparently for no reason
except they threaten your monopoly on speaking for racial justice"
https://omnicommons.org/pipermail/consensus/2023-September/004018.html
Rather than looking at this meeting as "wow, Jake is really yelling at
this
guy who's accusing him of things" I encourage everyone to learn more
about Rafiq and try to understand why I would be so upset that he's
literally trying to destroy Omni. And I don't know who "Autonomous" is
but
I know that I have put in a TON of work over the years to hold Omni
together, and I don't appreciate being written off because I
counterattacked someone in a mismanaged meeting. If you have time to
review my part of the meeting, maybe you can also make time to research who
I was dealing with.
Yeah I get it, nobody likes contentious meetings. The alternatives are
that we
all stand up to people like Rafiq and his enablers (including Yar)
or we give up and lose Omni to them. If people don't see how clear that is
then I am super eager to answer questions.
-Jake
On Fri, Sep 22, 2023, 09:43 Autonomous via sudo-discuss <
sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org> wrote:
>
> I have been following this thread in addition to other threads relating
to
acceptance of TANC membership in the Omni collective.
>
> Regarding recalling Jake as the Sudo Room delegate, I support this.
Sudo Room
needs a delegate that is level-headed and avoids interjecting
personal views that do not necessarily reflect the views of the Sudo Room
collective. If Jake were to remain as the delegate it would imply that Sudo
Room as a collective shares the same viewpoint as Jake and believes that
Jake's behavior is appropriate. I can say that I do not share Jake's views
and behaviour in the least and am embarrassed by his actions at recent Omni
delegate meetings.
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 22, 2023 at 12:03 PM Yardena Cohen via sudo-discuss <
sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org> wrote:
>>
>> But in the absence of people controlling themselves, the best we can
do as
an org is to set clear boundaries and then clearly name when they're
crossed, and by who, and how.
>>
>> Meanwhile the only way people can change is if they're told clearly
and unambiguously what they did. Hints don't go very far when they could be
interpreted to mean multiple things or multiple people.
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 22, 2023, 2:31 AM Muirén Ní Sídach via sudo-discuss <
sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Like trying to herd cats. These are adults, and shouldn't need to be
asked to behave as such. Both the Sudo Room and Omni Commons meetings were
sobering experiences for me.
>>>
_______________________________________________
>>> sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org
>>> To unsubscribe send an email to sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org
>>> More options at
https://sudoroom.org/lists/postorius/lists/sudo-discuss.sudoroom.org/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org
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12:28 p.m.
I am comfortable with disagreeing with people when
they're wrong, and I am comfortable with my record on fighting for Palestinian freedom
for longer than some of these people have been alive. They don't know what I've
done, what I've lost, or what I've given for the cause and they don't care,
and that's their choice.
This right here is your exact problem. Who is "they"? You took Rafiq's
bait and then aimed your rant at our PYM guests. Worst thing you could
have done.
12:40 p.m.
no, the PYM people came at me first, and I answered very politely, and they
responded very rudely and personally at me.
Then they decided to complain about me to the meeting, and then you took the
vote for a THIRD TIME even though we had already decided to let TANC in, and
then even though the delegates (other than CLP of course) expressly agreed
that BOGSS was not in session to be able to block, you interpreted CLP
Danielle's vote to count. Blocking TANC.
And here you are blaming me, because CLP's sock puppet blocked TANC because
Jake was rude? How does that make sense?
-jake
On Fri, 22 Sep 2023, Yardena Cohen via sudo-discuss wrote:
I am
comfortable with disagreeing with people when they're wrong, and I am comfortable with
my record on fighting for Palestinian freedom for longer than some of these people have
been alive. They don't know what I've done, what I've lost, or what I've
given for the cause and they don't care, and that's their choice.
This right here is your exact problem. Who is "they"? You took Rafiq's
bait and then aimed your rant at our PYM guests. Worst thing you could
have done.
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org
To unsubscribe send an email to sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org
More options at https://sudoroom.org/lists/postorius/lists/sudo-discuss.sudoroom.org/
12:52 p.m.
even though the delegates (other than CLP of course)
expressly agreed
that BOGSS was not in session to be able to block, you interpreted
CLP
Danielle's vote to count. Blocking TANC.
I don't think that's true... Joe said he was confused why we were
considering BOGSS vote earlier in the meeting but not at the end. Also
Patrick's proposal didn't pass. The last vote, and you can see in meeting
notes, was taken disregarding BOGSS' vote, like you wanted. (Not like I
wanted- I think that should have been decided clearly before voting. Which
it obv wasnt, all the comments afterwards affirmed that).
Out of concern for omni commons I really wish Jake stepped down from
delegate position last night. If we want to remove CLP based on Rafiq's
politics and interpersonal problems then we need to hash that out
thoughtfully and with a lot of support from the whole community at omni.
But in our SR meeting on Wednesday, we clearly said we thought it would not
be strategic for you to throw call outs. Especially given the big topic of
the meeting being CLP's concerns about TANC due to white supremacy at omni.
Paige
On Fri, Sep 22, 2023 at 12:41 PM Jake via sudo-discuss <
sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org> wrote:
no, the PYM people came at me first, and I answered
very politely, and they
responded very rudely and personally at me.
Then they decided to complain about me to the meeting, and then you took
the
vote for a THIRD TIME even though we had already decided to let TANC in,
and
then even though the delegates (other than CLP of course) expressly agreed
that BOGSS was not in session to be able to block, you interpreted CLP
Danielle's vote to count. Blocking TANC.
And here you are blaming me, because CLP's sock puppet blocked TANC because
Jake was rude? How does that make sense?
-jake
On Fri, 22 Sep 2023, Yardena Cohen via sudo-discuss wrote:
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org
To unsubscribe send an email to sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org
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> I am comfortable with disagreeing with people
when they're wrong, and I
am comfortable with my record on fighting for
Palestinian freedom for
longer than some of these people have been alive. They don't know what
I've done, what I've lost, or what I've given for the cause and they
don't
care, and that's their choice.
This right here is your exact problem. Who is "they"? You took Rafiq's
bait and then aimed your rant at our PYM guests. Worst thing you could
have done.
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org
To unsubscribe send an email to sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org
More options at
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1:28 p.m.
On Fri, Sep 22, 2023 at 12:52 PM Paige P <pgeplan(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I don't think that's reflected in the meeting notes, which list CLP and
BOGSS both as blocking, and says "according to one perspective, the Above
measures did not pass. according to another perspective, it did."
I do think the delegates need to have another meeting ASAP to clarify this
issue.
Either way, TANC seemed uninterested in wading into our drama and I don't
blame them. It seems like CLP are going to have their way unless we remove
them.
even though
the delegates (other than CLP of course) expressly agreed
that BOGSS was not in
session to be able to block, you interpreted CLP
Danielle's vote to count. Blocking TANC.
I don't think that's true... Joe said he was confused why we were
considering BOGSS vote earlier in the meeting but not at the end. Also
Patrick's proposal didn't pass. The last vote, and you can see in meeting
notes, was taken disregarding BOGSS' vote, like you wanted. (Not like I
wanted- I think that should have been decided clearly before voting. Which
it obv wasnt, all the comments afterwards affirmed that).
Out of concern for omni commons I really wish Jake
stepped down from
delegate position last night. If we want to remove CLP based on Rafiq's
politics and interpersonal problems then we need to hash that out
thoughtfully and with a lot of support from the whole community at omni.
But in our SR meeting on Wednesday, we clearly said we thought it would not
be strategic for you to throw call outs. Especially given the big topic of
the meeting being CLP's concerns about TANC due to white supremacy at omni.
It was certainly my intention to be strategic and not fall for the
manipulation tactics, but as I explained, the facilitator literally made me
an agenda item and then enabled Rafiq to go after me personally. As I
mentioned in the meeting, I have a conflict with Rafiq that he started in
2022 and that I suggested we should discuss at a later date. But the
facilitator allowed him to continue attacking me and did nothing to rein
him in, so I responded on my own behalf.
I did my best to stay on track in the meeting but I did not have support
(in fact, an agenda item specifically addressing me is the opposite of
support) and I muted myself for the entire second half of the meeting. I
will not take responsibility for others' failure to do their part.
-jake
On Fri, Sep 22, 2023 at 12:41 PM Jake via sudo-discuss
<
sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org> wrote:
no, the PYM people came at me first, and I
answered very politely, and
they
responded very rudely and personally at me.
Then they decided to complain about me to the meeting, and then you took
the
vote for a THIRD TIME even though we had already decided to let TANC in,
and
then even though the delegates (other than CLP of course) expressly agreed
that BOGSS was not in session to be able to block, you interpreted CLP
Danielle's vote to count. Blocking TANC.
And here you are blaming me, because CLP's sock puppet blocked TANC
because
Jake was rude? How does that make sense?
-jake
On Fri, 22 Sep 2023, Yardena Cohen via sudo-discuss wrote:
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org
To unsubscribe send an email to sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org
More options at
https://sudoroom.org/lists/postorius/lists/sudo-discuss.sudoroom.org/
> I am comfortable with disagreeing with people
when they're wrong, and
I am comfortable with my record on fighting for
Palestinian freedom for
longer than some of these people have been alive. They don't know what
I've done, what I've lost, or what I've given for the cause and they
don't
care, and that's their choice.
This right here is your exact problem. Who is "they"? You took Rafiq's
bait and then aimed your rant at our PYM guests. Worst thing you could
have done.
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org
To unsubscribe send an email to sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org
More options at
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24 Sep
24 Sep
10:24 p.m.
This is so, so, ugly.
We need to move forward.
First item: Autonomous has proposed that we appoint a new delegate. Is
there anyone who is willing to be the delegate?
*Andrew R Gross, (he/him)*
412.657.5332 - shrad.org <http://www.shrad.org>
On Fri, Sep 22, 2023 at 1:29 PM Jake Watters via sudo-discuss <
sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org> wrote:
On Fri, Sep 22, 2023 at 12:52 PM Paige P
<pgeplan(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I don't think that's reflected in the meeting notes, which list CLP and
BOGSS both as blocking, and says "according to one perspective, the Above
measures did not pass. according to another perspective, it did."
I do think the delegates need to have another meeting ASAP to clarify this
issue.
Either way, TANC seemed uninterested in wading into our drama and I don't
blame them. It seems like CLP are going to have their way unless we remove
them.
even
though the delegates (other than CLP of course) expressly agreed
that BOGSS was not
in session to be able to block, you interpreted CLP
Danielle's vote to count. Blocking TANC.
I don't think that's true... Joe said he was confused why we were
considering BOGSS vote earlier in the meeting but not at the end. Also
Patrick's proposal didn't pass. The last vote, and you can see in meeting
notes, was taken disregarding BOGSS' vote, like you wanted. (Not like I
wanted- I think that should have been decided clearly before voting. Which
it obv wasnt, all the comments afterwards affirmed that).
Out of concern for omni commons I really wish
Jake stepped down from
delegate position last night. If we want to remove CLP based on Rafiq's
politics and interpersonal problems then we need to hash that out
thoughtfully and with a lot of support from the whole community at omni.
But in our SR meeting on Wednesday, we clearly said we thought it would not
be strategic for you to throw call outs. Especially given the big topic of
the meeting being CLP's concerns about TANC due to white supremacy at omni.
It was certainly my intention to be strategic and not fall for the
manipulation tactics, but as I explained, the facilitator literally made me
an agenda item and then enabled Rafiq to go after me personally. As I
mentioned in the meeting, I have a conflict with Rafiq that he started in
2022 and that I suggested we should discuss at a later date. But the
facilitator allowed him to continue attacking me and did nothing to rein
him in, so I responded on my own behalf.
I did my best to stay on track in the meeting but I did not have support
(in fact, an agenda item specifically addressing me is the opposite of
support) and I muted myself for the entire second half of the meeting. I
will not take responsibility for others' failure to do their part.
-jake
On Fri, Sep 22, 2023 at 12:41 PM Jake via
sudo-discuss <
sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org> wrote:
sudo-discuss mailing list
-- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org
To unsubscribe send an email to sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org
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no, the PYM people came at me first, and I
answered very politely, and
they
responded very rudely and personally at me.
Then they decided to complain about me to the meeting, and then you took
the
vote for a THIRD TIME even though we had already decided to let TANC in,
and
then even though the delegates (other than CLP of course) expressly
agreed
that BOGSS was not in session to be able to block, you interpreted CLP
Danielle's vote to count. Blocking TANC.
And here you are blaming me, because CLP's sock puppet blocked TANC
because
Jake was rude? How does that make sense?
-jake
On Fri, 22 Sep 2023, Yardena Cohen via sudo-discuss wrote:
_______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________ > I am comfortable with disagreeing with people
when they're wrong, and
I am comfortable with my record on fighting for
Palestinian freedom for
longer than some of these people have been alive. They don't know what
I've done, what I've lost, or what I've given for the cause and they
don't
care, and that's their choice.
This right here is your exact problem. Who is "they"? You took Rafiq's
bait and then aimed your rant at our PYM guests. Worst thing you could
have done.
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org
To unsubscribe send an email to sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org
More options at
https://sudoroom.org/lists/postorius/lists/sudo-discuss.sudoroom.org/
10:44 p.m.
I don't know who Autonomous is or if they're a sudoroom member, but if you
want to suggest we appoint a new delegate you can go ahead.
That said, consider that understanding of Thursday's meeting is still
evolving as people are realizing that demonizing Jake has been a main
priority of Rafiq since I first questioned the politics CLP when they were
applying to join Omni.
Since it's pretty clear at this point that the interests of sudoroom (as
discussed in our last meeting) come down to whether or not Rafiq gets his
way, you should think about whether you're falling into his plans by piling
onto me.
You should ask the other delegates (not including CLP/BOGSS obviously)
whether they think I should represent sudoroom at the next meeting.
-jake
On Sun, Sep 24, 2023 at 10:24 PM Andrew R Gross <arg5029(a)gmail.com> wrote:
This is so, so, ugly.
We need to move forward.
First item: Autonomous has proposed that we appoint a new delegate. Is
there anyone who is willing to be the delegate?
*Andrew R Gross, (he/him)*
412.657.5332 - shrad.org <http://www.shrad.org>
On Fri, Sep 22, 2023 at 1:29 PM Jake Watters via sudo-discuss <
sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org> wrote:
On Fri, Sep 22, 2023 at 12:52 PM Paige P
<pgeplan(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I don't think that's reflected in the meeting notes, which list CLP and
BOGSS both as blocking, and says "according to one perspective, the
Above measures did not pass. according to another perspective, it did."
I do think the delegates need to have another meeting ASAP to clarify
this issue.
Either way, TANC seemed uninterested in wading into our drama and I don't
blame them. It seems like CLP are going to have their way unless we remove
them.
even
though the delegates (other than CLP of course) expressly agreed
that BOGSS was not
in session to be able to block, you interpreted CLP
Danielle's vote to count. Blocking TANC.
I don't think that's true... Joe said he was confused why we were
considering BOGSS vote earlier in the meeting but not at the end. Also
Patrick's proposal didn't pass. The last vote, and you can see in meeting
notes, was taken disregarding BOGSS' vote, like you wanted. (Not like I
wanted- I think that should have been decided clearly before voting. Which
it obv wasnt, all the comments afterwards affirmed that).
Out of concern for omni commons I really wish
Jake stepped down from
delegate position last night. If we want to remove CLP based on Rafiq's
politics and interpersonal problems then we need to hash that out
thoughtfully and with a lot of support from the whole community at omni.
But in our SR meeting on Wednesday, we clearly said we thought it would not
be strategic for you to throw call outs. Especially given the big topic of
the meeting being CLP's concerns about TANC due to white supremacy at omni.
It was certainly my intention to be strategic and not fall for the
manipulation tactics, but as I explained, the facilitator literally made me
an agenda item and then enabled Rafiq to go after me personally. As I
mentioned in the meeting, I have a conflict with Rafiq that he started in
2022 and that I suggested we should discuss at a later date. But the
facilitator allowed him to continue attacking me and did nothing to rein
him in, so I responded on my own behalf.
I did my best to stay on track in the meeting but I did not have support
(in fact, an agenda item specifically addressing me is the opposite of
support) and I muted myself for the entire second half of the meeting. I
will not take responsibility for others' failure to do their part.
-jake
On Fri, Sep 22, 2023 at 12:41 PM Jake via
sudo-discuss <
sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org> wrote:
sudo-discuss mailing list
-- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org
To unsubscribe send an email to sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org
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no, the PYM people came at me first, and I
answered very politely, and
they
responded very rudely and personally at me.
Then they decided to complain about me to the meeting, and then you
took the
vote for a THIRD TIME even though we had already decided to let TANC
in, and
then even though the delegates (other than CLP of course) expressly
agreed
that BOGSS was not in session to be able to block, you interpreted CLP
Danielle's vote to count. Blocking TANC.
And here you are blaming me, because CLP's sock puppet blocked TANC
because
Jake was rude? How does that make sense?
-jake
On Fri, 22 Sep 2023, Yardena Cohen via sudo-discuss wrote:
>> I am comfortable with disagreeing with people when they're wrong,
and I am comfortable with my record on fighting for Palestinian freedom for
longer than some of these people have been alive. They don't know what
I've done, what I've lost, or what I've given for the cause and they
don't
care, and that's their choice.
>
> This right here is your exact problem. Who is "they"? You took
Rafiq's
> bait and then aimed your rant at our PYM guests. Worst thing you could
> have done.
> _______________________________________________
> sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org
> More options at
https://sudoroom.org/lists/postorius/lists/sudo-discuss.sudoroom.org/
>
_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe send an email to sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org
More options at
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_______________________________________________
11:01 p.m.
sorry I keep misgendering Rafiq, whose pronouns are they/them, it is not
intentional I am just having trouble remembering
On Sun, Sep 24, 2023 at 10:44 PM Jake Watters <typeinthenumber(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
I don't know who Autonomous is or if they're a
sudoroom member, but if you
want to suggest we appoint a new delegate you can go ahead.
That said, consider that understanding of Thursday's meeting is still
evolving as people are realizing that demonizing Jake has been a main
priority of Rafiq since I first questioned the politics CLP when they were
applying to join Omni.
Since it's pretty clear at this point that the interests of sudoroom (as
discussed in our last meeting) come down to whether or not Rafiq gets his
way, you should think about whether you're falling into his plans by piling
onto me.
You should ask the other delegates (not including CLP/BOGSS obviously)
whether they think I should represent sudoroom at the next meeting.
-jake
On Sun, Sep 24, 2023 at 10:24 PM Andrew R Gross <arg5029(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> This is so, so, ugly.
>
> We need to move forward.
>
> First item: Autonomous has proposed that we appoint a new delegate. Is
> there anyone who is willing to be the delegate?
>
>
> *Andrew R Gross, (he/him)*
> 412.657.5332 - shrad.org <http://www.shrad.org>
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 22, 2023 at 1:29 PM Jake Watters via sudo-discuss <
> sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Sep 22, 2023 at 12:52 PM Paige P <pgeplan(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> > even though the delegates (other than CLP of course) expressly agreed
>>> that BOGSS was not in session to be able to block, you interpreted CLP
>>> Danielle's vote to count. Blocking TANC.
>>>
>>> I don't think that's true... Joe said he was confused why we were
>>> considering BOGSS vote earlier in the meeting but not at the end. Also
>>> Patrick's proposal didn't pass. The last vote, and you can see in
meeting
>>> notes, was taken disregarding BOGSS' vote, like you wanted. (Not like I
>>> wanted- I think that should have been decided clearly before voting. Which
>>> it obv wasnt, all the comments afterwards affirmed that).
>>>
>>
>> I don't think that's reflected in the meeting notes, which list CLP and
>> BOGSS both as blocking, and says "according to one perspective, the
>> Above measures did not pass. according to another perspective, it did."
>> I do think the delegates need to have another meeting ASAP to clarify
>> this issue.
>> Either way, TANC seemed uninterested in wading into our drama and I
>> don't blame them. It seems like CLP are going to have their way unless we
>> remove them.
>>
>>
>>> Out of concern for omni commons I really wish Jake stepped down from
>>> delegate position last night. If we want to remove CLP based on Rafiq's
>>> politics and interpersonal problems then we need to hash that out
>>> thoughtfully and with a lot of support from the whole community at omni.
>>> But in our SR meeting on Wednesday, we clearly said we thought it would not
>>> be strategic for you to throw call outs. Especially given the big topic of
>>> the meeting being CLP's concerns about TANC due to white supremacy at
omni.
>>>
>>
>> It was certainly my intention to be strategic and not fall for the
>> manipulation tactics, but as I explained, the facilitator literally made me
>> an agenda item and then enabled Rafiq to go after me personally. As I
>> mentioned in the meeting, I have a conflict with Rafiq that he started in
>> 2022 and that I suggested we should discuss at a later date. But the
>> facilitator allowed him to continue attacking me and did nothing to rein
>> him in, so I responded on my own behalf.
>>
>> I did my best to stay on track in the meeting but I did not have support
>> (in fact, an agenda item specifically addressing me is the opposite of
>> support) and I muted myself for the entire second half of the meeting. I
>> will not take responsibility for others' failure to do their part.
>>
>> -jake
>>
>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 22, 2023 at 12:41 PM Jake via sudo-discuss <
>>> sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> no, the PYM people came at me first, and I answered very politely, and
>>>> they
>>>> responded very rudely and personally at me.
>>>>
>>>> Then they decided to complain about me to the meeting, and then you
>>>> took the
>>>> vote for a THIRD TIME even though we had already decided to let TANC
>>>> in, and
>>>> then even though the delegates (other than CLP of course) expressly
>>>> agreed
>>>> that BOGSS was not in session to be able to block, you interpreted CLP
>>>> Danielle's vote to count. Blocking TANC.
>>>>
>>>> And here you are blaming me, because CLP's sock puppet blocked TANC
>>>> because
>>>> Jake was rude? How does that make sense?
>>>>
>>>> -jake
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, 22 Sep 2023, Yardena Cohen via sudo-discuss wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >> I am comfortable with disagreeing with people when they're
wrong,
>>>> and I am comfortable with my record on fighting for Palestinian freedom
for
>>>> longer than some of these people have been alive. They don't know
what
>>>> I've done, what I've lost, or what I've given for the cause
and they don't
>>>> care, and that's their choice.
>>>> >
>>>> > This right here is your exact problem. Who is "they"? You
took
>>>> Rafiq's
>>>> > bait and then aimed your rant at our PYM guests. Worst thing you
>>>> could
>>>> > have done.
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org
>>>> > To unsubscribe send an email to sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org
>>>> > More options at
>>>> https://sudoroom.org/lists/postorius/lists/sudo-discuss.sudoroom.org/
>>>> >
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org
>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org
>>>> More options at
>>>> https://sudoroom.org/lists/postorius/lists/sudo-discuss.sudoroom.org/
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>> sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org
>> To unsubscribe send an email to sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org
>> More options at
>> https://sudoroom.org/lists/postorius/lists/sudo-discuss.sudoroom.org/
>>
>
25 Sep
25 Sep
10:50 a.m.
I don't know who Autonomous is or if they're a
sudoroom member
There's not much in my sudoroom profile except that it says I am a member -
in good standing presumably since I pay dues regularly:
https://humans.sudoroom.org/~autonomous
if you want to suggest we appoint a new delegate you
can go ahead.
A few years ago sudoroom had a group of delegates that were rotated for
each Omni Commons meeting. Since Omni Commons meetings are now virtual it
would be easier to set up another pool of delegates, if people think this
is a good idea. This is something Yar is more familiar with than I.
On Mon, Sep 25, 2023 at 1:45 AM Jake Watters via sudo-discuss <
sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org> wrote:
I don't know who Autonomous is or if they're a
sudoroom member, but if you
want to suggest we appoint a new delegate you can go ahead.
That said, consider that understanding of Thursday's meeting is still
evolving as people are realizing that demonizing Jake has been a main
priority of Rafiq since I first questioned the politics CLP when they were
applying to join Omni.
Since it's pretty clear at this point that the interests of sudoroom (as
discussed in our last meeting) come down to whether or not Rafiq gets his
way, you should think about whether you're falling into his plans by piling
onto me.
You should ask the other delegates (not including CLP/BOGSS obviously)
whether they think I should represent sudoroom at the next meeting.
-jake
On Sun, Sep 24, 2023 at 10:24 PM Andrew R Gross <arg5029(a)gmail.com> wrote:
This is so, so, ugly.
We need to move forward.
First item: Autonomous has proposed that we appoint a new delegate. Is
there anyone who is willing to be the delegate?
*Andrew R Gross, (he/him)*
412.657.5332 - shrad.org <http://www.shrad.org>
On Fri, Sep 22, 2023 at 1:29 PM Jake Watters via sudo-discuss <
sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org> wrote:
sudo-discuss mailing list
-- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org
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On Fri, Sep 22, 2023 at 12:52 PM Paige P
<pgeplan(a)gmail.com> wrote:
_______________________________________________ > even though the delegates (other than CLP of
course) expressly agreed
that BOGSS was not in session to be able to block, you interpreted CLP
Danielle's vote to count. Blocking TANC.
I don't think that's true... Joe said he was confused why we were
considering BOGSS vote earlier in the meeting but not at the end. Also
Patrick's proposal didn't pass. The last vote, and you can see in meeting
notes, was taken disregarding BOGSS' vote, like you wanted. (Not like I
wanted- I think that should have been decided clearly before voting. Which
it obv wasnt, all the comments afterwards affirmed that).
I don't think that's reflected in the meeting notes, which list CLP and
BOGSS both as blocking, and says "according to one perspective, the
Above measures did not pass. according to another perspective, it did."
I do think the delegates need to have another meeting ASAP to clarify
this issue.
Either way, TANC seemed uninterested in wading into our drama and I
don't blame them. It seems like CLP are going to have their way unless we
remove them.
Out of concern for omni commons I really wish
Jake stepped down from
delegate position last night. If we want to remove CLP based on Rafiq's
politics and interpersonal problems then we need to hash that out
thoughtfully and with a lot of support from the whole community at omni.
But in our SR meeting on Wednesday, we clearly said we thought it would not
be strategic for you to throw call outs. Especially given the big topic of
the meeting being CLP's concerns about TANC due to white supremacy at omni.
It was certainly my intention to be strategic and not fall for the
manipulation tactics, but as I explained, the facilitator literally made me
an agenda item and then enabled Rafiq to go after me personally. As I
mentioned in the meeting, I have a conflict with Rafiq that he started in
2022 and that I suggested we should discuss at a later date. But the
facilitator allowed him to continue attacking me and did nothing to rein
him in, so I responded on my own behalf.
I did my best to stay on track in the meeting but I did not have support
(in fact, an agenda item specifically addressing me is the opposite of
support) and I muted myself for the entire second half of the meeting. I
will not take responsibility for others' failure to do their part.
-jake
On Fri, Sep 22, 2023 at 12:41 PM Jake via
sudo-discuss <
sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org> wrote:
> no, the PYM people came at me first, and I answered very politely, and
> they
> responded very rudely and personally at me.
>
> Then they decided to complain about me to the meeting, and then you
> took the
> vote for a THIRD TIME even though we had already decided to let TANC
> in, and
> then even though the delegates (other than CLP of course) expressly
> agreed
> that BOGSS was not in session to be able to block, you interpreted CLP
> Danielle's vote to count. Blocking TANC.
>
> And here you are blaming me, because CLP's sock puppet blocked TANC
> because
> Jake was rude? How does that make sense?
>
> -jake
>
> On Fri, 22 Sep 2023, Yardena Cohen via sudo-discuss wrote:
>
> >> I am comfortable with disagreeing with people when they're wrong,
> and I am comfortable with my record on fighting for Palestinian freedom for
> longer than some of these people have been alive. They don't know what
> I've done, what I've lost, or what I've given for the cause and they
don't
> care, and that's their choice.
> >
> > This right here is your exact problem. Who is "they"? You took
> Rafiq's
> > bait and then aimed your rant at our PYM guests. Worst thing you
> could
> > have done.
> > _______________________________________________
> > sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org
> > To unsubscribe send an email to sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org
> > More options at
> https://sudoroom.org/lists/postorius/lists/sudo-discuss.sudoroom.org/
> >
> _______________________________________________
> sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org
> More options at
> https://sudoroom.org/lists/postorius/lists/sudo-discuss.sudoroom.org/
>
_______________________________________________
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26 Sep
26 Sep
8:56 a.m.
I nominate Andrew to be delegate, effective immediately.
On Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 10:51 AM Autonomous via sudo-discuss <
sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org> wrote:
I don't
know who Autonomous is or if they're a sudoroom member
There's not much in my sudoroom profile except that it says I am a member
- in good standing presumably since I pay dues regularly:
https://humans.sudoroom.org/~autonomous
if you want to suggest we appoint a new delegate
you can go ahead.
A few years ago sudoroom had a group of delegates that were rotated for
each Omni Commons meeting. Since Omni Commons meetings are now virtual it
would be easier to set up another pool of delegates, if people think this
is a good idea. This is something Yar is more familiar with than I.
On Mon, Sep 25, 2023 at 1:45 AM Jake Watters via sudo-discuss <
sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org> wrote:
I don't know who Autonomous is or if
they're a sudoroom member, but if
you want to suggest we appoint a new delegate you can go ahead.
That said, consider that understanding of Thursday's meeting is still
evolving as people are realizing that demonizing Jake has been a main
priority of Rafiq since I first questioned the politics CLP when they were
applying to join Omni.
Since it's pretty clear at this point that the interests of sudoroom (as
discussed in our last meeting) come down to whether or not Rafiq gets his
way, you should think about whether you're falling into his plans by piling
onto me.
You should ask the other delegates (not including CLP/BOGSS obviously)
whether they think I should represent sudoroom at the next meeting.
-jake
On Sun, Sep 24, 2023 at 10:24 PM Andrew R Gross <arg5029(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org
To unsubscribe send an email to sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org
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This is so, so, ugly.
We need to move forward.
First item: Autonomous has proposed that we appoint a new delegate. Is
there anyone who is willing to be the delegate?
*Andrew R Gross, (he/him)*
412.657.5332 - shrad.org <http://www.shrad.org>
On Fri, Sep 22, 2023 at 1:29 PM Jake Watters via sudo-discuss <
sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org> wrote:
sudo-discuss mailing list
-- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org
To unsubscribe send an email to sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org
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On Fri, Sep 22, 2023 at 12:52 PM Paige P
<pgeplan(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > even though the delegates (other than CLP of course) expressly
> agreed that BOGSS was not in session to be able to block, you interpreted
> CLP Danielle's vote to count. Blocking TANC.
>
> I don't think that's true... Joe said he was confused why we were
> considering BOGSS vote earlier in the meeting but not at the end. Also
> Patrick's proposal didn't pass. The last vote, and you can see in meeting
> notes, was taken disregarding BOGSS' vote, like you wanted. (Not like I
> wanted- I think that should have been decided clearly before voting. Which
> it obv wasnt, all the comments afterwards affirmed that).
>
I don't think that's reflected in the meeting notes, which list CLP and
BOGSS both as blocking, and says "according to one perspective, the
Above measures did not pass. according to another perspective, it
did."
I do think the delegates need to have another meeting ASAP to clarify
this issue.
Either way, TANC seemed uninterested in wading into our drama and I
don't blame them. It seems like CLP are going to have their way unless we
remove them.
> Out of concern for omni commons I really wish Jake stepped down from
> delegate position last night. If we want to remove CLP based on Rafiq's
> politics and interpersonal problems then we need to hash that out
> thoughtfully and with a lot of support from the whole community at omni.
> But in our SR meeting on Wednesday, we clearly said we thought it would not
> be strategic for you to throw call outs. Especially given the big topic of
> the meeting being CLP's concerns about TANC due to white supremacy at omni.
>
It was certainly my intention to be strategic and not fall for the
manipulation tactics, but as I explained, the facilitator literally made me
an agenda item and then enabled Rafiq to go after me personally. As I
mentioned in the meeting, I have a conflict with Rafiq that he started in
2022 and that I suggested we should discuss at a later date. But the
facilitator allowed him to continue attacking me and did nothing to rein
him in, so I responded on my own behalf.
I did my best to stay on track in the meeting but I did not have
support (in fact, an agenda item specifically addressing me is the opposite
of support) and I muted myself for the entire second half of the meeting.
I will not take responsibility for others' failure to do their part.
-jake
> On Fri, Sep 22, 2023 at 12:41 PM Jake via sudo-discuss <
> sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org> wrote:
>
>> no, the PYM people came at me first, and I answered very politely,
>> and they
>> responded very rudely and personally at me.
>>
>> Then they decided to complain about me to the meeting, and then you
>> took the
>> vote for a THIRD TIME even though we had already decided to let TANC
>> in, and
>> then even though the delegates (other than CLP of course) expressly
>> agreed
>> that BOGSS was not in session to be able to block, you interpreted CLP
>> Danielle's vote to count. Blocking TANC.
>>
>> And here you are blaming me, because CLP's sock puppet blocked TANC
>> because
>> Jake was rude? How does that make sense?
>>
>> -jake
>>
>> On Fri, 22 Sep 2023, Yardena Cohen via sudo-discuss wrote:
>>
>> >> I am comfortable with disagreeing with people when they're wrong,
>> and I am comfortable with my record on fighting for Palestinian freedom for
>> longer than some of these people have been alive. They don't know what
>> I've done, what I've lost, or what I've given for the cause and they
don't
>> care, and that's their choice.
>> >
>> > This right here is your exact problem. Who is "they"? You took
>> Rafiq's
>> > bait and then aimed your rant at our PYM guests. Worst thing you
>> could
>> > have done.
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org
>> > To unsubscribe send an email to sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org
>> > More options at
>> https://sudoroom.org/lists/postorius/lists/sudo-discuss.sudoroom.org/
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org
>> To unsubscribe send an email to sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org
>> More options at
>> https://sudoroom.org/lists/postorius/lists/sudo-discuss.sudoroom.org/
>>
> _______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org
To unsubscribe send an email to sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org
More options at
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_______________________________________________
9:11 a.m.
I nominate Murien to be delegate, if they would be willing.
I also nominate Autonomous to be delegate.
On Tue, Sep 26, 2023, 8:56 AM Angela Miller <angelarosemiller(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
I nominate Andrew to be delegate, effective
immediately.
On Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 10:51 AM Autonomous via sudo-discuss <
sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org> wrote:
I
don't know who Autonomous is or if they're a sudoroom member
There's not much in my sudoroom profile except that it says I am a member
- in good standing presumably since I pay dues regularly:
https://humans.sudoroom.org/~autonomous
if you want to suggest we appoint a new delegate
you can go ahead.
A few years ago sudoroom had a group of delegates that were rotated for
each Omni Commons meeting. Since Omni Commons meetings are now virtual it
would be easier to set up another pool of delegates, if people think this
is a good idea. This is something Yar is more familiar with than I.
On Mon, Sep 25, 2023 at 1:45 AM Jake Watters via sudo-discuss <
sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org> wrote:
I don't know who Autonomous is or if
they're a sudoroom member, but if
you want to suggest we appoint a new delegate you can go ahead.
That said, consider that understanding of Thursday's meeting is still
evolving as people are realizing that demonizing Jake has been a main
priority of Rafiq since I first questioned the politics CLP when they were
applying to join Omni.
Since it's pretty clear at this point that the interests of sudoroom (as
discussed in our last meeting) come down to whether or not Rafiq gets his
way, you should think about whether you're falling into his plans by piling
onto me.
You should ask the other delegates (not including CLP/BOGSS obviously)
whether they think I should represent sudoroom at the next meeting.
-jake
On Sun, Sep 24, 2023 at 10:24 PM Andrew R Gross <arg5029(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org
To unsubscribe send an email to sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org
More options at
https://sudoroom.org/lists/postorius/lists/sudo-discuss.sudoroom.org/
This is so, so, ugly.
We need to move forward.
First item: Autonomous has proposed that we appoint a new delegate. Is
there anyone who is willing to be the delegate?
*Andrew R Gross, (he/him)*
412.657.5332 - shrad.org <http://www.shrad.org>
On Fri, Sep 22, 2023 at 1:29 PM Jake Watters via sudo-discuss <
sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org> wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 22, 2023 at 12:52 PM Paige P <pgeplan(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> > even though the delegates (other than CLP of course) expressly
>> agreed that BOGSS was not in session to be able to block, you interpreted
>> CLP Danielle's vote to count. Blocking TANC.
>>
>> I don't think that's true... Joe said he was confused why we were
>> considering BOGSS vote earlier in the meeting but not at the end. Also
>> Patrick's proposal didn't pass. The last vote, and you can see in
meeting
>> notes, was taken disregarding BOGSS' vote, like you wanted. (Not like I
>> wanted- I think that should have been decided clearly before voting. Which
>> it obv wasnt, all the comments afterwards affirmed that).
>>
>
> I don't think that's reflected in the meeting notes, which list CLP
> and BOGSS both as blocking, and says "according to one perspective,
> the Above measures did not pass. according to another perspective,
> it did."
> I do think the delegates need to have another meeting ASAP to clarify
> this issue.
> Either way, TANC seemed uninterested in wading into our drama and I
> don't blame them. It seems like CLP are going to have their way unless we
> remove them.
>
>
>> Out of concern for omni commons I really wish Jake stepped down from
>> delegate position last night. If we want to remove CLP based on Rafiq's
>> politics and interpersonal problems then we need to hash that out
>> thoughtfully and with a lot of support from the whole community at omni.
>> But in our SR meeting on Wednesday, we clearly said we thought it would not
>> be strategic for you to throw call outs. Especially given the big topic of
>> the meeting being CLP's concerns about TANC due to white supremacy at omni.
>>
>
> It was certainly my intention to be strategic and not fall for the
> manipulation tactics, but as I explained, the facilitator literally made me
> an agenda item and then enabled Rafiq to go after me personally. As I
> mentioned in the meeting, I have a conflict with Rafiq that he started in
> 2022 and that I suggested we should discuss at a later date. But the
> facilitator allowed him to continue attacking me and did nothing to rein
> him in, so I responded on my own behalf.
>
> I did my best to stay on track in the meeting but I did not have
> support (in fact, an agenda item specifically addressing me is the opposite
> of support) and I muted myself for the entire second half of the meeting.
> I will not take responsibility for others' failure to do their part.
>
> -jake
>
>
>> On Fri, Sep 22, 2023 at 12:41 PM Jake via sudo-discuss <
>> sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org> wrote:
>>
>>> no, the PYM people came at me first, and I answered very politely,
>>> and they
>>> responded very rudely and personally at me.
>>>
>>> Then they decided to complain about me to the meeting, and then you
>>> took the
>>> vote for a THIRD TIME even though we had already decided to let TANC
>>> in, and
>>> then even though the delegates (other than CLP of course) expressly
>>> agreed
>>> that BOGSS was not in session to be able to block, you interpreted
>>> CLP
>>> Danielle's vote to count. Blocking TANC.
>>>
>>> And here you are blaming me, because CLP's sock puppet blocked TANC
>>> because
>>> Jake was rude? How does that make sense?
>>>
>>> -jake
>>>
>>> On Fri, 22 Sep 2023, Yardena Cohen via sudo-discuss wrote:
>>>
>>> >> I am comfortable with disagreeing with people when they're
wrong,
>>> and I am comfortable with my record on fighting for Palestinian freedom for
>>> longer than some of these people have been alive. They don't know what
>>> I've done, what I've lost, or what I've given for the cause and
they don't
>>> care, and that's their choice.
>>> >
>>> > This right here is your exact problem. Who is "they"? You
took
>>> Rafiq's
>>> > bait and then aimed your rant at our PYM guests. Worst thing you
>>> could
>>> > have done.
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org
>>> > To unsubscribe send an email to sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org
>>> > More options at
>>> https://sudoroom.org/lists/postorius/lists/sudo-discuss.sudoroom.org/
>>> >
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org
>>> To unsubscribe send an email to sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org
>>> More options at
>>> https://sudoroom.org/lists/postorius/lists/sudo-discuss.sudoroom.org/
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
> sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org
> More options at
> https://sudoroom.org/lists/postorius/lists/sudo-discuss.sudoroom.org/
>
_______________________________________________
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sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org
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11:37 a.m.
Muirén * srry
On Tue, Sep 26, 2023, 9:11 AM Angela Miller <angelarosemiller(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
I nominate Murien to be delegate, if they would be
willing.
I also nominate Autonomous to be delegate.
On Tue, Sep 26, 2023, 8:56 AM Angela Miller <angelarosemiller(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> I nominate Andrew to be delegate, effective immediately.
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 10:51 AM Autonomous via sudo-discuss <
> sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org> wrote:
>
>> >I don't know who Autonomous is or if they're a sudoroom member
>>
>> There's not much in my sudoroom profile except that it says I am a
>> member - in good standing presumably since I pay dues regularly:
>> https://humans.sudoroom.org/~autonomous
>>
>> >if you want to suggest we appoint a new delegate you can go ahead.
>>
>> A few years ago sudoroom had a group of delegates that were rotated for
>> each Omni Commons meeting. Since Omni Commons meetings are now virtual it
>> would be easier to set up another pool of delegates, if people think this
>> is a good idea. This is something Yar is more familiar with than I.
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 25, 2023 at 1:45 AM Jake Watters via sudo-discuss <
>> sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org> wrote:
>>
>>> I don't know who Autonomous is or if they're a sudoroom member, but
if
>>> you want to suggest we appoint a new delegate you can go ahead.
>>>
>>> That said, consider that understanding of Thursday's meeting is still
>>> evolving as people are realizing that demonizing Jake has been a main
>>> priority of Rafiq since I first questioned the politics CLP when they were
>>> applying to join Omni.
>>>
>>> Since it's pretty clear at this point that the interests of sudoroom
>>> (as discussed in our last meeting) come down to whether or not Rafiq gets
>>> his way, you should think about whether you're falling into his plans by
>>> piling onto me.
>>>
>>> You should ask the other delegates (not including CLP/BOGSS obviously)
>>> whether they think I should represent sudoroom at the next meeting.
>>>
>>> -jake
>>>
>>> On Sun, Sep 24, 2023 at 10:24 PM Andrew R Gross <arg5029(a)gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> This is so, so, ugly.
>>>>
>>>> We need to move forward.
>>>>
>>>> First item: Autonomous has proposed that we appoint a new delegate. Is
>>>> there anyone who is willing to be the delegate?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Andrew R Gross, (he/him)*
>>>> 412.657.5332 - shrad.org <http://www.shrad.org>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Sep 22, 2023 at 1:29 PM Jake Watters via sudo-discuss <
>>>> sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Sep 22, 2023 at 12:52 PM Paige P <pgeplan(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> > even though the delegates (other than CLP of course)
expressly
>>>>>> agreed that BOGSS was not in session to be able to block, you
interpreted
>>>>>> CLP Danielle's vote to count. Blocking TANC.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't think that's true... Joe said he was confused why
we were
>>>>>> considering BOGSS vote earlier in the meeting but not at the end.
Also
>>>>>> Patrick's proposal didn't pass. The last vote, and you
can see in meeting
>>>>>> notes, was taken disregarding BOGSS' vote, like you wanted.
(Not like I
>>>>>> wanted- I think that should have been decided clearly before
voting. Which
>>>>>> it obv wasnt, all the comments afterwards affirmed that).
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't think that's reflected in the meeting notes, which
list CLP
>>>>> and BOGSS both as blocking, and says "according to one
perspective,
>>>>> the Above measures did not pass. according to another perspective,
>>>>> it did."
>>>>> I do think the delegates need to have another meeting ASAP to
clarify
>>>>> this issue.
>>>>> Either way, TANC seemed uninterested in wading into our drama and I
>>>>> don't blame them. It seems like CLP are going to have their way
unless we
>>>>> remove them.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Out of concern for omni commons I really wish Jake stepped down
from
>>>>>> delegate position last night. If we want to remove CLP based on
Rafiq's
>>>>>> politics and interpersonal problems then we need to hash that
out
>>>>>> thoughtfully and with a lot of support from the whole community
at omni.
>>>>>> But in our SR meeting on Wednesday, we clearly said we thought it
would not
>>>>>> be strategic for you to throw call outs. Especially given the big
topic of
>>>>>> the meeting being CLP's concerns about TANC due to white
supremacy at omni.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It was certainly my intention to be strategic and not fall for the
>>>>> manipulation tactics, but as I explained, the facilitator literally
made me
>>>>> an agenda item and then enabled Rafiq to go after me personally. As
I
>>>>> mentioned in the meeting, I have a conflict with Rafiq that he
started in
>>>>> 2022 and that I suggested we should discuss at a later date. But
the
>>>>> facilitator allowed him to continue attacking me and did nothing to
rein
>>>>> him in, so I responded on my own behalf.
>>>>>
>>>>> I did my best to stay on track in the meeting but I did not have
>>>>> support (in fact, an agenda item specifically addressing me is the
opposite
>>>>> of support) and I muted myself for the entire second half of the
meeting.
>>>>> I will not take responsibility for others' failure to do their
part.
>>>>>
>>>>> -jake
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 22, 2023 at 12:41 PM Jake via sudo-discuss <
>>>>>> sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> no, the PYM people came at me first, and I answered very
politely,
>>>>>>> and they
>>>>>>> responded very rudely and personally at me.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Then they decided to complain about me to the meeting, and
then you
>>>>>>> took the
>>>>>>> vote for a THIRD TIME even though we had already decided to
let
>>>>>>> TANC in, and
>>>>>>> then even though the delegates (other than CLP of course)
expressly
>>>>>>> agreed
>>>>>>> that BOGSS was not in session to be able to block, you
interpreted
>>>>>>> CLP
>>>>>>> Danielle's vote to count. Blocking TANC.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And here you are blaming me, because CLP's sock puppet
blocked TANC
>>>>>>> because
>>>>>>> Jake was rude? How does that make sense?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -jake
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, 22 Sep 2023, Yardena Cohen via sudo-discuss wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> I am comfortable with disagreeing with people when
they're
>>>>>>> wrong, and I am comfortable with my record on fighting for
Palestinian
>>>>>>> freedom for longer than some of these people have been alive.
They don't
>>>>>>> know what I've done, what I've lost, or what I've
given for the cause and
>>>>>>> they don't care, and that's their choice.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > This right here is your exact problem. Who is
"they"? You took
>>>>>>> Rafiq's
>>>>>>> > bait and then aimed your rant at our PYM guests. Worst
thing you
>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>> > have done.
>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> > sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org
>>>>>>> > To unsubscribe send an email to
sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org
>>>>>>> > More options at
>>>>>>>
https://sudoroom.org/lists/postorius/lists/sudo-discuss.sudoroom.org/
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to
sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org
>>>>>>> More options at
>>>>>>>
https://sudoroom.org/lists/postorius/lists/sudo-discuss.sudoroom.org/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org
>>>>> More options at
>>>>>
https://sudoroom.org/lists/postorius/lists/sudo-discuss.sudoroom.org/
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>> _______________________________________________
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>
3:50 p.m.
Muirén left Sudo Room, unfortunately.
I think Paige would be a good delegate.
I won't flatly rule it out, but I'd rather not. Autonomous, Angela, do you
guys want to rotate through the way Auto suggested?
*Andrew R Gross, (he/him)*
412.657.5332 - shrad.org <http://www.shrad.org>
On Tue, Sep 26, 2023 at 11:37 AM Angela Miller <angelarosemiller(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Muirén * srry
On Tue, Sep 26, 2023, 9:11 AM Angela Miller <angelarosemiller(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> I nominate Murien to be delegate, if they would be willing.
>
> I also nominate Autonomous to be delegate.
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 26, 2023, 8:56 AM Angela Miller <angelarosemiller(a)gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I nominate Andrew to be delegate, effective immediately.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 10:51 AM Autonomous via sudo-discuss <
>> sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org> wrote:
>>
>>> >I don't know who Autonomous is or if they're a sudoroom member
>>>
>>> There's not much in my sudoroom profile except that it says I am a
>>> member - in good standing presumably since I pay dues regularly:
>>> https://humans.sudoroom.org/~autonomous
>>>
>>> >if you want to suggest we appoint a new delegate you can go ahead.
>>>
>>> A few years ago sudoroom had a group of delegates that were rotated for
>>> each Omni Commons meeting. Since Omni Commons meetings are now virtual it
>>> would be easier to set up another pool of delegates, if people think this
>>> is a good idea. This is something Yar is more familiar with than I.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 25, 2023 at 1:45 AM Jake Watters via sudo-discuss <
>>> sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I don't know who Autonomous is or if they're a sudoroom member,
but if
>>>> you want to suggest we appoint a new delegate you can go ahead.
>>>>
>>>> That said, consider that understanding of Thursday's meeting is
still
>>>> evolving as people are realizing that demonizing Jake has been a main
>>>> priority of Rafiq since I first questioned the politics CLP when they
were
>>>> applying to join Omni.
>>>>
>>>> Since it's pretty clear at this point that the interests of sudoroom
>>>> (as discussed in our last meeting) come down to whether or not Rafiq
gets
>>>> his way, you should think about whether you're falling into his plans
by
>>>> piling onto me.
>>>>
>>>> You should ask the other delegates (not including CLP/BOGSS obviously)
>>>> whether they think I should represent sudoroom at the next meeting.
>>>>
>>>> -jake
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Sep 24, 2023 at 10:24 PM Andrew R Gross
<arg5029(a)gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> This is so, so, ugly.
>>>>>
>>>>> We need to move forward.
>>>>>
>>>>> First item: Autonomous has proposed that we appoint a new delegate.
>>>>> Is there anyone who is willing to be the delegate?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *Andrew R Gross, (he/him)*
>>>>> 412.657.5332 - shrad.org <http://www.shrad.org>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Sep 22, 2023 at 1:29 PM Jake Watters via sudo-discuss <
>>>>> sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 22, 2023 at 12:52 PM Paige P
<pgeplan(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > even though the delegates (other than CLP of course)
expressly
>>>>>>> agreed that BOGSS was not in session to be able to block, you
interpreted
>>>>>>> CLP Danielle's vote to count. Blocking TANC.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't think that's true... Joe said he was confused
why we were
>>>>>>> considering BOGSS vote earlier in the meeting but not at the
end. Also
>>>>>>> Patrick's proposal didn't pass. The last vote, and
you can see in meeting
>>>>>>> notes, was taken disregarding BOGSS' vote, like you
wanted. (Not like I
>>>>>>> wanted- I think that should have been decided clearly before
voting. Which
>>>>>>> it obv wasnt, all the comments afterwards affirmed that).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't think that's reflected in the meeting notes,
which list CLP
>>>>>> and BOGSS both as blocking, and says "according to one
perspective,
>>>>>> the Above measures did not pass. according to another
perspective,
>>>>>> it did."
>>>>>> I do think the delegates need to have another meeting ASAP to
>>>>>> clarify this issue.
>>>>>> Either way, TANC seemed uninterested in wading into our drama and
I
>>>>>> don't blame them. It seems like CLP are going to have their
way unless we
>>>>>> remove them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Out of concern for omni commons I really wish Jake stepped
down
>>>>>>> from delegate position last night. If we want to remove CLP
based on
>>>>>>> Rafiq's politics and interpersonal problems then we need
to hash that out
>>>>>>> thoughtfully and with a lot of support from the whole
community at omni.
>>>>>>> But in our SR meeting on Wednesday, we clearly said we
thought it would not
>>>>>>> be strategic for you to throw call outs. Especially given the
big topic of
>>>>>>> the meeting being CLP's concerns about TANC due to white
supremacy at omni.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It was certainly my intention to be strategic and not fall for
the
>>>>>> manipulation tactics, but as I explained, the facilitator
literally made me
>>>>>> an agenda item and then enabled Rafiq to go after me personally.
As I
>>>>>> mentioned in the meeting, I have a conflict with Rafiq that he
started in
>>>>>> 2022 and that I suggested we should discuss at a later date. But
the
>>>>>> facilitator allowed him to continue attacking me and did nothing
to rein
>>>>>> him in, so I responded on my own behalf.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I did my best to stay on track in the meeting but I did not have
>>>>>> support (in fact, an agenda item specifically addressing me is
the opposite
>>>>>> of support) and I muted myself for the entire second half of the
meeting.
>>>>>> I will not take responsibility for others' failure to do
their part.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -jake
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 22, 2023 at 12:41 PM Jake via sudo-discuss <
>>>>>>> sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> no, the PYM people came at me first, and I answered very
politely,
>>>>>>>> and they
>>>>>>>> responded very rudely and personally at me.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Then they decided to complain about me to the meeting,
and then
>>>>>>>> you took the
>>>>>>>> vote for a THIRD TIME even though we had already decided
to let
>>>>>>>> TANC in, and
>>>>>>>> then even though the delegates (other than CLP of
course)
>>>>>>>> expressly agreed
>>>>>>>> that BOGSS was not in session to be able to block, you
interpreted
>>>>>>>> CLP
>>>>>>>> Danielle's vote to count. Blocking TANC.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And here you are blaming me, because CLP's sock
puppet blocked
>>>>>>>> TANC because
>>>>>>>> Jake was rude? How does that make sense?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -jake
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, 22 Sep 2023, Yardena Cohen via sudo-discuss
wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >> I am comfortable with disagreeing with people
when they're
>>>>>>>> wrong, and I am comfortable with my record on fighting
for Palestinian
>>>>>>>> freedom for longer than some of these people have been
alive. They don't
>>>>>>>> know what I've done, what I've lost, or what
I've given for the cause and
>>>>>>>> they don't care, and that's their choice.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > This right here is your exact problem. Who is
"they"? You took
>>>>>>>> Rafiq's
>>>>>>>> > bait and then aimed your rant at our PYM guests.
Worst thing you
>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>> > have done.
>>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> > sudo-discuss mailing list --
sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org
>>>>>>>> > To unsubscribe send an email to
sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org
>>>>>>>> > More options at
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org
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sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org
>>>>>>>> More options at
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
22 Sep
22 Sep
12:55 p.m.
I am comfortable with disagreeing with people when
they're wrong, and I
am comfortable with my record on fighting for Palestinian
freedom for
longer than some of these people have been alive. They don't know what
I've done, what I've lost, or what I've given for the cause and they
don't
care, and that's their choice.
Excuse me, but you need to review the role and duties of the Omni delegate
for Sudo Room as defined here:
https://sudoroom.org/wiki/Omni_Delegate
The duties of the Omni delegate for Sudo Room are to:
a) Attend Omni meetings
b) Follow listserv activity relating to Omni meetings
c) Forward information to Sudoroom about Omni proposals that need consensus
It says nothing about expression of political viewpoints at Omni meetings
and you have way overstepped the role of a delegate. A diverse set of
political viewpoints exists within Sudo Room membership. While members are
free to discuss their viewpoints (with certain limitations as defined in
the COC) the delegate as representative of Sudo Room is specifically
limited to collecting and forwarding information, as well as voting on
behalf of Sudo Room.
On Fri, Sep 22, 2023 at 3:29 PM Yardena Cohen <yardenack(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> I am comfortable with disagreeing with people when
they're wrong, and I
> am comfortable with my record on fighting for
Palestinian freedom for
> longer than some of these people have been alive. They don't know what
> I've done, what I've lost, or what I've given for the cause and they
don't
> care, and that's their choice.
>
> This right here is your exact problem. Who is "they"? You took Rafiq's
> bait and then aimed your rant at our PYM guests. Worst thing you could
> have done.
>
226
days inactive
231
days old
26 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
Andrew R Gross -
Angela Miller -
Autonomous -
Jake -
Jake Watters -
Muirén Ní Sídach -
Paige P -
Yardena Cohen