On Fri, Feb 18, 2022 at 2:55 PM Joule Munic via sudo-discuss <sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org> wrote: Holy shit, I'm so sorry. That is awful and I don't blame you for stepping back after something like that. Where is all this stuff coming from? _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org To unsubscribe send an email to sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org

Yar: I think a lot of it just comes from random people who see sudo room as a place to “donate” electronics that they no longer need. I suspect the laser came from a Berkeley lab. I didn’t know it was dangerous as I was raised to believe UV-A just tans the skin but according to this 2020 study no, it was found to be profoundly mutagenic. Noisebridge had this e waste problem for a while until they made a dedicated spot for e waste which gets regularly emptied —I don’t know by whom. Presently we have about 5-8 cubic meters of stuff that piled up and should be removed… -J sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org> wrote: cancer, while sorting sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org> wrote: e-waste have stepping _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org To unsubscribe send an email to sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org

Thank you Liz for chiming in and boy do I agree with your sentiments. Personally, I ruminated a lot this year that if what the community wants is limitless storage of potentially-useful items as perhaps Omni’s main de-facto function on a per-square-foot basis as the community’s shared storage garage.. then we might do far better to sell omni, get a much cheaper and bigger open-floorplan warehouse, fill it with pallet shelving, park a forklift in there, give folks access codes and probably have money left over to spare for other things. I do feel there is a certain point at which the aggregate inertia of piles and stuff can replace and reduce people in a space, when space imo should privilege people and activity over inert storage. Imo, stuff stored should ideally be driven by the ongoing needs of active projects and not much else. Masses or jumbles of undigested stuff that may or may not function in serious quantities, I think can discourage and intimidate ideation and engagement new projects. Whereas organized stuff - even if that means less stuff - feels more likely to spark engagement and actualization of why any of the stuff is there in the first place. David On Fri, Feb 18, 2022 at 22:04 Liz Henry via sudo-discuss < sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org&gt; wrote:

I see what I feel are pretty harsh condemnations of something I think is an important part of hackerspaces/makerspaces like our sudoroom. I've been hosting tuesday nights at sudoroom for a while now, and trying to get people back into coming to the space and making use of it. We make use of a lot of different tools and supplies in the space, to build things, repair things, and ideate. We also make use of swaths of blank space on the tables. There is a spectrum of interest in the kind of hardware tools and materials we have in sudoroom. Some people are very comfortable surrounded by the many kinds of electronic and other bits we have, even though they're far from organized the way we would like them to be. Other people have zero interest, and would be most at home in an empty room with nothing but clean blank tables, good even lighting, and no visual clutter, like a nice yoga studio. Those people should definitely have that, and I encourage them to start with the disco room! It's almost there, although the floor is a little too "busy" but it could be coated with carpet or something. It would be a mistake for the second kind of people to entirely fail to understand the value of the materials we have, when the real issue is that we've faced a lack of human resources to curate the space. Over the years, sudoroom has received many donations of tools, raw materials, computers, monitors, TVBGones, monitors, soldering irons, monitors, printers, broken laptops, power supplies, oscilloscopes, 3D printers, and random stuff. Literally everything in sudoroom at this point has been a donation: the laser cutter, the tables, the light fixtures over the north half of the room (I salvaged them from an abandoned building, brought them and helped install them) yes, we get a lot of stuff that is not something we want to keep. The first thing that comes to mind is "printers" but a notable exception was when recently Hilary was able to score a useful and working printer from the main tables that had been dropped off just a few weeks earlier, by one of Sudoroom's long-lost co-founders. What keeps Sudoroom from being unusable due to too much clutter, as some people have reasonably claimed about the space recently? A lack of contributing effort. Joule contributed tons of effort in the past, and hauled off lots of stuff (although they are also the source of many things we still have) I have been putting hours every tuesday night (after others go home) sorting what we have, cleaning up, and preparing to make a big e-waste run. I've also given away lots of "donations" to people who would give them a good home, and i've even sold a few things (all money goes to sudoroom) and i'll do it again. Today, perhaps thanks to my encouragement, Ian gathered our huge excess of monitors and sorted them according to which ones we should keep, and the rest of them will be donated to https://techexchange.org which is an organization that distributes computers to low-income families in Oakland. Why didn't our excess of monitors get donated to them sooner? Because it requires human labor, and the pandemic has had us basically closed for two years. If you want to help sudoroom be a better place; less cluttered, more inviting, then come and get involved, spend time understanding what we have and why, and make an impact. But please don't be reactionary and wish for a blank and empty space, or whatever minimalist vision you have in mind that doesn't align with the spirit of material hacking and creativity that the space was founded on. -jake On Fri, 18 Feb 2022, David Keenan via sudo-discuss wrote: is shelving, piles should in less any it. like stuff. to a to time I pile. But room according by after to my with https://sudoroom.org/lists/hyperkitty/list/sudo-discuss@sudoroom.org/messag… sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org To unsubscribe send an email to sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org More options at https://sudoroom.org/lists/postorius/lists/sudo-discuss.sudoroom.org/ This message archived at https://sudoroom.org/lists/hyperkitty/list/sudo-discuss@sudoroom.org/messag…

On Feb 19, 2022, at 15:19, Jake via sudo-discuss &lt;sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org&gt; wrote: On Sat, 19 Feb 2022, Alexander Papazoglou wrote: I listed concrete suggestions: I said "come and get involved, spend time understanding what we have and why, and make an impact." I understand that that's what people are interpreting from my email, and that is not what I meant. I tried to be clear but I realize that it didn't work. I was saying that people who want an empty room should not try to make sudoroom into an empty room. There are other places for that, and I support that, but like I said, sudoroom (to me) is a place where we have tools and materials in addition to clear and clean workspace. And I wish that people didn't interpret my email as telling people not to come to the space, when I repeatedly and clearly said that what we need is for people to come to the space and help make it better. yes, I agree with you 100%. And I think that the way to get there is for more people to come to the space and contribute to making it nicer. You and I have already been doing that and we will continue to do it. I am planning to do a large e-waste run soon (in the next couple of weeks) and I put work into preparing that every tuesday night after people leave. I understand that my previous email was pretty long and didn't succeed in getting through what I was trying to say. I think that it would be really nice to have the space clean and organized and inviting, and the way we will do that is by people coming into the space and cleaning and organizing it. There is no substitute for that, and people who think that turning away donations (which have supplied literally everything in sudoroom) are mistaken, and their suggestions harm us and don't help anything. -jake _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org To unsubscribe send an email to sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org More options at https://sudoroom.org/lists/postorius/lists/sudo-discuss.sudoroom.org/ This message archived at https://sudoroom.org/lists/hyperkitty/list/sudo-discuss@sudoroom.org/messag…

I would like to discuss this in real-time, ideally face to face, for those available. *Who can join me tomorrow (Monday) night at 8:30 pm?* On Sat, Feb 19, 2022, 9:21 PM Eric O'Connor via sudo-discuss < sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org&gt; wrote: _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org To unsubscribe send an email to sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org More options at https://sudoroom.org/lists/postorius/lists/sudo-discuss.sudoroom.org/ This message archived at https://sudoroom.org/lists/hyperkitty/list/sudo-discuss@sudoroom.org/messag…

I will definitely make the meeting tomorrow night hybrid. And I don't think we'll make any irreversible decisions, so no one who misses it will be left behind. *Just join at the usual address tomorrow, Monday February 21st at 8:30 PM: https://meet.waag.org/turtlesturtlesturtles <https://meet.waag.org/turtlesturtlesturtles>* I agree that it's useful to recognize the sensitivity of this issue, and I agree that we can definitely take some big bites out of the problem right away without undermining anyone's vision. *Andrew R Gross, (he/him)* 412.657.5332 - shrad.org <http://www.shrad.org> On Sun, Feb 20, 2022 at 1:09 PM David Keenan &lt;dkeenan44(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > Just wanted to say this thread feels like a really central and helpful > group discussion, and it’s great to see this visioning around sudo, > hackerspaces, and their relation between stuff and humans. > > A meeting to discuss more sounds good and will do my best to be > available, though I can’t yet confirm :/ Might it be possible to schedule a > virtual meeting, which might make it easier for folks given short notice? > > I also wanted to acknowledge that there are some deep feelings around > this topic and so we should all make an extra hard effort to *not* take > different views personally and to remember that everyone probably shares > the same ultimate goal of how to make sudo more inviting and lively. > > Imo it’s not so much about choosing between ‘empty yoga studio’ vs > ‘hoarders paradise’ approaches as two opposing extremes, as much as > deciding on what a reasonable balance is? by perhaps defining some minimal > standards and routines. > > Since standards decided upon can always be changed later, we might > embrace new approaches like the experiment that they are, without them > feeling too fraught or set in stone, a la the ‘RERO’ truism (release early, > release often). By the same token the earlier hacker truism that seems far > less in vogue these days, but I think particularly relevant to our approach > here about structuring space, is GIGO (garbage in, garbage out). > > Best, > David > > On Sun, Feb 20, 2022 at 07:36 Andrew R Gross via sudo-discuss < > sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org&gt; wrote: > >> I would like to discuss this in real-time, ideally face to face, for >> those available. *Who can join me tomorrow (Monday) night at 8:30 pm?* >> >> On Sat, Feb 19, 2022, 9:21 PM Eric O'Connor via sudo-discuss < >> sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org&gt; wrote: >> >>> There is a lot of talk about what policy changes should be made, and >>> what Sudo *should not* be like. I think consensus works best when you go >>> from current situation > future situation > goals/motives > plans > >>> execution. >>> >>> So, having more or less established that the current situation is not >>> ideal, could we talk about what SudoRoom *should be* in the future? If >>> people can agree on that, I think the policies might be more clear. >>> >>> >>> To me, a hackerspace is useful because it has a bunch of great people >>> and tools and materials that I don’t have access to at my own home. >>> >>> 1) I can learn things from people, whether through casual interactions, >>> shared projects, and/or organized classes >>> 2) Sharing tools and space, and acquiring materials in bulk means >>> everyone can have cheaper access overall >>> 3) The community energy is inspiring and focusing. I want to do cool >>> things when I’m hanging with people who do cool things. >>> 4-?) ??? add your thing here >>> >>> In terms of motives, goals, fears, etc: >>> >>> If I understand correctly, Jake is saying that curating tools and >>> materials is an important function of a Hackerspace — i.e. to enable (2) — >>> and that doing so requires significant effort. >>> >>> Again, if I understand correctly, Yar, Andrew, and others are saying >>> that a cluttered space inhibits (1) and (3). >>> >>> To add a fear of my own: materials (and to a lesser extent tools, which >>> are often consumable — drill bits, grinding wheels, etc.) cost money/time, >>> and are often not maintained/replaced when they’re shared. >>> >>> >>> It seems like the solution is to decide on a vision for what future >>> SudoRoom should be like. If you show up at SudoRoom on any given day, what >>> tools, materials, and people would you want to have access to? If we agree >>> on that, the plan should be easier to come up with, and people will be more >>> motivated to actually do it. >>> >>> >>> Eric >>> >>> > On Feb 19, 2022, at 15:19, Jake via sudo-discuss < >>> sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org&gt; wrote: >>> > >>> > On Sat, 19 Feb 2022, Alexander Papazoglou wrote: >>> > >>> >> I don't have any concrete suggestions other than finding a way to >>> make >>> >> stuff transit though sudoroom in a more orderly fashion. Like with >>> planned >>> >> events, maybe in concert with other hackerspaces. But I'm probably >>> just >>> >> echoing Joule's sentiments there. >>> > >>> > I listed concrete suggestions: I said "come and get involved, spend >>> time >>> > understanding what we have and why, and make an impact." >>> > >>> >> However, I think saying that people who don't like the space as it >>> is should >>> >> just go elsewhere is not good policy. >>> > >>> > I understand that that's what people are interpreting from my email, >>> and that >>> > is not what I meant. I tried to be clear but I realize that it >>> didn't work. >>> > >>> > I was saying that people who want an empty room should not try to >>> make sudoroom >>> > into an empty room. There are other places for that, and I support >>> that, but >>> > like I said, sudoroom (to me) is a place where we have tools and >>> materials in >>> > addition to clear and clean workspace. >>> > >>> > And I wish that people didn't interpret my email as telling people >>> not to come >>> > to the space, when I repeatedly and clearly said that what we need is >>> for >>> > people to come to the space and help make it better. >>> > >>> >> Firstly it's exclusionary whereas the spirit of the space is meant >>> to be as >>> >> inclusive as reasonably possible, and secondly it selects for people >>> who have >>> >> high clutter, disgust and hazard tolerance thresholds. While I score >>> high on >>> >> those metrics, I would like the space to be open to people who >>> don't, and I >>> >> think we would benefit from having members on that side of the >>> "spectrum". We >>> >> don't need to make it a yoga studio, but it can be more like an >>> organized >>> >> shop, can't it? >>> >> >>> >> Alex >>> > >>> > yes, I agree with you 100%. And I think that the way to get there is >>> for more >>> > people to come to the space and contribute to making it nicer. You >>> and I have >>> > already been doing that and we will continue to do it. I am planning >>> to do a >>> > large e-waste run soon (in the next couple of weeks) and I put work >>> into >>> > preparing that every tuesday night after people leave. >>> > >>> > I understand that my previous email was pretty long and didn't >>> succeed in >>> > getting through what I was trying to say. >>> > >>> > I think that it would be really nice to have the space clean and >>> organized and >>> > inviting, and the way we will do that is by people coming into the >>> space and >>> > cleaning and organizing it. There is no substitute for that, and >>> people who >>> > think that turning away donations (which have supplied literally >>> everything in >>> > sudoroom) are mistaken, and their suggestions harm us and don't help >>> anything. >>> > >>> > -jake >>> > >>> >> On Sat, Feb 19, 2022 at 12:24 AM Jake via sudo-discuss < >>> sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org&gt; wrote: >>> >> >>> >>> I see what I feel are pretty harsh condemnations of something I >>> think is an >>> >>> important part of hackerspaces/makerspaces like our sudoroom. >>> >>> >>> >>> I've been hosting tuesday nights at sudoroom for a while now, and >>> trying to >>> >>> get people back into coming to the space and making use of it. We >>> make use >>> >>> of a lot of different tools and supplies in the space, to build >>> things, >>> >>> repair things, and ideate. We also make use of swaths of blank >>> space on the >>> >>> tables. >>> >>> >>> >>> There is a spectrum of interest in the kind of hardware tools and >>> materials >>> >>> we have in sudoroom. Some people are very comfortable surrounded >>> by the >>> >>> many kinds of electronic and other bits we have, even though >>> they're far >>> >>> from organized the way we would like them to be. >>> >>> >>> >>> Other people have zero interest, and would be most at home in an >>> empty room >>> >>> with nothing but clean blank tables, good even lighting, and no >>> visual >>> >>> clutter, like a nice yoga studio. Those people should definitely >>> have that, >>> >>> and I encourage them to start with the disco room! It's almost >>> there, >>> >>> although the floor is a little too "busy" but it could be coated >>> with carpet >>> >>> or something. >>> >>> >>> >>> It would be a mistake for the second kind of people to entirely >>> fail to >>> >>> understand the value of the materials we have, when the real issue >>> is that >>> >>> we've faced a lack of human resources to curate the space. >>> >>> >>> >>> materials, computers, monitors, TVBGones, monitors, soldering irons, >>> >>> monitors, printers, broken laptops, power supplies, oscilloscopes, >>> 3D >>> >>> printers, and random stuff. >>> >>> >>> >>> Literally everything in sudoroom at this point has been a donation: >>> the >>> >>> laser cutter, the tables, the light fixtures over the north half of >>> the room >>> >>> (I salvaged them from an abandoned building, brought them and >>> helped install >>> >>> them) >>> >>> >>> >>> yes, we get a lot of stuff that is not something we want to keep. >>> The first >>> >>> thing that comes to mind is "printers" but a notable exception was >>> when >>> >>> recently Hilary was able to score a useful and working printer from >>> the main >>> >>> tables that had been dropped off just a few weeks earlier, by one of >>> >>> Sudoroom's long-lost co-founders. >>> >>> >>> >>> What keeps Sudoroom from being unusable due to too much clutter, as >>> some >>> >>> people have reasonably claimed about the space recently? A lack of >>> >>> contributing effort. Joule contributed tons of effort in the past, >>> and >>> >>> hauled off lots of stuff (although they are also the source of many >>> things >>> >>> we still have) >>> >>> >>> >>> I have been putting hours every tuesday night (after others go >>> home) sorting >>> >>> what we have, cleaning up, and preparing to make a big e-waste >>> run. I've >>> >>> also given away lots of "donations" to people who would give them a >>> good >>> >>> home, and i've even sold a few things (all money goes to sudoroom) >>> and i'll >>> >>> do it again. >>> >>> >>> >>> Today, perhaps thanks to my encouragement, Ian gathered our huge >>> excess of >>> >>> monitors and sorted them according to which ones we should keep, >>> and the >>> >>> rest of them will be donated to https://techexchange.org which is >>> an >>> >>> organization that distributes computers to low-income families in >>> Oakland. >>> >>> Why didn't our excess of monitors get donated to them sooner? >>> Because it >>> >>> requires human labor, and the pandemic has had us basically closed >>> for two >>> >>> years. >>> >>> >>> >>> If you want to help sudoroom be a better place; less cluttered, more >>> >>> inviting, then come and get involved, spend time understanding what >>> we have >>> >>> and why, and make an impact. But please don't be reactionary and >>> wish for a >>> >>> blank and empty space, or whatever minimalist vision you have in >>> mind that >>> >>> doesn't align with the spirit of material hacking and creativity >>> that the >>> >>> space was founded on. >>> >>> >>> >>> -jake >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org >>> > To unsubscribe send an email to sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org >>> > More options at >>> https://sudoroom.org/lists/postorius/lists/sudo-discuss.sudoroom.org/ >>> > This message archived at >>> https://sudoroom.org/lists/hyperkitty/list/sudo-discuss@sudoroom.org/messag… >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org >>> To unsubscribe send an email to sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org >>> More options at >>> https://sudoroom.org/lists/postorius/lists/sudo-discuss.sudoroom.org/ >>> This message archived at >>> https://sudoroom.org/lists/hyperkitty/list/sudo-discuss@sudoroom.org/messag… >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org >> More options at >> https://sudoroom.org/lists/postorius/lists/sudo-discuss.sudoroom.org/ >> This message archived at >> https://sudoroom.org/lists/hyperkitty/list/sudo-discuss@sudoroom.org/messag… > >

"think that it would be really nice to have the space clean and organized and inviting, and the way we will do that is by people coming into the space and cleaning and organizing it.  There is no substitute for that, and people who think that turning away donations (which have supplied literally everything in sudoroom) are mistaken, and their suggestions harm us and don't help anything." Jake, David, and Sarah: Two nights ago, as I was leaving, I saw a large rat, run down the hall past the restroom, towards the front room. Last night I saw the same rat run from the beige couch in the entrance hall, to the far side of the building, and as I was leaving, the rat ran from the far side of the building towards the Beige couch. You have rats and food. Two nights in a row. You can have a professional exterminator come and remove it, or you can wait until the health department closes all food operations down. If you want to ever have a commercial kitchen, ( Which I have worked in) you need to handle pests professionally. ( Which my former roommate worked for Clarke ). Or any time you ask for a permit, the health department will ask to see your extermination bills and records, which makes some commercial kitchens, not viable, and they either have to shut down, or they never get started. The Town fridge needs a clean up in front of the building. There is food spread all over, THE FRONT OF THE BUILDING. Remember the neighbors who complained about the front steps? Also, another toaster was removed, I will be emptying SuDo Rooms trash tonight. So, Jake is out of town, and these problems, and gone from a concern, to urgent, to Emergency. This is what happens when you ignore problems, If a rat bites someone, ( because it is now living in the front entrance hall) Do you understand the consequences of not doing anything? There are currently places that I can point out where rats are moving into the walls. The hole I saw has enlarged since last night. Here are some suggestions: Have David, put out as many commercial traps, and get some exclusion material. Install today, not tomorrow, or the next day: When Sudo room had a mice problem, that I noticed, I put traps out that day. When Counter Culture Labs had a mouse, they put out traps immediately. AVN keeps all food off the floor. They are meticulous about it. Here is the alternative: You really never want a kitchen, and you want the fate of the Redstone building in San Francisco to repeat: "San Francisco's Redstone Building sells below..." ( reduced from $22M to $7M. a 69% Devaluation. ) Most probably because of unabated pests. Could the OMNI survive a 69% devaluation? "Nov 19, 2021 — Despite years of advocacy to keep the historic Redstone Building in community hands, the building has been sold to a real estate company" When you are flying a 747, another 747 flying at you, looks like a tiny dot, until It gets really big, and then you are dead. On Saturday, February 19, 2022, 03:19:34 PM PST, Jake via sudo-discuss &lt;sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org&gt; wrote: On Sat, 19 Feb 2022, Alexander Papazoglou wrote: planned I listed concrete suggestions: I said "come and get involved, spend time understanding what we have and why, and make an impact." _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss mailing list --sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org To unsubscribe send an email tosudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org More options athttps://sudoroom.org/lists/postorius/lists/sudo-discuss.sudoroom.org/

"think that it would be really nice to have the space clean and organized and inviting, and the way we will do that is by people coming into the space and cleaning and organizing it. There is no substitute for that, and people who think that turning away donations (which have supplied literally everything in sudoroom) are mistaken, and their suggestions harm us and don't help anything." Jake, David, and Sarah: Two nights ago, as I was leaving, I saw a large rat, run down the hall past the restroom, towards the front room. Last night I saw the same rat run from the beige couch in the entrance hall, to the far side of the building, and as I was leaving, the rat ran from the far side of the building towards the Beige couch. You have rats and food. Two nights in a row. You can have a professional exterminator come and remove it, or you can wait until the health department closes all food operations down. If you want to ever have a commercial kitchen, ( Which I have worked in) you need to handle pests professionally. ( Which my former roommate worked for Clarke ). Or any time you ask for a permit, the health department will ask to see your extermination bills and records, which makes some commercial kitchens, not viable, and they either have to shut down, or they never get started. The Town fridge needs a clean up in front of the building. There is food spread all over, THE FRONT OF THE BUILDING. Remember the neighbors who complained about the front steps? Also, another toaster was removed, I will be emptying SuDo Rooms trash tonight. So, Jake is out of town, and these problems, and gone from a concern, to urgent, to Emergency. This is what happens when you ignore problems, If a rat bites someone, ( because it is now living in the front entrance hall) Do you understand the consequences of not doing anything? There are currently places that I can point out where rats are moving into the walls. The hole I saw has enlarged since last night. Here are some suggestions: Have David, put out as many commercial traps, and get some exclusion material. Install today, not tomorrow, or the next day: When Sudo room had a mice problem, that I noticed, I put traps out that day. When Counter Culture Labs had a mouse, they put out traps immediately. AVN keeps all food off the floor. They are meticulous about it. Here is the alternative: You really never want a kitchen, and you want the fate of the Redstone building in San Francisco to repeat: "San Francisco's Redstone Building sells below..." ( reduced from $22M to $7M. a 69% Devaluation. ) Most probably because of unabated pests. Could the OMNI survive a 69% devaluation? "Nov 19, 2021 — Despite years of advocacy to keep the historic Redstone Building in community hands, the building has been sold to a real estate company" When you are flying a 747, another 747 flying at you, looks like a tiny dot, until It gets really big, and then you are dead. On Saturday, February 19, 2022, 03:19:34 PM PST, Jake via sudo-discuss < sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org&gt; wrote: On Sat, 19 Feb 2022, Alexander Papazoglou wrote: planned I listed concrete suggestions: I said "come and get involved, spend time understanding what we have and why, and make an impact."

Thanks, Sarah!! (and lol re: rodent-inclusivity..) Adding the list back to this earlier reply I sent re: traps: I bought 4-5 nice electric traps back in 2019 (much more humane to kill via electrocution than snaptraps). They take C (or maybe D?) batteries. I bought rechargeable batteries for them, as well as a battery charger that accommodates all types of rechargeable batteries. ^ these electric traps are the Rat Zappers in boxes that Sarah mentioned. Unsure about status of rechargeable batteries and battery charger. On 2/23/22 11:57, Sarah Lockhart via sudo-discuss wrote: Just FYI -- I just ordered the hardware cloth to rat-proof under the stage of the ballroom. There should be some left over that can be put in omni's toolroom and used for various sites where we need to more emphatically demonstrate that we are not a rodent-inclusive building On Wed, Feb 23, 2022 at 9:59 AM Ian C &lt;icumming2020(a)yahoo.com&gt; wrote: _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org To unsubscribe send an email to sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org More options at https://sudoroom.org/lists/postorius/lists/sudo-discuss.sudoroom.org/ _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org To unsubscribe send an email to sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org More options at https://sudoroom.org/lists/postorius/lists/sudo-discuss.sudoroom.org/

(Copying the building list on this as well) We may want to consider covering the walls of the trash room in FRP, especially since our lab space is right on the other side of the back wall... Patrik On Wed, Feb 23, 2022 at 3:37 PM David Keenan via sudo-discuss < sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org&gt; wrote: _______________________________________________ building mailing list building(a)lists.omnicommons.org https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/building

Not a bad idea re FRP, patrik. That would also make trash room walls cleanable, which would be nice. The trash room has a really high fire load - so much cardboard etc, & features the exposed underside of an unrated wooden stair, interior-facing wooden siding, etc. Therefore, this room could also really use some DW under the stair, and also I think that ceiling + wall areas in this room which are not finished in FRP should ideally have 2 coats of our intumescent paint, which we still have a lot of.. (There’s a special application for intumescent paint - the layers / mils must be pretty exact - but it ain’t rocket science). The combination of the above would lead to not only a more rat-proof, but a more cleanable and fire-safe trash room as well. (Ps. Sarah, btw - FRP = fiberglass reinforced panels, not paint) Best, David On Wed, Feb 23, 2022 at 17:04 Sarah Lockhart &lt;sarah.ee.el(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > I believe that paint is with the other paint in the basement. In case > someone wants to do a Malevich tribute > > SL > > On Wed, Feb 23, 2022 at 4:42 PM Patrik D'haeseleer &lt;patrikd(a)gmail.com&gt; > wrote: > >> (Copying the building list on this as well) >> >> We may want to consider covering the walls of the trash room in FRP, >> especially since our lab space is right on the other side of the back >> wall... >> >> Patrik >> >> On Wed, Feb 23, 2022 at 3:37 PM David Keenan via sudo-discuss < >> sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org&gt; wrote: >> >>> We also need to rat-proof the trash room from the disco room’s ground >>> floor stair landing side. >>> >>> On Wed, Feb 23, 2022 at 12:15 Jenny Ryan via sudo-discuss < >>> sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org&gt; wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks, Sarah!! (and lol re: rodent-inclusivity..) >>>> >>>> Adding the list back to this earlier reply I sent re: traps: >>>> >>>> I bought 4-5 nice electric traps back in 2019 (much more humane to >>>> kill via electrocution than snaptraps). They take C (or maybe D?) >>>> batteries. I bought rechargeable batteries for them, as well as a battery >>>> charger that accommodates all types of rechargeable batteries. >>>> >>>> ^ these electric traps are the Rat Zappers in boxes that Sarah >>>> mentioned. Unsure about status of rechargeable batteries and battery >>>> charger. >>>> >>> On 2/23/22 11:57, Sarah Lockhart via sudo-discuss wrote: >>>> >>> Just FYI -- I just ordered the hardware cloth to rat-proof under the >>>> stage of the ballroom. There should be some left over that can be put in >>>> omni's toolroom and used for various sites where we need to more >>>> emphatically demonstrate that we are not a rodent-inclusive building >>>> >>>> On Wed, Feb 23, 2022 at 9:59 AM Ian C &lt;icumming2020(a)yahoo.com&gt; wrote: >>>> >>>>> "think that it would be really nice to have the space clean and >>>>> organized and >>>>> inviting, and the way we will do that is by people coming into the >>>>> space and >>>>> cleaning and organizing it. There is no substitute for that, and >>>>> people who >>>>> think that turning away donations (which have supplied literally >>>>> everything in >>>>> sudoroom) are mistaken, and their suggestions harm us and don't help >>>>> anything." >>>>> >>>>> Jake, David, and Sarah: >>>>> Two nights ago, as I was leaving, I saw a large rat, run down the >>>>> hall past the restroom, >>>>> towards the front room. >>>>> Last night I saw the same rat run from the beige couch in the >>>>> entrance hall, >>>>> to the far side of the building, and as I was leaving, the rat ran >>>>> from >>>>> the far side of the building towards the Beige couch. >>>>> >>>>> You have rats and food. >>>>> Two nights in a row. >>>>> >>>>> You can have a professional exterminator come and remove it, >>>>> or you can wait until the health department closes all food >>>>> operations down. >>>>> If you want to ever have a commercial kitchen, ( Which I have worked >>>>> in) >>>>> you need to handle pests professionally. ( Which my former roommate >>>>> worked for Clarke ). >>>>> Or any time you ask for a permit, the health department will ask to >>>>> see your extermination bills and records, which makes some commercial >>>>> kitchens, >>>>> not viable, and they either have to shut down, or they never get >>>>> started. >>>>> >>>>> The Town fridge needs a clean up in front of the building. >>>>> There is food spread all over, >>>>> THE FRONT OF THE BUILDING. >>>>> Remember the neighbors who complained about the front steps? >>>>> Also, another toaster was removed, >>>>> I will be emptying SuDo Rooms trash tonight. >>>>> >>>>> So, Jake is out of town, and these problems, >>>>> and gone from a concern, to urgent, to Emergency. >>>>> This is what happens when you ignore problems, >>>>> >>>>> If a rat bites someone, >>>>> ( because it is now living in the front entrance hall) >>>>> Do you understand the consequences of not doing anything? >>>>> >>>>> There are currently places that I can point out where rats are moving >>>>> into the walls. >>>>> The hole I saw has enlarged since last night. >>>>> >>>>> Here are some suggestions: >>>>> Have David, put out as many commercial traps, and get some exclusion >>>>> material. >>>>> Install today, not tomorrow, or the next day: >>>>> When Sudo room had a mice problem, that I noticed, >>>>> I put traps out that day. >>>>> When Counter Culture Labs had a mouse, >>>>> they put out traps immediately. >>>>> AVN keeps all food off the floor. >>>>> They are meticulous about it. >>>>> >>>>> Here is the alternative: >>>>> You really never want a kitchen, >>>>> and you want the fate of the Redstone building in San Francisco to >>>>> repeat: >>>>> "San Francisco's Redstone Building sells below..." >>>>> ( reduced from $22M to $7M. a 69% Devaluation. ) >>>>> Most probably because of unabated pests. >>>>> Could the OMNI survive a 69% devaluation? >>>>> >>>>> "Nov 19, 2021 — Despite years of advocacy >>>>> to keep the historic Redstone Building in community hands, >>>>> the building has been sold to a real estate company" >>>>> >>>>> When you are flying a 747, another 747 flying at you, >>>>> looks like a tiny dot, until It gets really big, and then you are >>>>> dead. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Saturday, February 19, 2022, 03:19:34 PM PST, Jake via >>>>> sudo-discuss &lt;sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org&gt; wrote: >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022, Alexander Papazoglou wrote: >>>>> >>>>> > I don't have any concrete suggestions other than finding a way to >>>>> make >>>>> > stuff transit though sudoroom in a more orderly fashion. Like with >>>>> planned >>>>> > events, maybe in concert with other hackerspaces. But I'm probably >>>>> just >>>>> > echoing Joule's sentiments there. >>>>> >>>>> I listed concrete suggestions: I said "come and get involved, spend >>>>> time >>>>> understanding what we have and why, and make an impact." >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org >>>> More options at https://sudoroom.org/lists/postorius/lists/sudo-discuss.sudoroom.org/ >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org >>>> More options at >>>> https://sudoroom.org/lists/postorius/lists/sudo-discuss.sudoroom.org/ >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org >>> To unsubscribe send an email to sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org >>> More options at >>> https://sudoroom.org/lists/postorius/lists/sudo-discuss.sudoroom.org/ >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> building mailing list >> building(a)lists.omnicommons.org >> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/building >> >

On Sat, Feb 19, 2022 at 12:24 AM Jake via sudo-discuss &lt;sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org&gt; wrote: the space. and make an impact Jake! Please hear yourself and think about what you're saying! "Come join Sudoroom so we can set you to work cleaning up after a bunch of manchildren" is a doomed sales pitch. Why would anybody take that job??? This is magical thinking of the worst kind. It makes me sorry that I ever washed a single dish back when we had a kitchen sink that anybody wanted to use. The problem is an entrenched culture that seems to require constant invisible labor from magic pixie unicorns, not the lack of said unicorns. Good fucking lord. _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org To unsubscribe send an email to sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org More options at https://sudoroom.org/lists/postorius/lists/sudo-discuss.sudoroom.org/ This message archived at https://sudoroom.org/lists/hyperkitty/list/sudo-discuss@sudoroom.org/messag…

I'm not in agreement that sudoroom's interaction with e-waste equals cancer, but I'm very sorry that you're having to deal with a skin tumor, i'm sure that's very stressful. As for the e-waste at sudoroom, I'm planning to do an e-waste run after a session of sorting with another sudoer, within the next two weeks. I did recently help fix and sell the fridge and earned sudoroom $210 while clearing up some space.  I have also been putting hours of work into sorting ewaste and moving things along and out of the space, every tuesday night. -jake On Fri, 18 Feb 2022, Yardena Cohen via sudo-discuss wrote: _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org To unsubscribe send an email to sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org

I agree with adam and have the following suggestions: - the dedicated e-waste container should be situated on a pallet capable of being easily moved by the sudo’s pallet jack. The container should be relatively durable, ie iat least of the double-walled cardboard made to cart around dirt. - when it is full, we agree to offer a bounty on the sudo list ($25/hr?) for removal to CTRC, or for example arrange for Lukas (with his lift gate truck) to dispose for a set fee. - for when there are really big loads: The Computer & Technology Resource Center (ewastecollective.org) are pretty dedicated toward re-use. For pickup outside of berkeley, usually it’s $100/trip (though disposal at their location is usually free). However once they checked out omni - as I had multiple 10-yard pallets to move out of omni recently - they said they’d consider doing it for free next time given our mission and since we’re pretty close to berkeley. So, we might hit them back up on that. - I do think the most important near-term task is going through all of sudo’s stuff and culling it to kind of ‘get back to zero’, and so future e-waste runs will be easier and more modest in scope. I’m happy to assist with that but I’d need someone more in touch with active projects at sudo to safely do that with. (I feel like the mesh cage might be a good place to start, at least getting it a bit tidier?) My 2c David On Fri, Feb 18, 2022 at 16:16 Jenny Ryan via sudo-discuss < sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org&gt; wrote: