3 Feb
2015
3 Feb
'15
2:20 p.m.
fwding this to sudo and cdc as well
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Ryan <yandoryn(a)gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 1:59 PM
Subject: Proposed Safe Space Ban: Perry
To: "discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org" <discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org>rg>,
David
Keenan <dkeenan44(a)gmail.com>
Perry, who as far as I know is not affiliated with any collective in the
space, was at the Omni until late last night. He was heavily inebriated and
reeked of alcohol.
In attempting to talk with me, he got incredibly touchy-feely and further
invaded my space, getting so close that I could feel his breath on my skin.
I informed him loudly that touch needs to be consensual in the space and
that he should ask me before touching me. I told him that the safe space
policy is next to the front door and that he should read it. I managed to
get away from him, but he followed me outside.
Ribre (sp?) was outside with her guitar and he sat down next to her,
invaded her space, and tried to strike up a seemingly very uncomfortable
conversation. She told him that whatever he was talking about was something
that he'd have to deal with on his own, not with her, and that she cannot
deal with drunk men, and that they make her unsafe. Instead of ceasing the
conversation, he got closer and tried to tell her that they needed to
continue it.
He continued in this vein for a while longer, until I loudly informed him
that the conversation was not consensual and he needed to stop. He started
to argue with me, however RAYC was able to defuse Perry and lead him away
from the interaction.
I spoke to Kwe and Juul before they left, to make sure I had backup if I
needed to ask Perry to leave the building. Eventually, I was the only
member left in the building, so I asked RAYC to shut down the building for
me, and that I was only comfortable vouching for him and Nicholas. RAYC got
Perry to leave.
I spoke with David Keenan this morning, explaining the situation, and DK
said that he has spoken to Perry in the past about his behaviour,
specifically his behaviour when under the influence of alcohol. I will let
DK speak more to that.
Is anyone aware of a collective that Perry is involved with? In my
conversation with DK, he said that when he spoke to Perry he said he was
with FNB, but was probably lying, as he didn't even know where the kitchen
was. Regardless, I ask that Perry be banned from the Omni, pending
mediation, as his actions clearly violate our safe space policy and he
refused to take action to alter his behaviour.
3 Feb
3 Feb
2:49 p.m.
Hi all,
Yes, I agree, this person should persona non grata pending mediation.
Perry is an olderish white guy musician who comes around sometimes, much of
the time seriously drunk it would appear. Being drunk seems to clearly
impair his judgement and his actions become invasive to others in the ways
Ryan describes.
My history with him is only the following. I first talked to him a while
ago asking him to turn down his electric guitar in the ballroom while a
large meeting was taking place in La Commune - he complied. I noticed he
really did reek of alcohol. I asked if he volunteered with any collective,
he said FNB - but he didn't know where the kitchen was, or that there was
even a basement, which rang alarm bells for me (ie, it was probably a fib.)
I later followed up with Helen and Joe and they said they had never heard
of him, and that sometimes people 'say' theyre in FNB but aren't really..
Anyhow, Perry left the ballroom and wandered upstairs by the kitchen above
La Commune, now playing the mandolin - 'quietly', yes - but alas still
distracting to those in the large meeting below, and I again asked if he
could play music in the basement or another room in the building until the
meeting as finished - he complied, but seemed pretty out of it and not
understanding why (drunk).
I later found out that while upstairs he was 'peeking' into the Disco Room
on a dance rehearsal that made those inside feel uncomfortable and Sarah
sent an email out to that effect. Next time I saw him, I re-introduced
myself, took him up to the dance room and let him know that they require
privacy and to not do that. He said he had something of one the dancers
inside and was trying to return it to her.. I did not verify whether this
was true or not, but since the dancers did not seem to know him, it seems
doubtful.
Then, one day after that, he was walking into the building and I admittedly
gave him a bit of a 'side-eye' on the way in because I wasn't sure if he
was wasted or what. He himself came up to me and said, "why'd you give me
that look?", and I said, it appears you come into the building drunk, and
we can't have drunk people in here - you aren't known to our community, and
I don't know what you will do in that state. I said if you want to get
drunk, try not to come here. To his credit he admitted being drunk the
aforementioned day, agreed it was unacceptable, and said that wasn't going
to happen again.
But, since it has happened again, to my mind that is grounds to ban him
pending mediation that he will have to arrange.
Does anyone know him, or have his email?
Best,
David
On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 2:20 PM, Ryan <yandoryn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
fwding this to sudo and cdc as well
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Ryan <yandoryn(a)gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 1:59 PM
Subject: Proposed Safe Space Ban: Perry
To: "discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org" <discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org>rg>,
David Keenan <dkeenan44(a)gmail.com>
Perry, who as far as I know is not affiliated with any collective in the
space, was at the Omni until late last night. He was heavily inebriated and
reeked of alcohol.
In attempting to talk with me, he got incredibly touchy-feely and further
invaded my space, getting so close that I could feel his breath on my skin.
I informed him loudly that touch needs to be consensual in the space and
that he should ask me before touching me. I told him that the safe space
policy is next to the front door and that he should read it. I managed to
get away from him, but he followed me outside.
Ribre (sp?) was outside with her guitar and he sat down next to her,
invaded her space, and tried to strike up a seemingly very uncomfortable
conversation. She told him that whatever he was talking about was something
that he'd have to deal with on his own, not with her, and that she cannot
deal with drunk men, and that they make her unsafe. Instead of ceasing the
conversation, he got closer and tried to tell her that they needed to
continue it.
He continued in this vein for a while longer, until I loudly informed him
that the conversation was not consensual and he needed to stop. He started
to argue with me, however RAYC was able to defuse Perry and lead him away
from the interaction.
I spoke to Kwe and Juul before they left, to make sure I had backup if I
needed to ask Perry to leave the building. Eventually, I was the only
member left in the building, so I asked RAYC to shut down the building for
me, and that I was only comfortable vouching for him and Nicholas. RAYC got
Perry to leave.
I spoke with David Keenan this morning, explaining the situation, and DK
said that he has spoken to Perry in the past about his behaviour,
specifically his behaviour when under the influence of alcohol. I will let
DK speak more to that.
Is anyone aware of a collective that Perry is involved with? In my
conversation with DK, he said that when he spoke to Perry he said he was
with FNB, but was probably lying, as he didn't even know where the kitchen
was. Regardless, I ask that Perry be banned from the Omni, pending
mediation, as his actions clearly violate our safe space policy and he
refused to take action to alter his behaviour.
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
3:27 p.m.
Oh, *that* dude. So sorry you were space-invaded, Ryan :(
I remember being in the mezzanine when Perry was in the ballroom, reading Sarah's
report about the incident with him peeking into the Disco Room, then overheard him say to
someone on the phone about being asked to stop, "Dude, I was just looking at this
beautiful naked dancer, I mean wow" and turning to Matt or Marc, can't recall,
and fuming that I'd love to go kick that creep out of the space.
Wish I had then. Fully in support of his ban but don't personally have the bandwidth
to steward a mediation process. I think he might know Gabby from Rise Above, or seemed to
be helping / around that area some. CC'ing her to see if she has his contact info.
/jnny
On 02/03/2015 02:49 PM, David Keenan wrote:
Hi all,
Yes, I agree, this person should persona non grata pending mediation.
Perry is an olderish white guy musician who comes around sometimes, much of
the time seriously drunk it would appear. Being drunk seems to clearly
impair his judgement and his actions become invasive to others in the ways
Ryan describes.
My history with him is only the following. I first talked to him a while
ago asking him to turn down his electric guitar in the ballroom while a
large meeting was taking place in La Commune - he complied. I noticed he
really did reek of alcohol. I asked if he volunteered with any collective,
he said FNB - but he didn't know where the kitchen was, or that there was
even a basement, which rang alarm bells for me (ie, it was probably a fib.)
I later followed up with Helen and Joe and they said they had never heard
of him, and that sometimes people 'say' theyre in FNB but aren't really..
Anyhow, Perry left the ballroom and wandered upstairs by the kitchen above
La Commune, now playing the mandolin - 'quietly', yes - but alas still
distracting to those in the large meeting below, and I again asked if he
could play music in the basement or another room in the building until the
meeting as finished - he complied, but seemed pretty out of it and not
understanding why (drunk).
I later found out that while upstairs he was 'peeking' into the Disco Room
on a dance rehearsal that made those inside feel uncomfortable and Sarah
sent an email out to that effect. Next time I saw him, I re-introduced
myself, took him up to the dance room and let him know that they require
privacy and to not do that. He said he had something of one the dancers
inside and was trying to return it to her.. I did not verify whether this
was true or not, but since the dancers did not seem to know him, it seems
doubtful.
Then, one day after that, he was walking into the building and I admittedly
gave him a bit of a 'side-eye' on the way in because I wasn't sure if he
was wasted or what. He himself came up to me and said, "why'd you give me
that look?", and I said, it appears you come into the building drunk, and
we can't have drunk people in here - you aren't known to our community, and
I don't know what you will do in that state. I said if you want to get
drunk, try not to come here. To his credit he admitted being drunk the
aforementioned day, agreed it was unacceptable, and said that wasn't going
to happen again.
But, since it has happened again, to my mind that is grounds to ban him
pending mediation that he will have to arrange.
Does anyone know him, or have his email?
Best,
David
On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 2:20 PM, Ryan <yandoryn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
--
Jenny
http://jennyryan.net
http://sudomesh.org
http://thevirtualcampfire.org
http://technomadic.tumblr.com
`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
"Technology is the campfire around which we tell our stories."
-Laurie Anderson
"Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the error of defining it."
-Hannah Arendt
"To define is to kill. To suggest is to create."
-Stéphane Mallarmé
~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
fwding this to sudo and cdc as well
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Ryan <yandoryn(a)gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 1:59 PM
Subject: Proposed Safe Space Ban: Perry
To: "discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org" <discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org>rg>,
David Keenan <dkeenan44(a)gmail.com>
Perry, who as far as I know is not affiliated with any collective in the
space, was at the Omni until late last night. He was heavily inebriated and
reeked of alcohol.
In attempting to talk with me, he got incredibly touchy-feely and further
invaded my space, getting so close that I could feel his breath on my skin.
I informed him loudly that touch needs to be consensual in the space and
that he should ask me before touching me. I told him that the safe space
policy is next to the front door and that he should read it. I managed to
get away from him, but he followed me outside.
Ribre (sp?) was outside with her guitar and he sat down next to her,
invaded her space, and tried to strike up a seemingly very uncomfortable
conversation. She told him that whatever he was talking about was something
that he'd have to deal with on his own, not with her, and that she cannot
deal with drunk men, and that they make her unsafe. Instead of ceasing the
conversation, he got closer and tried to tell her that they needed to
continue it.
He continued in this vein for a while longer, until I loudly informed him
that the conversation was not consensual and he needed to stop. He started
to argue with me, however RAYC was able to defuse Perry and lead him away
from the interaction.
I spoke to Kwe and Juul before they left, to make sure I had backup if I
needed to ask Perry to leave the building. Eventually, I was the only
member left in the building, so I asked RAYC to shut down the building for
me, and that I was only comfortable vouching for him and Nicholas. RAYC got
Perry to leave.
I spoke with David Keenan this morning, explaining the situation, and DK
said that he has spoken to Perry in the past about his behaviour,
specifically his behaviour when under the influence of alcohol. I will let
DK speak more to that.
Is anyone aware of a collective that Perry is involved with? In my
conversation with DK, he said that when he spoke to Perry he said he was
with FNB, but was probably lying, as he didn't even know where the kitchen
was. Regardless, I ask that Perry be banned from the Omni, pending
mediation, as his actions clearly violate our safe space policy and he
refused to take action to alter his behaviour.
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
3:35 p.m.
I like the phrase space-invaded because it just made me think of Space
Invaders which made me think of making a Safe Space top-down shooter video
game, which made me smile.
On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 3:27 PM, Jenny Ryan <tunabananas(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Oh, *that* dude. So sorry you were space-invaded, Ryan
:(
I remember being in the mezzanine when Perry was in the ballroom, reading
Sarah's report about the incident with him peeking into the Disco Room,
then overheard him say to someone on the phone about being asked to stop,
"Dude, I was just looking at this beautiful naked dancer, I mean wow" and
turning to Matt or Marc, can't recall, and fuming that I'd love to go kick
that creep out of the space.
Wish I had then. Fully in support of his ban but don't personally have the
bandwidth to steward a mediation process. I think he might know Gabby from
Rise Above, or seemed to be helping / around that area some. CC'ing her to
see if she has his contact info.
/jnny
On 02/03/2015 02:49 PM, David Keenan wrote:
--
Jenny
http://jennyryan.net
http://sudomesh.org
http://thevirtualcampfire.org
http://technomadic.tumblr.com
`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
"Technology is the campfire around which we tell our stories."
-Laurie Anderson
"Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the error of defining it."
-Hannah Arendt
"To define is to kill. To suggest is to create."
-Stéphane Mallarmé
~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
Hi all,
Yes, I agree, this person should persona non grata pending mediation.
Perry is an olderish white guy musician who comes around sometimes, much
of
the time seriously drunk it would appear. Being
drunk seems to clearly
impair his judgement and his actions become invasive to others in the
ways
Ryan describes.
My history with him is only the following. I first talked to him a while
ago asking him to turn down his electric guitar in the ballroom while a
large meeting was taking place in La Commune - he complied. I noticed he
really did reek of alcohol. I asked if he volunteered with any
collective,
he said FNB - but he didn't know where the
kitchen was, or that there was
even a basement, which rang alarm bells for me (ie, it was probably a
fib.)
I later followed up with Helen and Joe and they
said they had never heard
of him, and that sometimes people 'say' theyre in FNB but aren't really..
Anyhow, Perry left the ballroom and wandered upstairs by the kitchen
above
La Commune, now playing the mandolin -
'quietly', yes - but alas still
distracting to those in the large meeting below, and I again asked if he
could play music in the basement or another room in the building until
the
meeting as finished - he complied, but seemed
pretty out of it and not
understanding why (drunk).
I later found out that while upstairs he was 'peeking' into the Disco
Room
on a dance rehearsal that made those inside feel
uncomfortable and Sarah
sent an email out to that effect. Next time I saw him, I re-introduced
myself, took him up to the dance room and let him know that they require
privacy and to not do that. He said he had something of one the dancers
inside and was trying to return it to her.. I did not verify whether this
was true or not, but since the dancers did not seem to know him, it seems
doubtful.
Then, one day after that, he was walking into the building and I
admittedly
gave him a bit of a 'side-eye' on the way
in because I wasn't sure if he
was wasted or what. He himself came up to me and said, "why'd you give me
that look?", and I said, it appears you come into the building drunk, and
we can't have drunk people in here - you aren't known to our community,
and
I don't know what you will do in that state.
I said if you want to get
drunk, try not to come here. To his credit he admitted being drunk the
aforementioned day, agreed it was unacceptable, and said that wasn't
going
to happen again.
But, since it has happened again, to my mind that is grounds to ban him
pending mediation that he will have to arrange.
Does anyone know him, or have his email?
Best,
David
On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 2:20 PM, Ryan <yandoryn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> fwding this to sudo and cdc as well
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Ryan <yandoryn(a)gmail.com>
> Date: Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 1:59 PM
> Subject: Proposed Safe Space Ban: Perry
> To: "discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org"
<discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org>rg>,
> David Keenan <dkeenan44(a)gmail.com>
>
>
> Perry, who as far as I know is not affiliated with any collective in
the
> space, was at the Omni until late last
night. He was heavily
inebriated and
> reeked of alcohol.
>
> In attempting to talk with me, he got incredibly touchy-feely and
further
> invaded my space, getting so close that I
could feel his breath on my
skin.
> I informed him loudly that touch needs to be
consensual in the space
and
> that he should ask me before touching me. I
told him that the safe
space
> policy is next to the front door and that he
should read it. I managed
to
> get away from him, but he followed me
outside.
>
> Ribre (sp?) was outside with her guitar and he sat down next to her,
> invaded her space, and tried to strike up a seemingly very
uncomfortable
> conversation. She told him that whatever he
was talking about was
something
> that he'd have to deal with on his own,
not with her, and that she
cannot
> deal with drunk men, and that they make her
unsafe. Instead of ceasing
the
> conversation, he got closer and tried to
tell her that they needed to
> continue it.
>
> He continued in this vein for a while longer, until I loudly informed
him
> that the conversation was not consensual and
he needed to stop. He
started
> to argue with me, however RAYC was able to
defuse Perry and lead him
away
> from the interaction.
>
> I spoke to Kwe and Juul before they left, to make sure I had backup if
I
> needed to ask Perry to leave the building.
Eventually, I was the only
> member left in the building, so I asked RAYC to shut down the building
for
> me, and that I was only comfortable vouching
for him and Nicholas.
RAYC got
> Perry to leave.
>
> I spoke with David Keenan this morning, explaining the situation, and
DK
> said that he has spoken to Perry in the past
about his behaviour,
> specifically his behaviour when under the influence of alcohol. I will
let
> DK speak more to that.
>
> Is anyone aware of a collective that Perry is involved with? In my
> conversation with DK, he said that when he spoke to Perry he said he
was
> with FNB, but was probably lying, as he
didn't even know where the
kitchen
was.
Regardless, I ask that Perry be banned from the Omni, pending
mediation, as his actions clearly violate our safe space policy and he
refused to take action to alter his behaviour.
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
4:06 p.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] Fwd: Proposed Safe Space Ban: Perry
He's a guitar teacher of some sort, IIRC with a poster in the entry, so
perhaps has some connection to musical activities at Omni. I've
experienced him too, both times somewhat drunk and having lost his sense of
boundaries in part. I didn't feel threatened, but I can see how most
would.
On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 3:35 PM, Ryan <yandoryn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I like the phrase space-invaded because it just made
me think of Space
Invaders which made me think of making a Safe Space top-down shooter video
game, which made me smile.
On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 3:27 PM, Jenny Ryan <tunabananas(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Oh, *that* dude. So sorry you were space-invaded,
Ryan :(
I remember being in the mezzanine when Perry was in the ballroom, reading
Sarah's report about the incident with him peeking into the Disco Room,
then overheard him say to someone on the phone about being asked to stop,
"Dude, I was just looking at this beautiful naked dancer, I mean wow" and
turning to Matt or Marc, can't recall, and fuming that I'd love to go kick
that creep out of the space.
Wish I had then. Fully in support of his ban but don't personally have
the bandwidth to steward a mediation process. I think he might know Gabby
from Rise Above, or seemed to be helping / around that area some. CC'ing
her to see if she has his contact info.
/jnny
On 02/03/2015 02:49 PM, David Keenan wrote:
--
Jenny
http://jennyryan.net
http://sudomesh.org
http://thevirtualcampfire.org
http://technomadic.tumblr.com
`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
"Technology is the campfire around which we tell our stories."
-Laurie Anderson
"Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the error of defining
it."
-Hannah Arendt
"To define is to kill. To suggest is to create."
-Stéphane Mallarmé
~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
Hi all,
Yes, I agree, this person should persona non grata pending mediation.
Perry is an olderish white guy musician who comes around sometimes,
much of
the time seriously drunk it would appear. Being
drunk seems to clearly
impair his judgement and his actions become invasive to others in the
ways
Ryan describes.
My history with him is only the following. I first talked to him a while
ago asking him to turn down his electric guitar in the ballroom while a
large meeting was taking place in La Commune - he complied. I noticed he
really did reek of alcohol. I asked if he volunteered with any
collective,
he said FNB - but he didn't know where the
kitchen was, or that there
was
even a basement, which rang alarm bells for me
(ie, it was probably a
fib.)
I later followed up with Helen and Joe and they
said they had never
heard
of him, and that sometimes people 'say'
theyre in FNB but aren't
really..
Anyhow, Perry left the ballroom and wandered upstairs by the kitchen
above
La Commune, now playing the mandolin -
'quietly', yes - but alas still
distracting to those in the large meeting below, and I again asked if he
could play music in the basement or another room in the building until
the
meeting as finished - he complied, but seemed
pretty out of it and not
understanding why (drunk).
I later found out that while upstairs he was 'peeking' into the Disco
Room
on a dance rehearsal that made those inside feel
uncomfortable and Sarah
sent an email out to that effect. Next time I saw him, I re-introduced
myself, took him up to the dance room and let him know that they require
privacy and to not do that. He said he had something of one the dancers
inside and was trying to return it to her.. I did not verify whether
this
was true or not, but since the dancers did not
seem to know him, it
seems
doubtful.
Then, one day after that, he was walking into the building and I
admittedly
gave him a bit of a 'side-eye' on the way
in because I wasn't sure if he
was wasted or what. He himself came up to me and said, "why'd you give
me
that look?", and I said, it appears you come
into the building drunk,
and
we can't have drunk people in here - you
aren't known to our community,
and
I don't know what you will do in that state.
I said if you want to get
drunk, try not to come here. To his credit he admitted being drunk the
aforementioned day, agreed it was unacceptable, and said that wasn't
going
to happen again.
But, since it has happened again, to my mind that is grounds to ban him
pending mediation that he will have to arrange.
Does anyone know him, or have his email?
Best,
David
On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 2:20 PM, Ryan <yandoryn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> fwding this to sudo and cdc as well
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Ryan <yandoryn(a)gmail.com>
> Date: Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 1:59 PM
> Subject: Proposed Safe Space Ban: Perry
> To: "discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org"
<discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org>rg>,
> David Keenan <dkeenan44(a)gmail.com>
>
>
> Perry, who as far as I know is not affiliated with any collective in
the
> space, was at the Omni until late last
night. He was heavily
inebriated and
> reeked of alcohol.
>
> In attempting to talk with me, he got incredibly touchy-feely and
further
> invaded my space, getting so close that I
could feel his breath on my
skin.
> I informed him loudly that touch needs to be
consensual in the space
and
> that he should ask me before touching me. I
told him that the safe
space
> policy is next to the front door and that he
should read it. I
managed to
> get away from him, but he followed me
outside.
>
> Ribre (sp?) was outside with her guitar and he sat down next to her,
> invaded her space, and tried to strike up a seemingly very
uncomfortable
> conversation. She told him that whatever he
was talking about was
something
> that he'd have to deal with on his own,
not with her, and that she
cannot
> deal with drunk men, and that they make her
unsafe. Instead of
ceasing the
> conversation, he got closer and tried to
tell her that they needed to
> continue it.
>
> He continued in this vein for a while longer, until I loudly informed
him
> that the conversation was not consensual and
he needed to stop. He
started
> to argue with me, however RAYC was able to
defuse Perry and lead him
away
> from the interaction.
>
> I spoke to Kwe and Juul before they left, to make sure I had backup
if I
> needed to ask Perry to leave the building.
Eventually, I was the only
> member left in the building, so I asked RAYC to shut down the
building for
> me, and that I was only comfortable vouching
for him and Nicholas.
RAYC got
> Perry to leave.
>
> I spoke with David Keenan this morning, explaining the situation, and
DK
> said that he has spoken to Perry in the past
about his behaviour,
> specifically his behaviour when under the influence of alcohol. I
will let
> DK speak more to that.
>
> Is anyone aware of a collective that Perry is involved with? In my
> conversation with DK, he said that when he spoke to Perry he said he
was
> with FNB, but was probably lying, as he
didn't even know where the
kitchen
was.
Regardless, I ask that Perry be banned from the Omni, pending
mediation, as his actions clearly violate our safe space policy and he
refused to take action to alter his behaviour.
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
5 Feb
5 Feb
12:02 p.m.
New subject: [omni-cdc] [omni-discuss] Fwd: Proposed Safe Space Ban: Perry
I was hoping someone could clear a few things up:
1) Is Perry, right now, banned from the Omni Commons space?
2) If not, is any member unilaterally empowered to ban him right now?
3) And if that happened, would he only be unbanned is through 100%
consensus of the entire group?
4) And would this consensus be reached at a CDC meeting or another meeting?
-Al
On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 4:06 PM, Steve Bloom <stevebloom55(a)gmail.com> wrote:
He's a guitar teacher of some sort, IIRC with a
poster in the entry, so
perhaps has some connection to musical activities at Omni. I've
experienced him too, both times somewhat drunk and having lost his sense of
boundaries in part. I didn't feel threatened, but I can see how most
would.
On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 3:35 PM, Ryan <yandoryn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I like the phrase space-invaded because it just
made me think of Space
Invaders which made me think of making a Safe Space top-down shooter video
game, which made me smile.
On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 3:27 PM, Jenny Ryan <tunabananas(a)gmail.com> wrote:
_______________________________________________
cdc mailing list
cdc(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/cdc
Oh, *that* dude. So sorry you were space-invaded,
Ryan :(
I remember being in the mezzanine when Perry was in the ballroom,
reading Sarah's report about the incident with him peeking into the Disco
Room, then overheard him say to someone on the phone about being asked to
stop, "Dude, I was just looking at this beautiful naked dancer, I mean wow"
and turning to Matt or Marc, can't recall, and fuming that I'd love to go
kick that creep out of the space.
Wish I had then. Fully in support of his ban but don't personally have
the bandwidth to steward a mediation process. I think he might know Gabby
from Rise Above, or seemed to be helping / around that area some. CC'ing
her to see if she has his contact info.
/jnny
On 02/03/2015 02:49 PM, David Keenan wrote:
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
Hi all,
Yes, I agree, this person should persona non grata pending mediation.
Perry is an olderish white guy musician who comes around sometimes,
much of
the time seriously drunk it would appear. Being
drunk seems to clearly
impair his judgement and his actions become invasive to others in the
ways
Ryan describes.
My history with him is only the following. I first talked to him a
while
ago asking him to turn down his electric guitar
in the ballroom while a
large meeting was taking place in La Commune - he complied. I noticed
he
really did reek of alcohol. I asked if he
volunteered with any
collective,
he said FNB - but he didn't know where the
kitchen was, or that there
was
even a basement, which rang alarm bells for me
(ie, it was probably a
fib.)
I later followed up with Helen and Joe and they
said they had never
heard
of him, and that sometimes people 'say'
theyre in FNB but aren't
really..
Anyhow, Perry left the ballroom and wandered upstairs by the kitchen
above
La Commune, now playing the mandolin -
'quietly', yes - but alas still
distracting to those in the large meeting below, and I again asked if
he
could play music in the basement or another room
in the building until
the
meeting as finished - he complied, but seemed
pretty out of it and not
understanding why (drunk).
I later found out that while upstairs he was 'peeking' into the Disco
Room
on a dance rehearsal that made those inside feel
uncomfortable and
Sarah
sent an email out to that effect. Next time I saw
him, I re-introduced
myself, took him up to the dance room and let him know that they
require
privacy and to not do that. He said he had
something of one the dancers
inside and was trying to return it to her.. I did not verify whether
this
was true or not, but since the dancers did not
seem to know him, it
seems
doubtful.
Then, one day after that, he was walking into the building and I
admittedly
gave him a bit of a 'side-eye' on the way
in because I wasn't sure if
he
was wasted or what. He himself came up to me and
said, "why'd you give
me
that look?", and I said, it appears you come
into the building drunk,
and
we can't have drunk people in here - you
aren't known to our
community, and
I don't know what you will do in that state.
I said if you want to get
drunk, try not to come here. To his credit he admitted being drunk the
aforementioned day, agreed it was unacceptable, and said that wasn't
going
to happen again.
But, since it has happened again, to my mind that is grounds to ban him
pending mediation that he will have to arrange.
Does anyone know him, or have his email?
Best,
David
On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 2:20 PM, Ryan <yandoryn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> fwding this to sudo and cdc as well
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Ryan <yandoryn(a)gmail.com>
> Date: Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 1:59 PM
> Subject: Proposed Safe Space Ban: Perry
> To: "discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org"
<discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org>rg>,
> David Keenan <dkeenan44(a)gmail.com>
>
>
> Perry, who as far as I know is not affiliated with any collective in
the
> space, was at the Omni until late last
night. He was heavily
inebriated and
> reeked of alcohol.
>
> In attempting to talk with me, he got incredibly touchy-feely and
further
> invaded my space, getting so close that I
could feel his breath on
my skin.
> I informed him loudly that touch needs to be
consensual in the space
and
> that he should ask me before touching me. I
told him that the safe
space
> policy is next to the front door and that he
should read it. I
managed to
> get away from him, but he followed me
outside.
>
> Ribre (sp?) was outside with her guitar and he sat down next to her,
> invaded her space, and tried to strike up a seemingly very
uncomfortable
> conversation. She told him that whatever he
was talking about was
something
> that he'd have to deal with on his own,
not with her, and that she
cannot
> deal with drunk men, and that they make her
unsafe. Instead of
ceasing the
> conversation, he got closer and tried to
tell her that they needed to
> continue it.
>
> He continued in this vein for a while longer, until I loudly
informed him
> that the conversation was not consensual and
he needed to stop. He
started
> to argue with me, however RAYC was able to
defuse Perry and lead him
away
> from the interaction.
>
> I spoke to Kwe and Juul before they left, to make sure I had backup
if I
> needed to ask Perry to leave the building.
Eventually, I was the only
> member left in the building, so I asked RAYC to shut down the
building for
> me, and that I was only comfortable vouching
for him and Nicholas.
RAYC got
> Perry to leave.
>
> I spoke with David Keenan this morning, explaining the situation,
and DK
> said that he has spoken to Perry in the past
about his behaviour,
> specifically his behaviour when under the influence of alcohol. I
will let
> DK speak more to that.
>
> Is anyone aware of a collective that Perry is involved with? In my
> conversation with DK, he said that when he spoke to Perry he said he
was
> with FNB, but was probably lying, as he
didn't even know where the
kitchen
> was. Regardless, I ask that Perry be banned
from the Omni, pending
> mediation, as his actions clearly violate our safe space policy and
he
> refused to take action to alter his
behaviour.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sudo-discuss mailing list
> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>
>
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
--
Jenny
http://jennyryan.net
http://sudomesh.org
http://thevirtualcampfire.org
http://technomadic.tumblr.com
`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
"Technology is the campfire around which we tell our stories."
-Laurie Anderson
"Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the error of defining
it."
-Hannah Arendt
"To define is to kill. To suggest is to create."
-Stéphane Mallarmé
~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
3:12 p.m.
New subject: Proposed Safe Space Ban: Perry
On Thursday, February 5, 2015, Al Sweigart <asweigart(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I was hoping someone could clear a few things up:
1) Is Perry, right now, banned from the Omni Commons space?
Yes, any member (but not guest) is empowered to temporarily ban - pending
conflict mediation - anyone else so following a safe space violation which
is what this is. I will bring it up also at the delegates meeting. See our
Safe Space and Conflict Resolution policies on our wiki (on phone, don't
have the links to hand but they are in the sidebar)
2) If not, is any member unilaterally empowered to ban
him right now?
See above
3) And if that happened, would he only be unbanned is
through 100%
consensus of the entire group?
He would be unbanned following the process set forth in Conflict Resolution.
4) And would this consensus be reached at a CDC
meeting or another meeting?
See conflict resolution process. Thanks!
-Al
On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 4:06 PM, Steve Bloom <stevebloom55(a)gmail.com
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','stevebloom55@gmail.com');>>
wrote:
He's a guitar teacher of some sort, IIRC with
a poster in the entry, so
perhaps has some connection to musical activities at Omni. I've
experienced him too, both times somewhat drunk and having lost his sense of
boundaries in part. I didn't feel threatened, but I can see how most
would.
On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 3:35 PM, Ryan <yandoryn(a)gmail.com
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','yandoryn@gmail.com');>> wrote:
I like the phrase space-invaded because it just
made me think of Space
Invaders which made me think of making a Safe Space top-down shooter video
game, which made me smile.
On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 3:27 PM, Jenny Ryan <tunabananas(a)gmail.com
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','tunabananas@gmail.com');>> wrote:
_______________________________________________
cdc mailing list
cdc(a)lists.omnicommons.org
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','cdc@lists.omnicommons.org');>
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/cdc
Oh, *that* dude. So sorry you were space-invaded,
Ryan :(
I remember being in the mezzanine when Perry was in the ballroom,
reading Sarah's report about the incident with him peeking into the Disco
Room, then overheard him say to someone on the phone about being asked to
stop, "Dude, I was just looking at this beautiful naked dancer, I mean wow"
and turning to Matt or Marc, can't recall, and fuming that I'd love to go
kick that creep out of the space.
Wish I had then. Fully in support of his ban but don't personally have
the bandwidth to steward a mediation process. I think he might know Gabby
from Rise Above, or seemed to be helping / around that area some. CC'ing
her to see if she has his contact info.
/jnny
On 02/03/2015 02:49 PM, David Keenan wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Yes, I agree, this person should persona non grata pending mediation.
>
> Perry is an olderish white guy musician who comes around sometimes,
much of
> the time seriously drunk it would appear. Being drunk seems to clearly
> impair his judgement and his actions become invasive to others in the
ways
> Ryan describes.
>
> My history with him is only the following. I first talked to him a
while
> ago asking him to turn down his electric guitar in the ballroom while
a
> large meeting was taking place in La Commune - he complied. I noticed
he
> really did reek of alcohol. I asked if he volunteered with any
collective,
> he said FNB - but he didn't know where the kitchen was, or that there
was
> even a basement, which rang alarm bells for me (ie, it was probably a
fib.)
> I later followed up with Helen and Joe and they said they had never
heard
> of him, and that sometimes people 'say' theyre in FNB but aren't
really..
>
> Anyhow, Perry left the ballroom and wandered upstairs by the kitchen
above
> La Commune, now playing the mandolin - 'quietly', yes - but alas still
> distracting to those in the large meeting below, and I again asked if
he
> could play music in the basement or another room in the building
until the
> meeting as finished - he complied, but seemed pretty out of it and not
> understanding why (drunk).
>
> I later found out that while upstairs he was 'peeking' into the Disco
Room
> on a dance rehearsal that made those inside feel uncomfortable and
Sarah
> sent an email out to that effect. Next time I saw him, I re-introduced
> myself, took him up to the dance room and let him know that they
require
> privacy and to not do that. He said he had something of one the
dancers
> inside and was trying to return it to her.. I did not verify whether
this
> was true or not, but since the dancers did not seem to know him, it
seems
> doubtful.
>
> Then, one day after that, he was walking into the building and I
admittedly
> gave him a bit of a 'side-eye' on the way in because I wasn't sure if
he
> was wasted or what. He himself came up to me and said, "why'd you
give me
> that look?", and I said, it appears you come into the building drunk,
and
> we can't have drunk people in here - you aren't known to our
community, and
> I don't know what you will do in that state. I said if you want to get
> drunk, try not to come here. To his credit he admitted being drunk the
> aforementioned day, agreed it was unacceptable, and said that wasn't
going
> to happen again.
>
> But, since it has happened again, to my mind that is grounds to ban
him
> pending mediation that he will have to arrange.
>
> Does anyone know him, or have his email?
>
> Best,
> David
>
> On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 2:20 PM, Ryan <yandoryn(a)gmail.com
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','yandoryn@gmail.com');>> wrote:
>
> > fwding this to sudo and cdc as well
> >
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: Ryan <yandoryn(a)gmail.com
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','yandoryn@gmail.com');>>
> > Date: Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 1:59 PM
> > Subject: Proposed Safe Space Ban: Perry
> > To: "discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','discuss@lists.omnicommons.org');>"
<
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','discuss@lists.omnicommons.org');>>,
> > David Keenan <dkeenan44(a)gmail.com
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','dkeenan44@gmail.com');>>
> >
> >
> > Perry, who as far as I know is not affiliated with any collective
in the
> > space, was at the Omni until late last night. He was heavily
inebriated and
> > reeked of alcohol.
> >
> > In attempting to talk with me, he got incredibly touchy-feely and
further
> > invaded my space, getting so close that I could feel his breath on
my skin.
> > I informed him loudly that touch needs to be consensual in the
space and
> > that he should ask me before touching me. I told him that the safe
space
> > policy is next to the front door and that he should read it. I
managed to
> > get away from him, but he followed me outside.
> >
> > Ribre (sp?) was outside with her guitar and he sat down next to her,
> > invaded her space, and tried to strike up a seemingly very
uncomfortable
> > conversation. She told him that whatever he was talking about was
something
> > that he'd have to deal with on his own, not with her, and that she
cannot
> > deal with drunk men, and that they make her unsafe. Instead of
ceasing the
> > conversation, he got closer and tried to tell her that they needed
to
> > continue it.
> >
> > He continued in this vein for a while longer, until I loudly
informed him
> > that the conversation was not consensual and he needed to stop. He
started
> > to argue with me, however RAYC was able to defuse Perry and lead
him away
> > from the interaction.
> >
> > I spoke to Kwe and Juul before they left, to make sure I had backup
if I
> > needed to ask Perry to leave the building. Eventually, I was the
only
> > member left in the building, so I asked RAYC to shut down the
building for
> > me, and that I was only comfortable vouching for him and Nicholas.
RAYC got
> > Perry to leave.
> >
> > I spoke with David Keenan this morning, explaining the situation,
and DK
> > said that he has spoken to Perry in the past about his behaviour,
> > specifically his behaviour when under the influence of alcohol. I
will let
> > DK speak more to that.
> >
> > Is anyone aware of a collective that Perry is involved with? In my
> > conversation with DK, he said that when he spoke to Perry he said
he was
> > with FNB, but was probably lying, as he didn't even know where the
kitchen
> > was. Regardless, I ask that Perry be banned from the Omni, pending
> > mediation, as his actions clearly violate our safe space policy and
he
> > refused to take action to alter his behaviour.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > sudo-discuss mailing list
> > sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org');>
> > https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> >
> >
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sudo-discuss mailing list
> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org');>
> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>
--
Jenny
http://jennyryan.net
http://sudomesh.org
http://thevirtualcampfire.org
http://technomadic.tumblr.com
`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
"Technology is the campfire around which we tell our stories."
-Laurie Anderson
"Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the error of defining
it."
-Hannah Arendt
"To define is to kill. To suggest is to create."
-Stéphane Mallarmé
~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org');>
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','discuss@lists.omnicommons.org');>
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
6 Feb
6 Feb
10:31 a.m.
New subject: Proposed Safe Space Ban: Perry
Okay. So if I'm reading this right, the CRP has a mediation process where
terminating a membership requires 2/3 vote. However, for safe space issues
someone can be temporarily banned immediately by an individual member,
which can then only be overturned by a 100% consensus (under the "All other
conflicts" category in the CRP)? Or when it says "a temporary ban may be
put in place until the Omni's conflict resolution process can be followed
to resolution" does that mean they are banned until a 2/3 vote to
permanently ban them is made (as it says in the CRP)?
Basically, I want to know if, after the temp ban, it takes a 100% vote to
unban the abusive person or a 66% vote to ban the abusive person. The CRP
and Safer Space Policy aren't clear cut on that (unless I'm missing
something in the wording).
On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 3:12 PM, David Keenan <dkeenan44(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Thursday, February 5, 2015, Al Sweigart <asweigart(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I was hoping someone could clear a few things
up:
1) Is Perry, right now, banned from the Omni Commons space?
Yes, any member (but not guest) is empowered to temporarily ban - pending
conflict mediation - anyone else so following a safe space violation which
is what this is. I will bring it up also at the delegates meeting. See our
Safe Space and Conflict Resolution policies on our wiki (on phone, don't
have the links to hand but they are in the sidebar)
2) If not, is any member unilaterally empowered
to ban him right now?
See above
3) And if that happened, would he only be
unbanned is through 100%
consensus of the entire group?
He would be unbanned following the process set forth in Conflict
Resolution.
4) And would this consensus be reached at a CDC
meeting or another
meeting?
See conflict resolution process. Thanks!
>
> -Al
>
> On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 4:06 PM, Steve Bloom <stevebloom55(a)gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> He's a guitar teacher of some sort, IIRC with a poster in the entry, so
>> perhaps has some connection to musical activities at Omni. I've
>> experienced him too, both times somewhat drunk and having lost his sense of
>> boundaries in part. I didn't feel threatened, but I can see how most
>> would.
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 3:35 PM, Ryan <yandoryn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I like the phrase space-invaded because it just made me think of Space
>>> Invaders which made me think of making a Safe Space top-down shooter video
>>> game, which made me smile.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 3:27 PM, Jenny Ryan <tunabananas(a)gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Oh, *that* dude. So sorry you were space-invaded, Ryan :(
>>>>
>>>> I remember being in the mezzanine when Perry was in the ballroom,
>>>> reading Sarah's report about the incident with him peeking into the
Disco
>>>> Room, then overheard him say to someone on the phone about being asked
to
>>>> stop, "Dude, I was just looking at this beautiful naked dancer, I
mean wow"
>>>> and turning to Matt or Marc, can't recall, and fuming that I'd
love to go
>>>> kick that creep out of the space.
>>>>
>>>> Wish I had then. Fully in support of his ban but don't personally
have
>>>> the bandwidth to steward a mediation process. I think he might know
Gabby
>>>> from Rise Above, or seemed to be helping / around that area some.
CC'ing
>>>> her to see if she has his contact info.
>>>>
>>>> /jnny
>>>>
>>>> On 02/03/2015 02:49 PM, David Keenan wrote:
>>>> > Hi all,
>>>> >
>>>> > Yes, I agree, this person should persona non grata pending
mediation.
>>>> >
>>>> > Perry is an olderish white guy musician who comes around sometimes,
>>>> much of
>>>> > the time seriously drunk it would appear. Being drunk seems to
>>>> clearly
>>>> > impair his judgement and his actions become invasive to others in
>>>> the ways
>>>> > Ryan describes.
>>>> >
>>>> > My history with him is only the following. I first talked to him a
>>>> while
>>>> > ago asking him to turn down his electric guitar in the ballroom
>>>> while a
>>>> > large meeting was taking place in La Commune - he complied. I
>>>> noticed he
>>>> > really did reek of alcohol. I asked if he volunteered with any
>>>> collective,
>>>> > he said FNB - but he didn't know where the kitchen was, or that
>>>> there was
>>>> > even a basement, which rang alarm bells for me (ie, it was probably
>>>> a fib.)
>>>> > I later followed up with Helen and Joe and they said they had never
>>>> heard
>>>> > of him, and that sometimes people 'say' theyre in FNB but
aren't
>>>> really..
>>>> >
>>>> > Anyhow, Perry left the ballroom and wandered upstairs by the
kitchen
>>>> above
>>>> > La Commune, now playing the mandolin - 'quietly', yes - but
alas
>>>> still
>>>> > distracting to those in the large meeting below, and I again asked
>>>> if he
>>>> > could play music in the basement or another room in the building
>>>> until the
>>>> > meeting as finished - he complied, but seemed pretty out of it and
>>>> not
>>>> > understanding why (drunk).
>>>> >
>>>> > I later found out that while upstairs he was 'peeking' into
the
>>>> Disco Room
>>>> > on a dance rehearsal that made those inside feel uncomfortable and
>>>> Sarah
>>>> > sent an email out to that effect. Next time I saw him, I
>>>> re-introduced
>>>> > myself, took him up to the dance room and let him know that they
>>>> require
>>>> > privacy and to not do that. He said he had something of one the
>>>> dancers
>>>> > inside and was trying to return it to her.. I did not verify
whether
>>>> this
>>>> > was true or not, but since the dancers did not seem to know him, it
>>>> seems
>>>> > doubtful.
>>>> >
>>>> > Then, one day after that, he was walking into the building and I
>>>> admittedly
>>>> > gave him a bit of a 'side-eye' on the way in because I
wasn't sure
>>>> if he
>>>> > was wasted or what. He himself came up to me and said,
"why'd you
>>>> give me
>>>> > that look?", and I said, it appears you come into the building
>>>> drunk, and
>>>> > we can't have drunk people in here - you aren't known to
our
>>>> community, and
>>>> > I don't know what you will do in that state. I said if you want
to
>>>> get
>>>> > drunk, try not to come here. To his credit he admitted being drunk
>>>> the
>>>> > aforementioned day, agreed it was unacceptable, and said that
wasn't
>>>> going
>>>> > to happen again.
>>>> >
>>>> > But, since it has happened again, to my mind that is grounds to ban
>>>> him
>>>> > pending mediation that he will have to arrange.
>>>> >
>>>> > Does anyone know him, or have his email?
>>>> >
>>>> > Best,
>>>> > David
>>>> >
>>>> > On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 2:20 PM, Ryan <yandoryn(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > > fwding this to sudo and cdc as well
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>> > > From: Ryan <yandoryn(a)gmail.com>
>>>> > > Date: Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 1:59 PM
>>>> > > Subject: Proposed Safe Space Ban: Perry
>>>> > > To: "discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org"
<discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
>>>> >,
>>>> > > David Keenan <dkeenan44(a)gmail.com>
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Perry, who as far as I know is not affiliated with any
collective
>>>> in the
>>>> > > space, was at the Omni until late last night. He was heavily
>>>> inebriated and
>>>> > > reeked of alcohol.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > In attempting to talk with me, he got incredibly touchy-feely
and
>>>> further
>>>> > > invaded my space, getting so close that I could feel his breath
on
>>>> my skin.
>>>> > > I informed him loudly that touch needs to be consensual in the
>>>> space and
>>>> > > that he should ask me before touching me. I told him that the
safe
>>>> space
>>>> > > policy is next to the front door and that he should read it. I
>>>> managed to
>>>> > > get away from him, but he followed me outside.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Ribre (sp?) was outside with her guitar and he sat down next
to
>>>> her,
>>>> > > invaded her space, and tried to strike up a seemingly very
>>>> uncomfortable
>>>> > > conversation. She told him that whatever he was talking about
was
>>>> something
>>>> > > that he'd have to deal with on his own, not with her, and
that she
>>>> cannot
>>>> > > deal with drunk men, and that they make her unsafe. Instead of
>>>> ceasing the
>>>> > > conversation, he got closer and tried to tell her that they
needed
>>>> to
>>>> > > continue it.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > He continued in this vein for a while longer, until I loudly
>>>> informed him
>>>> > > that the conversation was not consensual and he needed to stop.
He
>>>> started
>>>> > > to argue with me, however RAYC was able to defuse Perry and
lead
>>>> him away
>>>> > > from the interaction.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > I spoke to Kwe and Juul before they left, to make sure I had
>>>> backup if I
>>>> > > needed to ask Perry to leave the building. Eventually, I was
the
>>>> only
>>>> > > member left in the building, so I asked RAYC to shut down the
>>>> building for
>>>> > > me, and that I was only comfortable vouching for him and
Nicholas.
>>>> RAYC got
>>>> > > Perry to leave.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > I spoke with David Keenan this morning, explaining the
situation,
>>>> and DK
>>>> > > said that he has spoken to Perry in the past about his
behaviour,
>>>> > > specifically his behaviour when under the influence of alcohol.
I
>>>> will let
>>>> > > DK speak more to that.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Is anyone aware of a collective that Perry is involved with? In
my
>>>> > > conversation with DK, he said that when he spoke to Perry he
said
>>>> he was
>>>> > > with FNB, but was probably lying, as he didn't even know
where the
>>>> kitchen
>>>> > > was. Regardless, I ask that Perry be banned from the Omni,
pending
>>>> > > mediation, as his actions clearly violate our safe space
policy
>>>> and he
>>>> > > refused to take action to alter his behaviour.
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > _______________________________________________
>>>> > > sudo-discuss mailing list
>>>> > > sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
>>>> > > https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > sudo-discuss mailing list
>>>> > sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
>>>> > https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Jenny
>>>> http://jennyryan.net
>>>> http://sudomesh.org
>>>> http://thevirtualcampfire.org
>>>> http://technomadic.tumblr.com
>>>>
>>>> `~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
>>>> "Technology is the campfire around which we tell our stories."
>>>> -Laurie Anderson
>>>>
>>>> "Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the error of
defining
>>>> it."
>>>> -Hannah Arendt
>>>>
>>>> "To define is to kill. To suggest is to create."
>>>> -Stéphane Mallarmé
>>>> ~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
>>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> discuss mailing list
>>> discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
>>> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> cdc mailing list
>> cdc(a)lists.omnicommons.org
>> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/cdc
>>
>>
> 
3:09 p.m.
New subject: Proposed Safe Space Ban: Perry
Rah rah policy and whatnot.
Sudo room follows the rules until it doesn't make sense to follow the rules.
This thread (along with other previous threads) has seen a lot of energy put
into dissecting the intricate hoops of policy and procedure that have been
built to figure out loopholes and whatnot. They're quite ornate, really.
Wonderful things, if thats your kink.
Instead of investing more energy into this flavor of turing tarpit by throwing
around voting percentages, decision approval workflows, ambiguous wording, and
whatnot, maybe its best to start by revisiting the original problem:
How does Sudo Room, as a member of the Omni collective-of-collectives, keep
the people they want at Sudo Room and reliably push away people who don't
belong?
(For the record, I try to avoid the wednesday meetings because during my last
few visits I almost fell asleep when it turned into omni delegate meeting
discussion about how to lawyer it out in "consensus")
On Friday, February 06, 2015 10:31:14 AM Al Sweigart wrote:
Okay. So if I'm reading this right, the CRP has a
mediation process where
terminating a membership requires 2/3 vote. However, for safe space issues
someone can be temporarily banned immediately by an individual member,
which can then only be overturned by a 100% consensus (under the "All other
conflicts" category in the CRP)? Or when it says "a temporary ban may be
put in place until the Omni's conflict resolution process can be followed
to resolution" does that mean they are banned until a 2/3 vote to
permanently ban them is made (as it says in the CRP)?
Basically, I want to know if, after the temp ban, it takes a 100% vote to
unban the abusive person or a 66% vote to ban the abusive person. The CRP
and Safer Space Policy aren't clear cut on that (unless I'm missing
something in the wording).
On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 3:12 PM, David Keenan <dkeenan44(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thursday, February 5, 2015, Al Sweigart <asweigart(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>> I was hoping someone could clear a few things up:
>>
>> 1) Is Perry, right now, banned from the Omni Commons space?
>
> Yes, any member (but not guest) is empowered to temporarily ban - pending
> conflict mediation - anyone else so following a safe space violation which
> is what this is. I will bring it up also at the delegates meeting. See our
> Safe Space and Conflict Resolution policies on our wiki (on phone, don't
> have the links to hand but they are in the sidebar)
>
>> 2) If not, is any member unilaterally empowered to ban him right now?
>
> See above
>
>> 3) And if that happened, would he only be unbanned is through 100%
>> consensus of the entire group?
>
> He would be unbanned following the process set forth in Conflict
> Resolution.
>
>> 4) And would this consensus be reached at a CDC meeting or another
>> meeting?
>
> See conflict resolution process. Thanks!
>
>> -Al
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 4:06 PM, Steve Bloom <stevebloom55(a)gmail.com>
>>
>> wrote:
>>> He's a guitar teacher of some sort, IIRC with a poster in the entry, so
>>> perhaps has some connection to musical activities at Omni. I've
>>> experienced him too, both times somewhat drunk and having lost his sense
>>> of
>>> boundaries in part. I didn't feel threatened, but I can see how most
>>> would.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 3:35 PM, Ryan <yandoryn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I like the phrase space-invaded because it just made me think of Space
>>>> Invaders which made me think of making a Safe Space top-down shooter
>>>> video
>>>> game, which made me smile.
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 3:27 PM, Jenny Ryan
<tunabananas(a)gmail.com>
>>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Oh, *that* dude. So sorry you were space-invaded, Ryan :(
>>>>>
>>>>> I remember being in the mezzanine when Perry was in the ballroom,
>>>>> reading Sarah's report about the incident with him peeking into
the
>>>>> Disco
>>>>> Room, then overheard him say to someone on the phone about being
asked
>>>>> to
>>>>> stop, "Dude, I was just looking at this beautiful naked dancer,
I mean
>>>>> wow"
>>>>> and turning to Matt or Marc, can't recall, and fuming that
I'd love to
>>>>> go
>>>>> kick that creep out of the space.
>>>>>
>>>>> Wish I had then. Fully in support of his ban but don't
personally have
>>>>> the bandwidth to steward a mediation process. I think he might know
>>>>> Gabby
>>>>> from Rise Above, or seemed to be helping / around that area some.
>>>>> CC'ing
>>>>> her to see if she has his contact info.
>>>>>
>>>>> /jnny
>>>>>
>>>>> On 02/03/2015 02:49 PM, David Keenan wrote:
>>>>> > Hi all,
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Yes, I agree, this person should persona non grata pending
>>>>> > mediation.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Perry is an olderish white guy musician who comes around
sometimes,
>>>>>
>>>>> much of
>>>>>
>>>>> > the time seriously drunk it would appear. Being drunk seems to
>>>>>
>>>>> clearly
>>>>>
>>>>> > impair his judgement and his actions become invasive to others
in
>>>>>
>>>>> the ways
>>>>>
>>>>> > Ryan describes.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > My history with him is only the following. I first talked to
him a
>>>>>
>>>>> while
>>>>>
>>>>> > ago asking him to turn down his electric guitar in the
ballroom
>>>>>
>>>>> while a
>>>>>
>>>>> > large meeting was taking place in La Commune - he complied. I
>>>>>
>>>>> noticed he
>>>>>
>>>>> > really did reek of alcohol. I asked if he volunteered with any
>>>>>
>>>>> collective,
>>>>>
>>>>> > he said FNB - but he didn't know where the kitchen was, or
that
>>>>>
>>>>> there was
>>>>>
>>>>> > even a basement, which rang alarm bells for me (ie, it was
probably
>>>>>
>>>>> a fib.)
>>>>>
>>>>> > I later followed up with Helen and Joe and they said they had
never
>>>>>
>>>>> heard
>>>>>
>>>>> > of him, and that sometimes people 'say' theyre in FNB
but aren't
>>>>>
>>>>> really..
>>>>>
>>>>> > Anyhow, Perry left the ballroom and wandered upstairs by the
kitchen
>>>>>
>>>>> above
>>>>>
>>>>> > La Commune, now playing the mandolin - 'quietly', yes -
but alas
>>>>>
>>>>> still
>>>>>
>>>>> > distracting to those in the large meeting below, and I again
asked
>>>>>
>>>>> if he
>>>>>
>>>>> > could play music in the basement or another room in the
building
>>>>>
>>>>> until the
>>>>>
>>>>> > meeting as finished - he complied, but seemed pretty out of it
and
>>>>>
>>>>> not
>>>>>
>>>>> > understanding why (drunk).
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I later found out that while upstairs he was 'peeking'
into the
>>>>>
>>>>> Disco Room
>>>>>
>>>>> > on a dance rehearsal that made those inside feel uncomfortable
and
>>>>>
>>>>> Sarah
>>>>>
>>>>> > sent an email out to that effect. Next time I saw him, I
>>>>>
>>>>> re-introduced
>>>>>
>>>>> > myself, took him up to the dance room and let him know that
they
>>>>>
>>>>> require
>>>>>
>>>>> > privacy and to not do that. He said he had something of one
the
>>>>>
>>>>> dancers
>>>>>
>>>>> > inside and was trying to return it to her.. I did not verify
whether
>>>>>
>>>>> this
>>>>>
>>>>> > was true or not, but since the dancers did not seem to know
him, it
>>>>>
>>>>> seems
>>>>>
>>>>> > doubtful.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Then, one day after that, he was walking into the building and
I
>>>>>
>>>>> admittedly
>>>>>
>>>>> > gave him a bit of a 'side-eye' on the way in because I
wasn't sure
>>>>>
>>>>> if he
>>>>>
>>>>> > was wasted or what. He himself came up to me and said,
"why'd you
>>>>>
>>>>> give me
>>>>>
>>>>> > that look?", and I said, it appears you come into the
building
>>>>>
>>>>> drunk, and
>>>>>
>>>>> > we can't have drunk people in here - you aren't known
to our
>>>>>
>>>>> community, and
>>>>>
>>>>> > I don't know what you will do in that state. I said if you
want to
>>>>>
>>>>> get
>>>>>
>>>>> > drunk, try not to come here. To his credit he admitted being
drunk
>>>>>
>>>>> the
>>>>>
>>>>> > aforementioned day, agreed it was unacceptable, and said that
wasn't
>>>>>
>>>>> going
>>>>>
>>>>> > to happen again.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > But, since it has happened again, to my mind that is grounds to
ban
>>>>>
>>>>> him
>>>>>
>>>>> > pending mediation that he will have to arrange.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Does anyone know him, or have his email?
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Best,
>>>>> > David
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 2:20 PM, Ryan <yandoryn(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
>>>>> > > fwding this to sudo and cdc as well
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>>> > > From: Ryan <yandoryn(a)gmail.com>
>>>>> > > Date: Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 1:59 PM
>>>>> > > Subject: Proposed Safe Space Ban: Perry
>>>>> > > To: "discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org"
<discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
>>>>> >
>>>>> >,
>>>>> >
>>>>> > > David Keenan <dkeenan44(a)gmail.com>
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > Perry, who as far as I know is not affiliated with any
collective
>>>>>
>>>>> in the
>>>>>
>>>>> > > space, was at the Omni until late last night. He was
heavily
>>>>>
>>>>> inebriated and
>>>>>
>>>>> > > reeked of alcohol.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > In attempting to talk with me, he got incredibly
touchy-feely and
>>>>>
>>>>> further
>>>>>
>>>>> > > invaded my space, getting so close that I could feel his
breath on
>>>>>
>>>>> my skin.
>>>>>
>>>>> > > I informed him loudly that touch needs to be consensual in
the
>>>>>
>>>>> space and
>>>>>
>>>>> > > that he should ask me before touching me. I told him that
the safe
>>>>>
>>>>> space
>>>>>
>>>>> > > policy is next to the front door and that he should read
it. I
>>>>>
>>>>> managed to
>>>>>
>>>>> > > get away from him, but he followed me outside.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > Ribre (sp?) was outside with her guitar and he sat down
next to
>>>>>
>>>>> her,
>>>>>
>>>>> > > invaded her space, and tried to strike up a seemingly
very
>>>>>
>>>>> uncomfortable
>>>>>
>>>>> > > conversation. She told him that whatever he was talking
about was
>>>>>
>>>>> something
>>>>>
>>>>> > > that he'd have to deal with on his own, not with her,
and that she
>>>>>
>>>>> cannot
>>>>>
>>>>> > > deal with drunk men, and that they make her unsafe.
Instead of
>>>>>
>>>>> ceasing the
>>>>>
>>>>> > > conversation, he got closer and tried to tell her that
they needed
>>>>>
>>>>> to
>>>>>
>>>>> > > continue it.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > He continued in this vein for a while longer, until I
loudly
>>>>>
>>>>> informed him
>>>>>
>>>>> > > that the conversation was not consensual and he needed to
stop. He
>>>>>
>>>>> started
>>>>>
>>>>> > > to argue with me, however RAYC was able to defuse Perry
and lead
>>>>>
>>>>> him away
>>>>>
>>>>> > > from the interaction.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > I spoke to Kwe and Juul before they left, to make sure I
had
>>>>>
>>>>> backup if I
>>>>>
>>>>> > > needed to ask Perry to leave the building. Eventually, I
was the
>>>>>
>>>>> only
>>>>>
>>>>> > > member left in the building, so I asked RAYC to shut down
the
>>>>>
>>>>> building for
>>>>>
>>>>> > > me, and that I was only comfortable vouching for him and
Nicholas.
>>>>>
>>>>> RAYC got
>>>>>
>>>>> > > Perry to leave.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > I spoke with David Keenan this morning, explaining the
situation,
>>>>>
>>>>> and DK
>>>>>
>>>>> > > said that he has spoken to Perry in the past about his
behaviour,
>>>>> > > specifically his behaviour when under the influence of
alcohol. I
>>>>>
>>>>> will let
>>>>>
>>>>> > > DK speak more to that.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > Is anyone aware of a collective that Perry is involved
with? In my
>>>>> > > conversation with DK, he said that when he spoke to Perry
he said
>>>>>
>>>>> he was
>>>>>
>>>>> > > with FNB, but was probably lying, as he didn't even
know where the
>>>>>
>>>>> kitchen
>>>>>
>>>>> > > was. Regardless, I ask that Perry be banned from the Omni,
pending
>>>>> > > mediation, as his actions clearly violate our safe space
policy
>>>>>
>>>>> and he
>>>>>
>>>>> > > refused to take action to alter his behaviour.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > _______________________________________________
>>>>> > > sudo-discuss mailing list
>>>>> > > sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
>>>>> > > https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>>> >
>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>> > sudo-discuss mailing list
>>>>> > sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
>>>>> > https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> Jenny
>>>>> http://jennyryan.net
>>>>> http://sudomesh.org
>>>>> http://thevirtualcampfire.org
>>>>> http://technomadic.tumblr.com
>>>>>
>>>>> `~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
>>>>> "Technology is the campfire around which we tell our
stories."
>>>>> -Laurie Anderson
>>>>>
>>>>> "Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the error of
defining
>>>>> it."
>>>>> -Hannah Arendt
>>>>>
>>>>> "To define is to kill. To suggest is to create."
>>>>> -Stéphane Mallarmé
>>>>> ~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
>>>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> discuss mailing list
>>>> discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
>>>> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> cdc mailing list
>>> cdc(a)lists.omnicommons.org
>>> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/cdc
7 Feb
7 Feb
11:06 p.m.
New subject: Proposed Safe Space Ban: Perry
Sudo room follows the rules until it doesn't make
sense to follow the
rules.
Isn't that just the same thing as selectively enforcing the rules? If the
rules "don't make sense", it should be easy enough to get everyone to vote
to modify/delete/append the rules. Otherwise, this is just asking for
popular people in the group getting to decide when the rules don't apply to
them.
It's easy enough to boot abusive people from Omni Commons when they're
drunk and getting into women's personal space and being a creep. But where
the policies of a space are tested is if they hold up against powerful
people. That goes for groups of people big and small.
So, I kind of figured that mine would be an easy question to answer (Is it
66% to ban or 100% to unban?) but if no one actually knows the answer, then
it points to something that should probably be discussed.
On Fri, Feb 6, 2015 at 3:09 PM, Torrie Fischer <tdfischer(a)hackerbots.net>
wrote:
> Rah rah policy and whatnot.
>
Sudo room follows the rules until it doesn't make
sense to follow the
> rules.
>
> This thread (along with other previous threads) has seen a lot of energy
> put
> into dissecting the intricate hoops of policy and procedure that have been
> built to figure out loopholes and whatnot. They're quite ornate, really.
> Wonderful things, if thats your kink.
>
> Instead of investing more energy into this flavor of turing tarpit by
> throwing
> around voting percentages, decision approval workflows, ambiguous wording,
> and
> whatnot, maybe its best to start by revisiting the original problem:
>
> How does Sudo Room, as a member of the Omni collective-of-collectives, keep
> the people they want at Sudo Room and reliably push away people who don't
> belong?
>
> (For the record, I try to avoid the wednesday meetings because during my
> last
> few visits I almost fell asleep when it turned into omni delegate meeting
> discussion about how to lawyer it out in "consensus")
>
> On Friday, February 06, 2015 10:31:14 AM Al Sweigart wrote:
> > Okay. So if I'm reading this right, the CRP has a mediation process where
> > terminating a membership requires 2/3 vote. However, for safe space
> issues
> > someone can be temporarily banned immediately by an individual member,
> > which can then only be overturned by a 100% consensus (under the "All
> other
> > conflicts" category in the CRP)? Or when it says "a temporary ban may
be
> > put in place until the Omni's conflict resolution process can be followed
> > to resolution" does that mean they are banned until a 2/3 vote to
> > permanently ban them is made (as it says in the CRP)?
> >
> > Basically, I want to know if, after the temp ban, it takes a 100% vote to
> > unban the abusive person or a 66% vote to ban the abusive person. The CRP
> > and Safer Space Policy aren't clear cut on that (unless I'm missing
> > something in the wording).
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 3:12 PM, David Keenan <dkeenan44(a)gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > On Thursday, February 5, 2015, Al Sweigart <asweigart(a)gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >> I was hoping someone could clear a few things up:
> > >>
> > >> 1) Is Perry, right now, banned from the Omni Commons space?
> > >
> > > Yes, any member (but not guest) is empowered to temporarily ban -
> pending
> > > conflict mediation - anyone else so following a safe space violation
> which
> > > is what this is. I will bring it up also at the delegates meeting. See
> our
> > > Safe Space and Conflict Resolution policies on our wiki (on phone,
> don't
> > > have the links to hand but they are in the sidebar)
> > >
> > >> 2) If not, is any member unilaterally empowered to ban him right now?
> > >
> > > See above
> > >
> > >> 3) And if that happened, would he only be unbanned is through 100%
> > >> consensus of the entire group?
> > >
> > > He would be unbanned following the process set forth in Conflict
> > > Resolution.
> > >
> > >> 4) And would this consensus be reached at a CDC meeting or another
> > >> meeting?
> > >
> > > See conflict resolution process. Thanks!
> > >
> > >> -Al
> > >>
> > >> On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 4:06 PM, Steve Bloom
<stevebloom55(a)gmail.com>
> > >>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>> He's a guitar teacher of some sort, IIRC with a poster in the
entry,
> so
> > >>> perhaps has some connection to musical activities at Omni.
I've
> > >>> experienced him too, both times somewhat drunk and having lost his
> sense
> > >>> of
> > >>> boundaries in part. I didn't feel threatened, but I can see
how most
> > >>> would.
> > >>>
> > >>> On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 3:35 PM, Ryan <yandoryn(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> > >>>> I like the phrase space-invaded because it just made me think
of
> Space
> > >>>> Invaders which made me think of making a Safe Space top-down
shooter
> > >>>> video
> > >>>> game, which made me smile.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 3:27 PM, Jenny Ryan
<tunabananas(a)gmail.com>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> wrote:
> > >>>>> Oh, *that* dude. So sorry you were space-invaded, Ryan :(
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> I remember being in the mezzanine when Perry was in the
ballroom,
> > >>>>> reading Sarah's report about the incident with him
peeking into the
> > >>>>> Disco
> > >>>>> Room, then overheard him say to someone on the phone about
being
> asked
> > >>>>> to
> > >>>>> stop, "Dude, I was just looking at this beautiful
naked dancer, I
> mean
> > >>>>> wow"
> > >>>>> and turning to Matt or Marc, can't recall, and fuming
that I'd
> love to
> > >>>>> go
> > >>>>> kick that creep out of the space.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Wish I had then. Fully in support of his ban but don't
personally
> have
> > >>>>> the bandwidth to steward a mediation process. I think he
might know
> > >>>>> Gabby
> > >>>>> from Rise Above, or seemed to be helping / around that area
some.
> > >>>>> CC'ing
> > >>>>> her to see if she has his contact info.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> /jnny
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> On 02/03/2015 02:49 PM, David Keenan wrote:
> > >>>>> > Hi all,
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>> > Yes, I agree, this person should persona non grata
pending
> > >>>>> > mediation.
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>> > Perry is an olderish white guy musician who comes
around
> sometimes,
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> much of
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > the time seriously drunk it would appear. Being drunk
seems to
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> clearly
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > impair his judgement and his actions become invasive
to others in
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> the ways
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > Ryan describes.
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>> > My history with him is only the following. I first
talked to him
> a
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> while
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > ago asking him to turn down his electric guitar in the
ballroom
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> while a
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > large meeting was taking place in La Commune - he
complied. I
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> noticed he
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > really did reek of alcohol. I asked if he volunteered
with any
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> collective,
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > he said FNB - but he didn't know where the kitchen
was, or that
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> there was
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > even a basement, which rang alarm bells for me (ie, it
was
> probably
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> a fib.)
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > I later followed up with Helen and Joe and they said
they had
> never
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> heard
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > of him, and that sometimes people 'say' theyre
in FNB but aren't
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> really..
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > Anyhow, Perry left the ballroom and wandered upstairs
by the
> kitchen
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> above
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > La Commune, now playing the mandolin -
'quietly', yes - but alas
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> still
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > distracting to those in the large meeting below, and I
again
> asked
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> if he
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > could play music in the basement or another room in
the building
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> until the
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > meeting as finished - he complied, but seemed pretty
out of it
> and
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> not
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > understanding why (drunk).
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>> > I later found out that while upstairs he was
'peeking' into the
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Disco Room
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > on a dance rehearsal that made those inside feel
uncomfortable
> and
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Sarah
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > sent an email out to that effect. Next time I saw him,
I
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> re-introduced
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > myself, took him up to the dance room and let him know
that they
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> require
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > privacy and to not do that. He said he had something
of one the
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> dancers
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > inside and was trying to return it to her.. I did not
verify
> whether
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> this
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > was true or not, but since the dancers did not seem to
know him,
> it
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> seems
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > doubtful.
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>> > Then, one day after that, he was walking into the
building and I
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> admittedly
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > gave him a bit of a 'side-eye' on the way in
because I wasn't
> sure
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> if he
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > was wasted or what. He himself came up to me and said,
"why'd you
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> give me
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > that look?", and I said, it appears you come into
the building
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> drunk, and
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > we can't have drunk people in here - you
aren't known to our
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> community, and
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > I don't know what you will do in that state. I
said if you want
> to
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> get
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > drunk, try not to come here. To his credit he admitted
being
> drunk
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> the
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > aforementioned day, agreed it was unacceptable, and
said that
> wasn't
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> going
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > to happen again.
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>> > But, since it has happened again, to my mind that is
grounds to
> ban
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> him
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > pending mediation that he will have to arrange.
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>> > Does anyone know him, or have his email?
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>> > Best,
> > >>>>> > David
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>> > On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 2:20 PM, Ryan
<yandoryn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>>> > > fwding this to sudo and cdc as well
> > >>>>> > >
> > >>>>> > >
> > >>>>> > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > >>>>> > > From: Ryan <yandoryn(a)gmail.com>
> > >>>>> > > Date: Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 1:59 PM
> > >>>>> > > Subject: Proposed Safe Space Ban: Perry
> > >>>>> > > To: "discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org"
<
> discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>> >,
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>> > > David Keenan <dkeenan44(a)gmail.com>
> > >>>>> > >
> > >>>>> > >
> > >>>>> > > Perry, who as far as I know is not affiliated
with any
> collective
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> in the
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > > space, was at the Omni until late last night. He
was heavily
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> inebriated and
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > > reeked of alcohol.
> > >>>>> > >
> > >>>>> > > In attempting to talk with me, he got incredibly
touchy-feely
> and
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> further
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > > invaded my space, getting so close that I could
feel his
> breath on
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> my skin.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > > I informed him loudly that touch needs to be
consensual in the
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> space and
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > > that he should ask me before touching me. I told
him that the
> safe
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> space
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > > policy is next to the front door and that he
should read it. I
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> managed to
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > > get away from him, but he followed me outside.
> > >>>>> > >
> > >>>>> > > Ribre (sp?) was outside with her guitar and he
sat down next to
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> her,
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > > invaded her space, and tried to strike up a
seemingly very
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> uncomfortable
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > > conversation. She told him that whatever he was
talking about
> was
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> something
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > > that he'd have to deal with on his own, not
with her, and that
> she
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> cannot
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > > deal with drunk men, and that they make her
unsafe. Instead of
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> ceasing the
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > > conversation, he got closer and tried to tell her
that they
> needed
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> to
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > > continue it.
> > >>>>> > >
> > >>>>> > > He continued in this vein for a while longer,
until I loudly
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> informed him
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > > that the conversation was not consensual and he
needed to
> stop. He
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> started
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > > to argue with me, however RAYC was able to defuse
Perry and
> lead
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> him away
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > > from the interaction.
> > >>>>> > >
> > >>>>> > > I spoke to Kwe and Juul before they left, to make
sure I had
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> backup if I
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > > needed to ask Perry to leave the building.
Eventually, I was
> the
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> only
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > > member left in the building, so I asked RAYC to
shut down the
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> building for
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > > me, and that I was only comfortable vouching for
him and
> Nicholas.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> RAYC got
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > > Perry to leave.
> > >>>>> > >
> > >>>>> > > I spoke with David Keenan this morning,
explaining the
> situation,
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> and DK
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > > said that he has spoken to Perry in the past
about his
> behaviour,
> > >>>>> > > specifically his behaviour when under the
influence of
> alcohol. I
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> will let
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > > DK speak more to that.
> > >>>>> > >
> > >>>>> > > Is anyone aware of a collective that Perry is
involved with?
> In my
> > >>>>> > > conversation with DK, he said that when he spoke
to Perry he
> said
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> he was
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > > with FNB, but was probably lying, as he
didn't even know where
> the
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> kitchen
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > > was. Regardless, I ask that Perry be banned from
the Omni,
> pending
> > >>>>> > > mediation, as his actions clearly violate our
safe space policy
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> and he
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > > refused to take action to alter his behaviour.
> > >>>>> > >
> > >>>>> > >
> > >>>>> > > _______________________________________________
> > >>>>> > > sudo-discuss mailing list
> > >>>>> > > sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
> > >>>>> > > https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________
> > >>>>> > sudo-discuss mailing list
> > >>>>> > sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
> > >>>>> > https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> --
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Jenny
> > >>>>> http://jennyryan.net
> > >>>>> http://sudomesh.org
> > >>>>> http://thevirtualcampfire.org
> > >>>>> http://technomadic.tumblr.com
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> `~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
> > >>>>> "Technology is the campfire around which we tell our
stories."
> > >>>>> -Laurie Anderson
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> "Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the
error of
> defining
> > >>>>> it."
> > >>>>> -Hannah Arendt
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> "To define is to kill. To suggest is to create."
> > >>>>> -Stéphane Mallarmé
> > >>>>> ~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
> > >>>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
> > >>>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
> > >>>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> > >>>>
> > >>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>> discuss mailing list
> > >>>> discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
> > >>>> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> cdc mailing list
> > >>> cdc(a)lists.omnicommons.org
> > >>> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/cdc
>
>
11:28 p.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] Proposed Safe Space Ban: Perry
I'm not a fucking woman, thank you, and when I'm sexually assaulted it
should also be easy to ban someone.
On Feb 7, 2015 11:07 PM, "Al Sweigart" <asweigart(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Sudo room
follows the rules until it doesn't make sense to follow the
rules.
Isn't that just the same thing as selectively enforcing the rules? If the
rules "don't make sense", it should be easy enough to get everyone to vote
to modify/delete/append the rules. Otherwise, this is just asking for
popular people in the group getting to decide when the rules don't apply to
them.
It's easy enough to boot abusive people from Omni Commons when they're
drunk and getting into women's personal space and being a creep. But where
the policies of a space are tested is if they hold up against powerful
people. That goes for groups of people big and small.
So, I kind of figured that mine would be an easy question to answer (Is it
66% to ban or 100% to unban?) but if no one actually knows the answer, then
it points to something that should probably be discussed.
On Fri, Feb 6, 2015 at 3:09 PM, Torrie Fischer <tdfischer(a)hackerbots.net>
wrote:
Rah rah policy and whatnot.
Sudo room follows the rules until it doesn't make sense to follow the
rules.
This thread (along with other previous threads) has seen a lot of energy
put
into dissecting the intricate hoops of policy and procedure that have been
built to figure out loopholes and whatnot. They're quite ornate, really.
Wonderful things, if thats your kink.
Instead of investing more energy into this flavor of turing tarpit by
throwing
around voting percentages, decision approval workflows, ambiguous
wording, and
whatnot, maybe its best to start by revisiting the original problem:
How does Sudo Room, as a member of the Omni collective-of-collectives,
keep
the people they want at Sudo Room and reliably push away people who don't
belong?
(For the record, I try to avoid the wednesday meetings because during my
last
few visits I almost fell asleep when it turned into omni delegate meeting
discussion about how to lawyer it out in "consensus")
On Friday, February 06, 2015 10:31:14 AM Al Sweigart wrote:
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
Okay. So if I'm reading this right, the CRP
has a mediation process
where
terminating a membership requires 2/3 vote.
However, for safe space
issues
someone can be temporarily banned immediately by
an individual member,
which can then only be overturned by a 100% consensus (under the "All
other
conflicts" category in the CRP)? Or when it
says "a temporary ban may be
put in place until the Omni's conflict resolution process can be
followed
to resolution" does that mean they are
banned until a 2/3 vote to
permanently ban them is made (as it says in the CRP)?
Basically, I want to know if, after the temp ban, it takes a 100% vote
to
unban the abusive person or a 66% vote to ban the
abusive person. The
CRP
and Safer Space Policy aren't clear cut on
that (unless I'm missing
something in the wording).
On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 3:12 PM, David Keenan <dkeenan44(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> On Thursday, February 5, 2015, Al Sweigart
<asweigart(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
>> I was hoping someone could clear a few
things up:
>>
>> 1) Is Perry, right now, banned from the Omni Commons space?
>
> Yes, any member (but not guest) is empowered to temporarily ban -
pending
> conflict mediation - anyone else so
following a safe space violation
which
> is what this is. I will bring it up also at
the delegates meeting.
See our
> Safe Space and Conflict Resolution policies
on our wiki (on phone,
don't
> have the links to hand but they are in the
sidebar)
>
>> 2) If not, is any member unilaterally empowered to ban him right now?
>
> See above
>
>> 3) And if that happened, would he only be unbanned is through 100%
>> consensus of the entire group?
>
> He would be unbanned following the process set forth in Conflict
> Resolution.
>
>> 4) And would this consensus be reached at a CDC meeting or another
>> meeting?
>
> See conflict resolution process. Thanks!
>
>> -Al
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 4:06 PM, Steve Bloom <stevebloom55(a)gmail.com>
>>
>> wrote:
>>> He's a guitar teacher of some sort, IIRC with a poster in the
entry, so
>>> perhaps has some connection to
musical activities at Omni. I've
>>> experienced him too, both times somewhat drunk and having lost his
sense
>>> of
>>> boundaries in part. I didn't feel threatened, but I can see how
most
>>> would.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 3:35 PM, Ryan <yandoryn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I like the phrase space-invaded because it just made me think of
Space
>>>> Invaders which made me think of
making a Safe Space top-down
shooter
>>>> video
>>>> game, which made me smile.
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 3:27 PM, Jenny Ryan
<tunabananas(a)gmail.com>
>>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Oh, *that* dude. So sorry you were space-invaded, Ryan :(
>>>>>
>>>>> I remember being in the mezzanine when Perry was in the ballroom,
>>>>> reading Sarah's report about the incident with him peeking into
the
>>>>> Disco
>>>>> Room, then overheard him say to someone on the phone about being
asked
>>>>> to
>>>>> stop, "Dude, I was just looking at this beautiful naked dancer,
I
mean
>>>>> wow"
>>>>> and turning to Matt or Marc, can't recall, and fuming that
I'd
love to
>>>>> go
>>>>> kick that creep out of the space.
>>>>>
>>>>> Wish I had then. Fully in support of his ban but don't
personally
have
>>>>> the bandwidth to steward a
mediation process. I think he might
know
>>>>> Gabby
>>>>> from Rise Above, or seemed to be helping / around that area some.
>>>>> CC'ing
>>>>> her to see if she has his contact info.
>>>>>
>>>>> /jnny
>>>>>
>>>>> On 02/03/2015 02:49 PM, David Keenan wrote:
>>>>> > Hi all,
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Yes, I agree, this person should persona non grata pending
>>>>> > mediation.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Perry is an olderish white guy musician who comes around
sometimes,
>>>>>
>>>>> much of
>>>>>
>>>>> > the time seriously drunk it would appear. Being drunk seems to
>>>>>
>>>>> clearly
>>>>>
>>>>> > impair his judgement and his actions become invasive to others
in
>>>>>
>>>>> the ways
>>>>>
>>>>> > Ryan describes.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > My history with him is only the following. I first talked to
him a
>>>>>
>>>>> while
>>>>>
>>>>> > ago asking him to turn down his electric guitar in the
ballroom
>>>>>
>>>>> while a
>>>>>
>>>>> > large meeting was taking place in La Commune - he complied. I
>>>>>
>>>>> noticed he
>>>>>
>>>>> > really did reek of alcohol. I asked if he volunteered with any
>>>>>
>>>>> collective,
>>>>>
>>>>> > he said FNB - but he didn't know where the kitchen was, or
that
>>>>>
>>>>> there was
>>>>>
>>>>> > even a basement, which rang alarm bells for me (ie, it was
probably
>>>>>
>>>>> a fib.)
>>>>>
>>>>> > I later followed up with Helen and Joe and they said they had
never
>>>>>
>>>>> heard
>>>>>
>>>>> > of him, and that sometimes people 'say' theyre in FNB
but aren't
>>>>>
>>>>> really..
>>>>>
>>>>> > Anyhow, Perry left the ballroom and wandered upstairs by the
kitchen
>>>>>
>>>>> above
>>>>>
>>>>> > La Commune, now playing the mandolin - 'quietly', yes -
but alas
>>>>>
>>>>> still
>>>>>
>>>>> > distracting to those in the large meeting below, and I again
asked
>>>>>
>>>>> if he
>>>>>
>>>>> > could play music in the basement or another room in the
building
>>>>>
>>>>> until the
>>>>>
>>>>> > meeting as finished - he complied, but seemed pretty out of it
and
>>>>>
>>>>> not
>>>>>
>>>>> > understanding why (drunk).
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I later found out that while upstairs he was 'peeking'
into the
>>>>>
>>>>> Disco Room
>>>>>
>>>>> > on a dance rehearsal that made those inside feel uncomfortable
and
>>>>>
>>>>> Sarah
>>>>>
>>>>> > sent an email out to that effect. Next time I saw him, I
>>>>>
>>>>> re-introduced
>>>>>
>>>>> > myself, took him up to the dance room and let him know that
they
>>>>>
>>>>> require
>>>>>
>>>>> > privacy and to not do that. He said he had something of one
the
>>>>>
>>>>> dancers
>>>>>
>>>>> > inside and was trying to return it to her.. I did not verify
whether
>>>>>
>>>>> this
>>>>>
>>>>> > was true or not, but since the dancers did not seem to know
him, it
>>>>>
>>>>> seems
>>>>>
>>>>> > doubtful.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Then, one day after that, he was walking into the building and
I
>>>>>
>>>>> admittedly
>>>>>
>>>>> > gave him a bit of a 'side-eye' on the way in because I
wasn't
sure
>>>>>
>>>>> if he
>>>>>
>>>>> > was wasted or what. He himself came up to me and said,
"why'd
you
>>>>>
>>>>> give me
>>>>>
>>>>> > that look?", and I said, it appears you come into the
building
>>>>>
>>>>> drunk, and
>>>>>
>>>>> > we can't have drunk people in here - you aren't known
to our
>>>>>
>>>>> community, and
>>>>>
>>>>> > I don't know what you will do in that state. I said if you
want
to
>>>>>
>>>>> get
>>>>>
>>>>> > drunk, try not to come here. To his credit he admitted being
drunk
>>>>>
>>>>> the
>>>>>
>>>>> > aforementioned day, agreed it was unacceptable, and said that
wasn't
>>>>>
>>>>> going
>>>>>
>>>>> > to happen again.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > But, since it has happened again, to my mind that is grounds to
ban
>>>>>
>>>>> him
>>>>>
>>>>> > pending mediation that he will have to arrange.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Does anyone know him, or have his email?
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Best,
>>>>> > David
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 2:20 PM, Ryan <yandoryn(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
>>>>> > > fwding this to
sudo and cdc as well
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>>> > > From: Ryan <yandoryn(a)gmail.com>
>>>>> > > Date: Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 1:59 PM
>>>>> > > Subject: Proposed Safe Space Ban: Perry
>>>>> > > To: "discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org" <
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
>>>>> >
>>>>> >,
>>>>> >
>>>>> > > David Keenan <dkeenan44(a)gmail.com>
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > Perry, who as far as I know is not affiliated with any
collective
>>>>>
>>>>> in the
>>>>>
>>>>> > > space, was at the Omni until late last night. He was
heavily
>>>>>
>>>>> inebriated and
>>>>>
>>>>> > > reeked of alcohol.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > In attempting to talk with me, he got incredibly
touchy-feely
and
>>>>>
>>>>> further
>>>>>
>>>>> > > invaded my space, getting so close that I could feel his
breath on
>>>>>
>>>>> my skin.
>>>>>
>>>>> > > I informed him loudly that touch needs to be consensual in
the
>>>>>
>>>>> space and
>>>>>
>>>>> > > that he should ask me before touching me. I told him that
the
safe
>>>>>
>>>>> space
>>>>>
>>>>> > > policy is next to the front door and that he should read
it. I
>>>>>
>>>>> managed to
>>>>>
>>>>> > > get away from him, but he followed me outside.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > Ribre (sp?) was outside with her guitar and he sat down
next
to
>>>>>
>>>>> her,
>>>>>
>>>>> > > invaded her space, and tried to strike up a seemingly
very
>>>>>
>>>>> uncomfortable
>>>>>
>>>>> > > conversation. She told him that whatever he was talking
about
was
>>>>>
>>>>> something
>>>>>
>>>>> > > that he'd have to deal with on his own, not with her,
and
that she
>>>>>
>>>>> cannot
>>>>>
>>>>> > > deal with drunk men, and that they make her unsafe.
Instead of
>>>>>
>>>>> ceasing the
>>>>>
>>>>> > > conversation, he got closer and tried to tell her that
they
needed
>>>>>
>>>>> to
>>>>>
>>>>> > > continue it.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > He continued in this vein for a while longer, until I
loudly
>>>>>
>>>>> informed him
>>>>>
>>>>> > > that the conversation was not consensual and he needed to
stop. He
>>>>>
>>>>> started
>>>>>
>>>>> > > to argue with me, however RAYC was able to defuse Perry
and
lead
>>>>>
>>>>> him away
>>>>>
>>>>> > > from the interaction.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > I spoke to Kwe and Juul before they left, to make sure I
had
>>>>>
>>>>> backup if I
>>>>>
>>>>> > > needed to ask Perry to leave the building. Eventually, I
was
the
>>>>>
>>>>> only
>>>>>
>>>>> > > member left in the building, so I asked RAYC to shut down
the
>>>>>
>>>>> building for
>>>>>
>>>>> > > me, and that I was only comfortable vouching for him and
Nicholas.
>>>>>
>>>>> RAYC got
>>>>>
>>>>> > > Perry to leave.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > I spoke with David Keenan this morning, explaining the
situation,
>>>>>
>>>>> and DK
>>>>>
>>>>> > > said that he has spoken to Perry in the past about his
behaviour,
>>>>> > > specifically his
behaviour when under the influence of
alcohol. I
>>>>>
>>>>> will let
>>>>>
>>>>> > > DK speak more to that.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > Is anyone aware of a collective that Perry is involved
with?
In my
>>>>> > > conversation with
DK, he said that when he spoke to Perry he
said
>>>>>
>>>>> he was
>>>>>
>>>>> > > with FNB, but was probably lying, as he didn't even
know
where the
>>>>>
>>>>> kitchen
>>>>>
>>>>> > > was. Regardless, I ask that Perry be banned from the Omni,
pending
>>>>> > > mediation, as his
actions clearly violate our safe space
policy
>>>>>
>>>>> and he
>>>>>
>>>>> > > refused to take action to alter his behaviour.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > _______________________________________________
>>>>> > > sudo-discuss mailing list
>>>>> > > sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
>>>>> > > https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>>> >
>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>> > sudo-discuss mailing list
>>>>> > sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
>>>>> > https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> Jenny
>>>>> http://jennyryan.net
>>>>> http://sudomesh.org
>>>>> http://thevirtualcampfire.org
>>>>> http://technomadic.tumblr.com
>>>>>
>>>>> `~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
>>>>> "Technology is the campfire around which we tell our
stories."
>>>>> -Laurie Anderson
>>>>>
>>>>> "Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the error of
defining
>>>>> it."
>>>>> -Hannah Arendt
>>>>>
>>>>> "To define is to kill. To suggest is to create."
>>>>> -Stéphane Mallarmé
>>>>> ~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
>>>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> discuss mailing list
>>>> discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
>>>> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> cdc mailing list
>>> cdc(a)lists.omnicommons.org
>>> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/cdc
11:33 p.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] Proposed Safe Space Ban: Perry
Hey all, let's tone this down. A lot.
Maybe certain aspects of this discussion should be held off thread? And mediated?
This is a public list.
There's no need for abusive language, from anyone. For any reason.
And Ryan, it seems to me, the previous message mentioned "women" as an example,
not as directly pointing at you.
Yes, there are flaws in how our "rules" are enforced. That being said, if anyone
find complaint, they are more than welcome to bring the topic up in discussion at a
meeting, with a proposal/ideas on how we can rectify any faults.
~ Korl
510.671.0824
500px.com/soenke-v
On Feb 7, 2015, 11:28 PM, at 11:28 PM, Ryan <yandoryn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I'm not a fucking woman, thank you, and when
I'm sexually assaulted it
should also be easy to ban someone.
On Feb 7, 2015 11:07 PM, "Al Sweigart" <asweigart(a)gmail.com> wrote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
> Sudo room follows the rules until it
doesn't make sense to follow
the
rules.
Isn't that just the same thing as selectively enforcing the rules? If
the
rules "don't make sense", it should
be easy enough to get everyone to
vote
to modify/delete/append the rules. Otherwise,
this is just asking for
popular people in the group getting to decide when the rules don't
apply to
them.
It's easy enough to boot abusive people from Omni Commons when
they're
drunk and getting into women's personal space
and being a creep. But
where
the policies of a space are tested is if they
hold up against
powerful
people. That goes for groups of people big and
small.
So, I kind of figured that mine would be an easy question to answer
(Is it
66% to ban or 100% to unban?) but if no one
actually knows the
answer, then
it points to something that should probably be
discussed.
On Fri, Feb 6, 2015 at 3:09 PM, Torrie Fischer
<tdfischer(a)hackerbots.net>
wrote:
> Rah rah policy and whatnot.
>
> Sudo room follows the rules until it doesn't make sense to follow
the
> rules.
>
> This thread (along with other previous threads) has seen a lot of
energy
> put
> into dissecting the intricate hoops of policy and procedure that
have been
> built to figure out loopholes and whatnot.
They're quite ornate,
really.
> Wonderful things, if thats your kink.
>
> Instead of investing more energy into this flavor of turing tarpit
by
> throwing
> around voting percentages, decision approval workflows, ambiguous
> wording, and
> whatnot, maybe its best to start by revisiting the original problem:
>
> How does Sudo Room, as a member of the Omni
collective-of-collectives,
> keep
> the people they want at Sudo Room and reliably push away people who
don't
> belong?
>
> (For the record, I try to avoid the wednesday meetings because
during my
> last
> few visits I almost fell asleep when it turned into omni delegate
meeting
> discussion about how to lawyer it out in
"consensus")
>
> On Friday, February 06, 2015 10:31:14 AM Al Sweigart wrote:
> > Okay. So if I'm reading this right, the CRP has a mediation
process
> where
> > terminating a membership requires 2/3 vote. However, for safe
space
> issues
> > someone can be temporarily banned immediately by an individual
member,
> > which can then only be overturned by a
100% consensus (under the
"All
> other
> > conflicts" category in the CRP)? Or when it says "a temporary ban
may be
> > put in place until the Omni's
conflict resolution process can be
> followed
> > to resolution" does that mean they are banned until a 2/3 vote to
> > permanently ban them is made (as it says in the CRP)?
> >
> > Basically, I want to know if, after the temp ban, it takes a 100%
vote
> to
> > unban the abusive person or a 66% vote to ban the abusive person.
The
> CRP
> > and Safer Space Policy aren't clear cut on that (unless I'm
missing
> > something in the wording).
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 3:12 PM, David Keenan <dkeenan44(a)gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > On Thursday, February 5, 2015, Al Sweigart <asweigart(a)gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >> I was hoping someone could clear a few things up:
> > >>
> > >> 1) Is Perry, right now, banned from the Omni Commons space?
> > >
> > > Yes, any member (but not guest) is empowered to temporarily ban
-
> pending
> > > conflict mediation - anyone else so following a safe space
violation
> which
> > > is what this is. I will bring it up also at the delegates
meeting.
> See our
> > > Safe Space and Conflict Resolution policies on our wiki (on
phone,
> don't
> > > have the links to hand but they are in the sidebar)
> > >
> > >> 2) If not, is any member unilaterally empowered to ban him
right
now?
> > >
> > > See above
> > >
> > >> 3) And if that happened, would he only be unbanned is through
100%
> > >> consensus of the entire group?
> > >
> > > He would be unbanned following the process set forth in Conflict
> > > Resolution.
> > >
> > >> 4) And would this consensus be reached at a CDC meeting or
another
> > >> meeting?
> > >
> > > See conflict resolution process. Thanks!
> > >
> > >> -Al
> > >>
> > >> On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 4:06 PM, Steve Bloom
<stevebloom55(a)gmail.com>
> > >>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>> He's a guitar teacher of some sort, IIRC with a poster in the
> entry, so
> > >>> perhaps has some connection to musical activities at Omni.
I've
> > >>> experienced him too, both
times somewhat drunk and having lost
his
> sense
> > >>> of
> > >>> boundaries in part. I didn't feel threatened, but I can see
how
> most
> > >>> would.
> > >>>
> > >>> On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 3:35 PM, Ryan <yandoryn(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> > >>>> I like the phrase
space-invaded because it just made me think
of
> Space
> > >>>> Invaders which made me think of making a Safe Space top-down
> shooter
> > >>>> video
> > >>>> game, which made me smile.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 3:27 PM, Jenny Ryan
<tunabananas(a)gmail.com>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> wrote:
> > >>>>> Oh, *that* dude. So sorry you were space-invaded, Ryan :(
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> I remember being in the mezzanine when Perry was in the
ballroom,
> > >>>>> reading Sarah's
report about the incident with him peeking
into
> the
> > >>>>> Disco
> > >>>>> Room, then overheard him say to someone on the phone about
being
> asked
> > >>>>> to
> > >>>>> stop, "Dude, I was just looking at this beautiful
naked
dancer, I
> mean
> > >>>>> wow"
> > >>>>> and turning to Matt or Marc, can't recall, and fuming
that
I'd
> love to
> > >>>>> go
> > >>>>> kick that creep out of the space.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Wish I had then. Fully in support of his ban but don't
personally
> have
> > >>>>> the bandwidth to steward a mediation process. I think he
might
> know
> > >>>>> Gabby
> > >>>>> from Rise Above, or seemed to be helping / around that area
some.
> > >>>>> CC'ing
> > >>>>> her to see if she has his contact info.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> /jnny
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> On 02/03/2015 02:49 PM, David Keenan wrote:
> > >>>>> > Hi all,
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>> > Yes, I agree, this person should persona non grata
pending
> > >>>>> > mediation.
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>> > Perry is an olderish white guy musician who comes
around
> sometimes,
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> much of
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > the time seriously drunk it would appear. Being drunk
seems to
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> clearly
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > impair his judgement and his actions become invasive
to
others
> in
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> the ways
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > Ryan describes.
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>> > My history with him is only the following. I first
talked
to
> him a
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> while
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > ago asking him to turn down his electric guitar in the
ballroom
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> while a
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > large meeting was taking place in La Commune - he
complied. I
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> noticed he
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > really did reek of alcohol. I asked if he volunteered
with
any
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> collective,
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > he said FNB - but he didn't know where the kitchen
was, or
that
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> there was
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > even a basement, which rang alarm bells for me (ie, it
was
> probably
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> a fib.)
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > I later followed up with Helen and Joe and they said
they
had
> never
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> heard
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > of him, and that sometimes people 'say' theyre
in FNB but
aren't
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> really..
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > Anyhow, Perry left the ballroom and wandered upstairs
by
the
> kitchen
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> above
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > La Commune, now playing the mandolin -
'quietly', yes -
but alas
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> still
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > distracting to those in the large meeting below, and I
again
> asked
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> if he
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > could play music in the basement or another room in
the
building
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> until the
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > meeting as finished - he complied, but seemed pretty
out
of it
> and
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> not
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > understanding why (drunk).
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>> > I later found out that while upstairs he was
'peeking'
into the
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Disco Room
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > on a dance rehearsal that made those inside feel
uncomfortable
> and
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Sarah
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > sent an email out to that effect. Next time I saw him,
I
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> re-introduced
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > myself, took him up to the dance room and let him know
that they
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> require
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > privacy and to not do that. He said he had something
of
one the
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> dancers
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > inside and was trying to return it to her.. I did not
verify
> whether
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> this
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > was true or not, but since the dancers did not seem to
know
> him, it
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> seems
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > doubtful.
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>> > Then, one day after that, he was walking into the
building
and I
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> admittedly
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > gave him a bit of a 'side-eye' on the way in
because I
wasn't
> sure
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> if he
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > was wasted or what. He himself came up to me and said,
"why'd
> you
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> give me
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > that look?", and I said, it appears you come into
the
building
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> drunk, and
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > we can't have drunk people in here - you
aren't known to
our
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> community, and
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > I don't know what you will do in that state. I
said if you
want
> to
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> get
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > drunk, try not to come here. To his credit he admitted
being
> drunk
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> the
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > aforementioned day, agreed it was unacceptable, and
said
that
> wasn't
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> going
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > to happen again.
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>> > But, since it has happened again, to my mind that is
grounds to
> ban
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> him
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > pending mediation that he will have to arrange.
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>> > Does anyone know him, or have his email?
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>> > Best,
> > >>>>> > David
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>> > On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 2:20 PM, Ryan
<yandoryn(a)gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >>>>> > > fwding this to sudo and cdc as well
> > >>>>> > >
> > >>>>> > >
> > >>>>> > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > >>>>> > > From: Ryan <yandoryn(a)gmail.com>
> > >>>>> > > Date: Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 1:59 PM
> > >>>>> > > Subject: Proposed Safe Space Ban: Perry
> > >>>>> > > To: "discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org"
<
> discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>> >,
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>> > > David Keenan <dkeenan44(a)gmail.com>
> > >>>>> > >
> > >>>>> > >
> > >>>>> > > Perry, who as far as I know is not affiliated
with any
> collective
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> in the
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > > space, was at the Omni until late last night. He
was
heavily
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> inebriated and
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > > reeked of alcohol.
> > >>>>> > >
> > >>>>> > > In attempting to talk with me, he got incredibly
touchy-feely
> and
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> further
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > > invaded my space, getting so close that I could
feel his
> breath on
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> my skin.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > > I informed him loudly that touch needs to be
consensual
in the
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> space and
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > > that he should ask me before touching me. I told
him
that the
> safe
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> space
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > > policy is next to the front door and that he
should read
it. I
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> managed to
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > > get away from him, but he followed me outside.
> > >>>>> > >
> > >>>>> > > Ribre (sp?) was outside with her guitar and he
sat down
next
> to
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> her,
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > > invaded her space, and tried to strike up a
seemingly
very
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> uncomfortable
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > > conversation. She told him that whatever he was
talking
about
> was
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> something
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > > that he'd have to deal with on his own, not
with her,
and
> that she
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> cannot
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > > deal with drunk men, and that they make her
unsafe.
Instead of
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> ceasing the
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > > conversation, he got closer and tried to tell her
that
they
> needed
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> to
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > > continue it.
> > >>>>> > >
> > >>>>> > > He continued in this vein for a while longer,
until I
loudly
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> informed him
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > > that the conversation was not consensual and he
needed
to
> stop. He
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> started
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > > to argue with me, however RAYC was able to defuse
Perry
and
> lead
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> him away
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > > from the interaction.
> > >>>>> > >
> > >>>>> > > I spoke to Kwe and Juul before they left, to make
sure I
had
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> backup if I
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > > needed to ask Perry to leave the building.
Eventually, I
was
> the
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> only
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > > member left in the building, so I asked RAYC to
shut
down the
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> building for
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > > me, and that I was only comfortable vouching for
him and
> Nicholas.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> RAYC got
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > > Perry to leave.
> > >>>>> > >
> > >>>>> > > I spoke with David Keenan this morning,
explaining the
> situation,
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> and DK
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > > said that he has spoken to Perry in the past
about his
> behaviour,
> > >>>>> > > specifically his behaviour when under the
influence of
> alcohol. I
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> will let
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > > DK speak more to that.
> > >>>>> > >
> > >>>>> > > Is anyone aware of a collective that Perry is
involved
with?
> In my
> > >>>>> > > conversation with DK, he said that when he spoke
to
Perry he
> said
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> he was
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > > with FNB, but was probably lying, as he
didn't even know
> where the
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> kitchen
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > > was. Regardless, I ask that Perry be banned from
the
Omni,
> pending
> > >>>>> > > mediation, as his actions clearly violate our
safe space
> policy
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> and he
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > > refused to take action to alter his behaviour.
> > >>>>> > >
> > >>>>> > >
> > >>>>> > > _______________________________________________
> > >>>>> > > sudo-discuss mailing list
> > >>>>> > > sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
> > >>>>> > > https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________
> > >>>>> > sudo-discuss mailing list
> > >>>>> > sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
> > >>>>> > https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> --
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Jenny
> > >>>>> http://jennyryan.net
> > >>>>> http://sudomesh.org
> > >>>>> http://thevirtualcampfire.org
> > >>>>> http://technomadic.tumblr.com
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> `~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
> > >>>>> "Technology is the campfire around which we tell our
stories."
> > >>>>> -Laurie Anderson
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> "Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the
error
of
defining
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
>>>>> it."
>>>>> -Hannah Arendt
>>>>>
>>>>> "To define is to kill. To suggest is to create."
>>>>> -Stéphane Mallarmé
>>>>> ~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
>>>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> discuss mailing list
>>>> discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
>>>> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> cdc mailing list
>>> cdc(a)lists.omnicommons.org
>>> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/cdc
8 Feb
8 Feb
1:53 a.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] Proposed Safe Space Ban: Perry
On Fri, Feb 6, 2015 at 10:31 AM, Al Sweigart <asweigart(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Or when it says "a temporary ban may be put in
place until the Omni's
conflict resolution process can be followed to resolution" does that mean
they are banned until a 2/3 vote to permanently ban them is made (as it
says in the CRP)?
Seems pretty straightforward to me. A temporary ban is temporary. To make
it permanent takes a 2/3 vote. If at the end of the conflict resolution
process there is no 2/3 majority to make it permanent, the temporary ban is
lifted.
Patrik
3369
days inactive
3374
days old
12 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
Al Sweigart -
David Keenan -
Jenny Ryan -
Patrik D'haeseleer -
Ryan -
Soenke -
Steve Bloom -
Torrie Fischer